Dream Subliminals

In a day and age where neuro physiology and neuromarketings (subliminal influencing) is becoming more and more of a reality it is more than ever imperative for us to understand at the very least the basics of brain physiology and how it relates to how we interact with our environment. The technology to subliminate individuals is here and it is necessary to know that it is indeed possible and not science fiction.

Advertising is essentially proof of this -Proof That The Advertising Industry Is A Form Of Mind Control Part 2

What should be considered is that we are in a day and age where information is
transmitted and interacted with at a rate that has never occurred before in our
history. But what hasn't changed is the fact that our brains have evolved to take in
stimulii from our environment and use that information as a basis for future decision making behaviours.

This thread is intended to interact with the process of dreaming and how that
information is filed. And how it can be manipulated. And how the future may
concievably manipulate it. This thread is intended to explore the physiological
process of dreams, verify that Subliminals do indeed work (when used correctly) and that it is possible for dreams to be influenced by external stimulii...to the
extent that people can (and may have already) manipulated the thoughts,
behaviours and activity of other people.

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Let's first establish the dream process....

Dreams are a biological process. In fact, you wouldn't be able to live if the dream
process didn't occur every night (more or less). But what do dreams do? And can
dreams possibly be influenced by external stimulii while one is sleeping? While there are many dream theories, most of which I think can be melded together if
some of the rhetoric was corrected, I think that the basic premise that dreams are a process intended to allocate recent experience into associative long term memory. Of course, due to habitual behaviour and the strength of attention given to recent experience, the allocation of recent experience is going to be somewhat jumbled (which would explain why dreams are seemingly 'random' in effect).

Think of how the brain interacts with memory and experience. The physical aspects are chemical in nature and rely on chemical/electrical modes of communication within the body (neuron/synaptic/glial 'storage centers'). What this tells us is that memory and experience is assigned a chemical signature of sorts. The resulting communication to the central nervous system (hormonal release and inclined physical reaction) is based on how that experience was interpreted in the past and provides a foundation for how an individual will react to similar situations in the future. This basic expression also necessarily implicates that some inclined behaviours are genetic in nature and are passed from the parents to the offspring but that is another thread...

So experience gets assigned chemical attributes which then get lumped together
and form, for lack of better terminology, associative chains. Dreams are the process of allocating experience to memory. The hippocampus is believed to a part of the area where memory is stored; indeed "long term potentiation" (believed to be the "neural mechanism by which memory is stored in the brain", was first 'discovered' by the study of the hippocampal area. [1].



While this fact is currently de facto, an interesting aspect of its' location in the
brain is that it is next to the amygdala.



Please pay attention to the emphasized.

Now...we have established, effectively if briefly, that the hippocampus is implicated
in long term memory (really, I think that long term memory is more of a wide
spread physical phenomena and implicit in the function of each neuron) and as well we have just established that the amgdala, which is situated next to the hippocampus region, helps determine the type of 'signals' that get communicated to the central nervous system...determining the emotions we feel and the type of physical reactions that we are inclined to use as response to a situation.

The placement of these regions in relation to each other is illustrated in the
following -



I propose that the positioning of these two regions of the brain indicate that they are reliant upon each other for the communication of recent (and long term depending on individual routines) experience to the central nervous
sytem...essentially keeping the body in line with the brains reaction/interpretation of experience for the survival of the individual. In fact, The Limbic System can be
charachterized as the consolidation and reactionary distribution of the information
collected by the rest of the brain (I am sure that I am over simplifying but I think
that is a sufficient summary for now).

Now the dream process is where we 'download' experience into memory and the
amygdala draws from the associative memory to help determine physical reaction to subsequent experience.

How does this relate to Subliminals?

First...let us briefly establish that subliminals are indeed effective...if used correctly.
Subliminal Research Project Post 1

Subliminal Reasearch Project Post 2 (Essentially proving that subliminals can influence the reactions and potential behviours of humans

For those who don't go through the above links, the following excerpt is very
important to this topic:


Subliminal Learning Demonstrated In Human Brain

So it is indeed proven that subliminals can be effective...but only if they are
corrolated to the individual's inclination. For exammple, a nervous person will react more strongly to subliminals intended to induce anxiety. Happy individuals will react more strongly to subliminals intended to induce comfort.

On to Dream Subliminals.

What if subliminal messaging were used during the dream process? Could this
inflect the behaviour of an individual? Could dream subliminals be used to control
an individual?

To an extent, I believe that the answer is yes.

