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Sharia Law, What If ...

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posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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This meant to be totally a "what if" discussion, and I am in no way advocating the following "what if" questions.

Muslims believe the sharia law supersedes all else. As recent tragic events continue to show us, this puts them and their sharia law on a collision course with Americans and the U.S. Constitution.

What if to protect our way of life, it became necessary to turn their own sharia law against the radical (maybe not all) muslims that would use sharia law to destroy this country and our way of life?

What if it became necessary for Americans to practice "an eye for an eye, an innocent for an innocent until the threat was neutralized?

What if it became apparent there was no other way?




posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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There aren't enough Muslims in America, and even if there were more, Americans are tough enough to fight them if it came down to it.

Europe is a WHOLE other story. They are taking over areas of England & Holland with officially government-recognized Sharia Law neighborhoods.

Maybe a country should try banning the Koran like Geert Wilders claims is needed. It happen soon enough to see what happens.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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I guess then "the terrorist won."

What point would that serve? Killing innocents until the threat was neutralized? I think your fanaticism is starting to show.

If we had to become serial killers to catch serial killers, what point would catching them make? If we have to become terrorists to catch terrorists then what is the point?

This board has enough hate brewing as it is. Why do you choose to feed it?

If I see one more "muslims are bad mmkay" thread I think I might just go insane.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by ThaLoccster
I guess then "the terrorist won."

What point would that serve? Killing innocents until the threat was neutralized? I think your fanaticism is starting to show.

If we had to become serial killers to catch serial killers, what point would catching them make? If we have to become terrorists to catch terrorists then what is the point?

This board has enough hate brewing as it is. Why do you choose to feed it?

If I see one more "muslims are bad mmkay" thread I think I might just go insane.


I think your failure to completely read a thread is starting to show.

I clearly said it was a what if question and that I was not advocating anything.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by bettermakings
 


Banning the Koran?

Yeah, freedom for everybody, as long as what we believe, right?

Despicable idea... so what if Muslims are a majority in Europe? Imagine if the Bible was banned America because of too many Christians.

As for 'an innocent for an innocent': if we implemented such a gross and horrendous idea, then what better are we than the radical Islamic groups who hang people in the streets and behead journalists.

I understand this a hypothetical what-if kind of conversation, but this mindset is identical to the mindset then led to the Holocaust.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Someone336
reply to post by bettermakings
 


As for 'an innocent for an innocent': if we implemented such a gross and horrendous idea, then what better are we than the radical Islamic groups who hang people in the streets and behead journalists.


But if nothing was done and the radical islamists were allowed to destroy our way of life and enslave what was left of the population, what will have been achieved by claiming the moral high ground?


I understand this a hypothetical what-if kind of conversation, but this mindset is identical to the mindset then led to the Holocaust.


It's not a "mindset", it's a question.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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"What if it became necessary for Americans to practice "an eye for an eye, an innocent for an innocent until the threat was neutralized?"


Understanding the hypothetical nature of your question, here is my opinion:


If the U.S(or Europe) were to use the same exact tactics(terrorist methods, martyrs, etc), the Muslims would quickly rethink and ultimately abandon their position and methods and probably seek negotiation.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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Its not a question. Like the other poster pointed out its a mindset. Its not just a "what if" question. Atleast not since it was raised by you. Had someone with less fanatic views on muslims than you raised this topic I might could agree that it was just a question.

But when the same person who makes statements like


Islam is the bloodiest, and the only one in existence that commands its followers to kill all non-Muslims, until religion - all of it is for Allah alone.


and


This is exactly why being muslim is a threat to our country and way of life, while being a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. is not.


and this gem from this thread


But if nothing was done and the radical islamists were allowed to destroy our way of life and enslave what was left of the population, what will have been achieved by claiming the moral high ground?


Asks this "question", its not as unbiased of one as they would have you believe.

I still say this thread does nothing more but try to continue the muslim bashing that is going on in the other threads. I guess this thread is all for it though.

I'll say it again, there are fanatics in every part of life. There are people that will kill you for disrespecting the Red Sox. When people take and skew words to fit their own twisted ideologies is it the book the words are taken from's fault? Or the people who twist them to their own agenda's?