See, if subliminals are given to an individual during the dream process then it
would supposedly follow that these subliminals would piggy back to the
associative allocations of experience (I actually have issue with the time frame of
this process; I think that subliminals in the dream process would be considered
experience by the brain and won't necessarily be involved in the 'download
process' until the next dream cycle) and inflect the memory of experience if the
subliminals were custom tailored to induce a specific and consistent emotive reaction.

I have experienced, in 2001, a situation where I slept through a radio alarm. Before I woke up, I dreamed of the Yankees winning one of their Playoff or World
Series games. In the dream, I dreamt of a catch and heard the score of the game. Upon awakening, I recalled this and knew that the Yankees had won the previous night...because I had heard it from the radio. The process of recall was such that I was visulaizing the descriptions of one of the plays that had occurred.

So through subjective experience, I know that there is a level of recall given to
the experience of external stimulii while dreaming.

Now...there are threads on this site that suggest that there are already satellites in place to start communicating subliminally.

US govt mind control

Military AI Supercomputer Mind Monitoring: What I have learned

And to a lesser extent...

Can the brain learn to "read" radio waves???...this thread begs the question of whether or not the brain can evolve to recognize the content of radio/cellular waves...

The above threads suggest that there are already millions of dollars that have been spent to provide the equipment by which to accomplish surriptitious remote influencing. And if one has experienced it overtly while conscious then it stands to reason that there is interaction during the dream state...unconscious interaction.

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It's a work in progress but I know I am tripping up on a few points...as well as the flow of the thread. My point is to provide some physiological foundation for the idea of Dream Subliminals. I know that the implementation of dream subliminals couldn't possibly be one hundred percent effective at this point in our comprehension but there is reason to believe that they can have an effect.

And at this point, given the rate of discovery and the amount of research that is going on, it is irresponsible for the conspiracy theorist to not keep up, to not make an attempt to learn more about oneself and why so much money has been spent to learn about how the brain processes information and why the government has spent time on the MK projects.

It is irresponsible to not look into the reason why so many patents have been submitted and approved for the remote influencing of behaviour.

This is ATS...and it is time for us as a conspiracy theory community to raise the bar. Let us understand ourselves prior to pondering the social issues that the mainstream media provides for our consumption.

Dream Subliminals...what say ye ATS?

reply to post by MemoryShock

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Interesting topic.

If we can watch a subliminal contained within an advertisement and it effects us even although we are unaware of the message. If we can dream numerous amounts of dreams every single day and forget the majority of them.

What's to say that certain dreams might not have subliminal effects contained within them from the input of the days gone by through the constant bombardment of our minds?

What's to say that we are being bombarded with influencial things during our sleep when we cannot remember the majority of what happens?

Fascinating subject.

I could not find this entire video but the one I have posted was after these media advertising employees took a journey that was full of subliminal messages that they were not aware had been placed for a specific reason. This shows that even the people who design subliminals are susceptible to the effects and that is quite worrying because even a trained eye can fail to notice.

YouTube Link

I wonder if this can be done in a way such as..

Person A has habits such as walking his dog everyday, place different pieces of a message throughout their journey on various advertising boards, after a specific period of time would the person connect all of the message through dreams and relevant scenarios etc? If this worked, think of it on a mass scale with pieces of certain messages all within radiuses that equal similar messages and wow!

I know I have not covered all the angles you posted but there is a lot of different angles to look at with subliminals in my opinion.

Cheers.



[edit on 10-11-2009 by XXXN3O]

I just scanned your post, and I understand what you are heading with your opinion.

HOWEVER, you are completely unaware of what really happens.

Don't look at other people, but look at yourself. Think about when you dream.

For me, I do not dream about companies when I get bombarded with advertisements during a tv commercial or internet ads. I do not dream and NEVER HAVE DREAMED of a company, EVER!

I dream things that are important are extremely significant in my life and what iimpacts me! Sometimes, my mind comes up with its own senarios.

I am short of time right now and I need to go, but I will continue my thought later by editting this post.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by fordrew]

Funny. I started this thread specifically to iron out my awareness of the physiological process that the brain goes through...so as to create a balance for my more subjective analysis of dreams.

I am not suggesting that we dream of corporations...in fact, the success of a corporation is not to sell you on them but to associate themselves with a good feeling (in some cases negativity helps but that is another thread).

In fact, most of my dreams are based on social situations (which suggests to me that my attention is on other people more often than not).

So with all due respect...I sincerely think that you may have misinterpreted the intent of this thread...and one of the main points that I was putting up for discussion is that dreams and their content can be influenced by external stimulii.

Flagged & Starred. Very interesting read. That does seem like something we should stay aware of, as it could very well be possible through some method or another.

However, I must question if it would be possible with radio/cellular waves. Would we not need some sort of built in (or implanted) receptor to receive the signals to be processed in the first place? Though I must admit I am no expert on such things, it was just the first thing that came to mind.

Exactly. And what if there was intent to that effect?



I am familiar with this video and thought it was an incredible example of manipulation. So we have an excellent example of how someone with intent can help determine the behaviour and expression of someone else!!



The idea is actually just an extension of how the brain assimilates information and allocates it to memory...the only difference is if intent were place upon the stimulii that Person A interacts.



I agree...many different angles and in my opinion this topic is one of the most important topics we as conspiracy theorists should be discussing.

This is approximately where the penultimate they are and we should be as up to date as possible (if they are further along then holy crap I have to catch up!!)...

Try finding out brainwave frequencies these days without coming across some healing sounds that can be heard by your ears or some form of distraction that is not answering the question in specifics. Im not saying sounds cannot create brainwaves of course.

You cannot hear brainwaves with your ears, obviously your body uses electrical currents to move that are created by brainwaves. The thing is, can a brain pick up a brainwave being passed through it?

Essentially what you need to find out is what surfaces can brainwaves pass through and how far can the be communicated.

If the answer to that is that they can be transported beyond the range of a skull etc along with being able to transport through various sufaces etc then you would not need any built in reciever other than a brain for it to take effect without you even knowing or anyone.

If this is the case then that would open the floodgates for a mass of possibilities.

I mean, we could actually live in a world like this and even a certain bit of speech or type of frequency could wake you up to its reality...

YouTube Link

We would never know until your realised and then anyone else who was unaware would be living in a dream world.



[edit on 10-11-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by MemoryShock

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What do people react to in similar groups.

Look at any city where people walk in mass at specific times, normally 8am to 9am during weekdays and you will notice that almost everyone looks at the same buildings, monuments, reads the same news outlets, buys the same thing for breakfast everyday in the same store, takes the same route even when walking, checks their watches at the same time everyday. I could go on but I am sure you get the picture and if not, take a walk in your nearest city during rush our and stop to look around at the masses because they copycat.

People are very similar to each other when it comes to behaviour patterns as opposed to peronality but personality is not the thing in question it is interaction. Interaction is what everyone is similar to each other with at certain times of day.

I hope that makes sense.

Ever walked straight into a crowd of shoppers who were looking at a line of clothes? It usually breaks there attention and they walk to something else or leave the store, its like they are brainwashed.

Ever stood at a monument in a city and simply pointed up to the sky, everyone will come upto you and look into the sky. This will even work in a rush hour crowd bang in the middle of it.

Its amazing how sleepy we all are and everyone is unaware of how influenced we can be and given that I bet we are.

The reason I say cities is because I am from the country and I have never tried it in the country but I bet it would still work, bet that would make some interesting videos actually.



Edit: I edit my posts often as I often think of things to add

[edit on 10-11-2009 by XXXN3O]

It makes perfect sense. Now consider that this attention to routine and social construct necessarily requires either a limited worldview or a limited education...and what essentially results is a group of people who are unaware to what is really happening to them.

But I would like one to consider, at least for a moment, an individual who isn't in the rat race. Could dream subliminals be a viable strategy for behavioural modification?

Very fascinating, well researched and put together theories there my friend. The subconscious mind often tends to utilize dreams to work out things that the conscious mind sometimes has not come to grips with. Subliminal messages recorded by the subconscious mind during the waking moments of the day and evening would be likely
to subsequently come into play in our dreams as a means to more fully communicate with the conscious mind the
ideas and notions imparted.

Subliminal messages received during the dream state would be very powerful indeed.

Our minds seem to act as receivers in more ways than we consciously understand and acknowledge but in ways science is beginning to become more and more adept at understanding. Just what all the mind is capable of receiving
in the way of external stimuli is not something most people are fully or consciously aware of.

Electronics like Computers, TV’s, Refrigerators, Air-Conditioners and Cellular phones all operate on electricity much like we as humans contain and operate on electronic charge. The vibrating hum of the electrical charge all these appliances uses is audible but not discernable beyond a hum. It creates a static electric field as well as an impulse. Microwave Transmitters, Cell Phone Towers and even safe wireless electric transmissions permeate the area around us. They are barely noticeable and indiscernible to the conscious mind but what about the subconscious mind?

Some nights before going to bed I will actually experiment and unplug every electronic device in the house, even the refrigerator and air-conditioning system and turn off my cell phones and wireless devices before going to sleep.