If a guy uses the bible as justification for killing doctors that perform abortions, and bombing clinics, should the bible be banned? Should we kill their babies to make a point?

Its all ridiculous, as is this thread. And the idea that you aren't trying to further bash muslims, is also, ridiculous.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by ThaLoccster
When people take and skew words to fit their own twisted ideologies is it the book the words are taken from's fault?


Are you seriously suggesting that all the inherently bigoted,sociopathic,intolerant verses and instructions from the books of the abrahamic mythologies have just been 'taken out of context'?



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 



But if nothing was done and the radical islamists were allowed to destroy our way of life and enslave what was left of the population, what will have been achieved by claiming the moral high ground?


Radical Islam is by and far a minority. They would never be able 'destroy' us and 'enslave' us, unless you want to venture into the realms of absurd speculation.


It's not a "mindset", it's a question.


I didn't want to come out and say it, but I agree with what ThaLoccster has said. While this is a question, it is indicative of an overall pattern of fear and bias against the religion of Islam and the Arabic people. What is frightening is that there are people who believe such things, and in times like these people run scared to the extremes, swaddled in the warm fuzziness of xenophobia and screaming about those who are different than they. Sometimes, and in our world's not so unrecent history, this has resulted in horrific bloodshed.




[edit on 10-11-2009 by Someone336]



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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Many Muslims in Western Countries may not want sharia law. Many left their homelands to avoid things like sharia law.

Moderate Muslims need to be respected and protected in Western Countries. They need to be allowed to set an example of how a person can successfully balance tradition and modern beliefs.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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I like this, lets run with it:

Who would do the suicide bombings? In your mainstream "Christianity", suicide is frowned upon and is not looked on as martyrdom. Skip it, we'll scratch suicide bombings for now...

What are your parameters? Kill 10 for every one, or keep the death toll on an even keel? What about a decisive attack on foreign soil? What would the world have to say about it? The UN? Would China, North Korea or other world powers w/ nuclear capabilities approve? Or would they turn their backs on us, maybe even consider a pre-emptive strike? What about our own citizens? Would they rise up, saying that what is being done is "immoral"?

Don't forget the reactions of the extremists in our own country(on both sides): Mosques and churches being burned/vandalized; Muslims and Christians rounded up and held in camps or lynched; Suicide bombings and assassinations in small-town and heartland America. I'm a big-city kid, so drivebys and shootings are my bread and butter, but Everyville, USA population ~500? Going to be tough on them...



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
When people take and skew words to fit their own twisted ideologies is it the book the words are taken from's fault?


Are you seriously suggesting that all the inherently bigoted,sociopathic,intolerant verses and instructions from the books of the abrahamic mythologies have just been 'taken out of context'?


No, I'm saying that those same bigoted, sociopathic, intolerant verses and instructions exist in just about every religion. People in all those relgions use the words to fit their twisted ideologies.

Doesn't the bible regularly talk about killing in the name of god?

Doesn't some jewist text say its ok to sleep with a gentiles child as long as she is atleast 2 years old?



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


As much as some people would like to think otherwise, there are some conflicts that simply cannot be resolved peacefully. The one that you're describing is, unfortunately, one such. Extremist, fundamentalist Islam isn't compatible with European / American civilization, and no amount of talking will make it so. As partial proof of my statement, let me toss out a two impossible-to-reconcile points of friction.

Separation of church and state: It's an integral part of American law, and a generally-accepted principle in most Western civilizations. Sharia law is the literal integration of church and state.

Gender Equality: However far we fall short of the ideal, Western civilizations at least pay lip service to the concept that women and men are treated equally. Fundamentalist Islamic states, on the other hand, place extreme restrictions on a woman's right to an education, her freedom of expression, and even her freedom of association.

I could keep going, and going, and going along these lines, but there's no real need. Extreme fundamentalist Islamic belief simply doesn't mix with traditional Western thought. So...what happens if (or in the case of some countries, when) it comes to the point of death or assimilation? H. L. Mencken said it best: "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.". You do whatever you have to, no matter how distasteful, to preserve your freedom, and the culture that enshrines it.