What a difference and not only a noticeable one but a somewhat frightening ones. My dreams are much more vivid and lucid and full of strange details. Even before I start sleeping I can clearly hear other voices in my head. Could this be the subliminal broadcast from satellites or micro-wave towers I normally wouldn’t notice because of the distracting buzz of electronics in my conscious mind? I wonder. In fact I wonder a lot.

Fascinating subject my friend, it certainly warrants more delving into!

Star and flag!

I cant prove this obviously but just from what my opinion is, I would say that it really does not matter how educated or uneducated you are.

If you switch on a TV depending on where you are from, I am from the UK and often you see reports on the worry that knife crime will increase. To anyone who has had a high education etc this normally means to be wary of knife crime on the street. To an uneducated person this would mean, buy a knife as the streets are not safe. The result, an increase in knife crime that both can see on the streets and if not at first, after a while it will come given both sides meeting given both viewpoints created by the message.

The reason I mention the media is because the pictures that are given during reports are still subliminals even although they are right in your face as one example a picture of a youth holding a knife can mean many different things as I am sure you know.

I am not intending to change your topic here but just to show you exactly another point of view on the same thing here because its the exact same form of maniplutation, look at this logo....



This is the logo for the Cern project, if you look at it, it appears to contain 666 as a subliminal (would you have noticed if I did not mention?)
Many people are worried that this project could cause harm due to various media reports among certain scientific theories etc. Lets say this project is created as it is and kills millions or in other words is a complete disaster compared to what the project was created for.

Certain religious groups might say that the Cern project was forbbiden by God which strengthens their beliefs, most people would not notice the logo but rather focus on the story which could be used to propogate an agenda, conspiracy theorist might take the opinion that the Cern project was used to establish the correct population to implement a NWO, scientists who predicted a disaster would gain followers who would listen to their theories blindly and so on.

All the while nobody notices the logo but it was in your face the whole time just like the media stories are and other things are everyday. Then again that could be some other agenda. The thing is that right now we are facing an absolute bombardment of subliminals everywhere in life, its almost impossible to notice even if you try your damndest.

I know that is not dreams but what I am getting at is the fact that the only thing we can be aware of is what is front of us and if we cannot even remember dreams then how can we know but to look at what is in front of us while we are awake yet in some aspect asleep.

To put it simply, if we ever do get subliminals in dreams, whether from experiences while conscious or other means then we simply would not even stand a chance of being aware of them.

Its still bloody interesting

Theres so many angles that can be discussed as well...

YouTube Link

Can you say that you do not relate to the walk of life?

Just mentioning music. So much angles.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by XXXN3O

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I meant to say that the reality of such would induce or reinforce limited critical thought in response to...

Great Post though...



A great reason to start focusing on dreams and remembering them...

reply to post by MemoryShock

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MemoryShock, a very interesting topic for discussion for us here on ATS.

I remember learning that dreams are supposed to be our conscious and subconscious communicating with each other, according to what I learned this is the way our mind tells us there is something we saw while in a wakened state that we may have missed, or that there was literally an information overload and that our subconscious is where we have time to sift through it, analyze it, and reprocess it, thereby pulling back the curtain on the Oz Effect.

That fear is a driving factor has been established many times over, for the "fight or flight" mentality is something akin to all of us from an early age, from anywhere from being chased by our fathers with a belt when we just smashed mom's favorite coffee cup, on purpose, just to get attention, to learning to run from a dangerous animal, to even knowing when to walk away from a fight.

In the dream state, you can do anything, if you know that it is your reality, and you control it, and you can sift through the detritus of daily events, if only you know how to gain control, through maintaining that you are your own master.

For me the movie "The Matrix" was telling in that this movie was based on the ethereal world, the world between reality and the propaganda lies of whoever has an agenda to not want you to think freely, meaning you are in control of what you know through your own preconceived, or reconceived notions of how the world works.

Remembering the scene of "The Woman in the Red Dress" we must remember the lesson.

Is she real, or a misconceived threat, not yet known?



I believe that the lesson of the movie was that you need to pay attention and let your subconscious tell you what you really see, dreams or otherwise.

The Matrix : Woman in the Red Dress Scene

YouTube Link

Another movie which speaks of dreams and their meaning is "What Dreams May Come".

What Dreams May Come

YouTube Link

[edit on 10-11-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

This is an awesome write up, memory.

I agree that external stimuli throughout the day effects what occurs in our sub-conscience, not only when we are sleeping, but when we are awake.

I had something happen to me just about 5 weeks ago that shows the power of our daytime experiences on our nighttime mind-state. Even though it wasn't some form of intentional subliminal message, I think it brings home how powerful a thought can be - even when you're dead asleep.

As you may or may not know I have been dedicating my time to the Casey Anthony case and about a month and a half ago or so I got off on reading about Ted Bundy. I had never read about him in detail before. Suffice it to say that before I had finished my research I felt almost like I had been reading about the devil himself.

That night I had to go to bed like a little girl - with the light on. Things don't usually do that to me, but that night I just had a creeped out fear from the things I read. A couple of hours later, when I was SOUND and DEEP asleep, Springer came up to go to bed. The second he turned that light off I set straight up in bed and screamed bloody murder. I instantly had a flashing dream that I had been taken by this evil man and was buried alive. My mind had sensed the light going off, the deep darkness and had built this whole nightmare in a fraction of a second.

I do believe the stimuli around us through-out our day effects us in ways that some times only our dreams can make us aware of.

reply to post by MemoryShock

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"advertising is mind control"
( my statement )

I work in graphic & web design which in terms of services translates into marketing in many ways. Especially when doing advertisements, fliers, business cards, and of course websites. Anyone who proficiently practices design will tell you; training the viewer's eye to specific information in the sequence that you set up is of utmost importance. It's what creates a good advertisement or strong composition from the perspective of fine art.

Definitely "us" telling "you" what to "think" in a sense...

Just wanted to add that point

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That being said, yeah I think subliminals in dreams is fact for sure. Especially considering you're talking about subconscious communication of which dreams tend to be classified in. I'm sure many people have seen famous people, icons, symbols, etc in their dreams before. That essentially is one facet of the concept, but could someone actually pump specific messages into you while dreaming? I don't see why not, "spiritually" that is what is going on anyways and depending on how you feel about the concept of the "astral plane" or even the concept of the "collective conscious/unconscious" things can get conspiratorial on a pan dimensional/extra terrestrial kind of way

I know there are already devices that have been demonstrated that can be used to control people during a conscious state, I don't see why the same kind of thing couldn't happen during the unconscious state as well. Especially if you know what you're doing as far as subconscious communication goes.

I have quite a bit of experience with lucid dreaming and have seen how information is amalgamated into long term memory like you illustrated. It's a fascinating thing and you can see how we really do create our own reality through our perceptions.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Shakesbeer]

reply to post by Valhall

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Exactly the type of experience I think lead to these thoughts!!

Thank you for sharing...

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I want to respond to all of the posts but it is a lot of information and I want to let it all 'steep' a bit prior...

Thanks all for taking this seriously...

I know I’m a little late in the game here, but I’d like to throw these two coppers of personal experience in if I may:




Makes perfect sense.

When I lived in a prominent major city, I noticed after a while there were rouitnes and subroutines within the populations of the various metro areas - downtown held certain varieties, whereas my favorite haunts had a distinctly different demographic.

I fell neatly into routines of this nature on my own as well, mostly sitting in cafes writing and observing others on their respective day to day operations. Sure, it too a bit of time to get my routine together, but I eventually fell into somewhat predictable trends and behavior.




Again, very true. I discovered rather abruptly how sensitive things can get when normal day to day expectations are interrupted...all of a sudden your favorite art gallery has moved, the coffeeshop that was so comforting and familiar suddenly up and sells and is replaced by a fast-food chain....the list goes on and on.

I had the misfortune of losing so many places essential to my "routine sleepwalking" that I eventually had to move away from the city. I was confused, disorientated, isolated and no longer felt a "connection" to the region.



I wasn’t in the “rat race” back then, and I certainly am not now…but one thing I noticed from my transition from Big City to Small Town was whereas in the city, I didn’t have very profound dreams that I can recall.

Here in the small town, however, with limited access to the variety of distractions abundant in the city, I’m dreaming more powerfully, more profoundly and more lucidly that anytime before in my life.

Have the dreams compensated for the lack of those once comfortable city influences? Or are the dreams my way of dealing with and adjusting to my new and slower current influences? I think could be a bit of both, to be honest.

This thread is certainly Food for Thought....


*edit - clarity


[edit on 11/10/09 by GENERAL EYES]

Double Post. I blame the wireless connection...

[edit on Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:34:20 -0600 by MemoryShock]

I love that terminology and will use it in the future...



This is a very intersting thought and bears consideration.

The 'big city' life definitely has more stimulii to interact with and if we as individuals can't possibly interact with everything that happens around us then perhaps there is a greater level of subconscious attention placed upon the peripheral experience.

What a fascinating thought. If slower times mean more vivid dreams...Fascinating!!!

There is probably a major implication there.

Edit to finish my last sentence.

[edit on Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:32:45 -0600 by MemoryShock]

Double Post.

[edit on Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:32:11 -0600 by MemoryShock]