Preemptive strikes follow, because I can already hear some of the responses to what I just typed.

"Stormhammer, you obviously hate Muslims! You're a religious bigot!"
Nope. I'll admit to a certain bias in my religious views...I'm an ordained Southern Baptist minister. I'll also point out that on my shelf beside my King James Bible, my New International Version, and an even dozen other, lesser-known translations of the Bible, I've got two copies of the Book of Mormon, and a copy of the Koran, and yes, I have read them all. My observations above aren't based on religious bigotry, but historical examples of incompatible cultures. Every single time differing cultures have clashed, one of three things has happened. Either one of the cultures has been destroyed, or both cultures have mutated into compatible forms, or the two have assimilated peacefully. The deep and fundamental differences between extreme fundamentalist Islam and Western thought make either of the latter two impossible, in my opinion...no bigotry, just observation.

"Stormhammer, you're full of crap! I know a lot of good, upstanding Muslims, and you just tossed the entire religion under the bus!"
Wrong. Read what I've typed. I carefully restricted my comments to fundamentalist, extremist Islamic belief. There are a lot of Muslims who regard that sort of fundamental fanaticism as an outrage. In my opinion, no extreme fundamentalist theocracy would be compatible with Western civilization, be it a Catholic State, a Fundamentalist Protestant State (shudder!), or a Sharia Islamic state.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Someone336
 


I think they have an unhealthy fear of the great satan, aka our culture as well,

So we cannot excuse one over the other,

In my mind I find it hard to believe we would allow civilization to go backward into the dark ages,

But the American born and raised Army major allowed it, he even asked his Iman to find him a wife that wore burka.

In many ways I am saddened of how immoral America has become, the pendulum may swing in a direction that boggles ones mind.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 

All I can do is go on personal experiences, I know several Muslim families, I loved the women, but couldn't stomach the men,

Even the man that I thought was so Americanized proved to be a monster, he bought a twenty year old American girl for 75,000 dollars, after his Americanized wife objected he threatened to send her, his wife, back, and they have been here thirty years,



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 



In my mind I find it hard to believe we would allow civilization to go backward into the dark ages


Radical Islam is an archaic belief system with no place in the modernized world, which is the reason it will never become the 'standard' of our lives.

The fact that we do not follow a system rooted and stuck in such ancient practices spells out exactly why we do not stoop to the level of al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and whatever other rag-tag groups are getting arms and money from intelligence services and all kinds of organized criminals.

If we fall into such a trap, then we might as well declare the radicals the victors.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Someone336
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 



In my mind I find it hard to believe we would allow civilization to go backward into the dark ages


Radical Islam is an archaic belief system with no place in the modernized world, which is the reason it will never become the 'standard' of our lives.

The fact that we do not follow a system rooted and stuck in such ancient practices spells out exactly why we do not stoop to the level of al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and whatever other rag-tag groups are getting arms and money from intelligence services and all kinds of organized criminals.

If we fall into such a trap, then we might as well declare the radicals the victors.


I agree,

Questions I have asked myself,

Why would an American woman, subject herself to sharia law?

And why are some American men turning to it?

It is said to be the fastest growing religion.



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 



Why would an American woman, subject herself to sharia law?

And why are some American men turning to it?


These are questions only answerable by those we are speaking of. Why do people join religions, or cults, gangs, organization, or whatever? Out of a belief system.

I have no problem with people converting to Islam. If that's what you gotta do to get through the day, alright then! If it becomes the religious majority, I say fine, as long as you don't take away my right to do and believe what I want. We must remind ourselves, so we don't get carried away on a flood of half-cocked ideas rooted in fear, that the radicals do not represent the vast majority of Islam.

Don't let a few rotten apples spoil the cart, you know? We don't let things like the situation in Ireland, the Phalagnists of Lebanon, the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda, or the National Liberation Front of Tripura in India spoil Christianity, so why let al-Qaeda and the Taliban do the same for Islam?



posted on Nov, 10 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Rarely I encountered an OP as inane as one in this thread. The author is contemplating killing innocents. The "what if" is just a smokescreen for a violent fantasy.



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