Why can't we admit we lost this battle?

Mainly why the USA cant admit defeat is because theres to types of history the truth and the american modifyed version!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now dont get me wrong i live in the US and i like it here but The usa is kinda like a big tyrant!!!!!!

Winning or losing imho is a moot point. We are there to stay. What were the goals of this war? listen to all the pundits and talking heads you want. the "Goal" is to have a contoling presence in the middle east. Iraq was a convienient and opertune location with scape goat like Sadam to provide motive.

The casualties suffered so far by the U.S. while tragic to all especialy the families, are acceptable by the powers to be. We're going to be there for a long time no matter if one soldier a day or twenty are killed. The draft will be coming.. and don't think JFK is going to get us out. oposite side of the same coin. This is a resource war, not just about oil, though that is huge. We're talking about supply routes and the contracts for most of central asia and most importantly China who by the way is now going to be at the top of the list with the us for the largest importer of patroleum.

Cool, lets line him up with your sociology, psychology, politics, economics and English teacher.

"Who told you that you can't win against a Jihad, or that you can't take the wind out of a revolutionary idea?"

No one, unlike some people here I've taken the lessons I've learnt and the knowledge I've gained and used it to form my own opinions.

"Have we or have we not made significant progress in our struggle with the ideals of communism?"

No.

"I remember reading about the mongols successfully putting down a Jihad, and i'll get a source for you later, but i've got work soon (I read about it in The New Strategy, an old military book by a colonel or general whos name escapes me.)"

Great. I love sources.

"The fact of the matter is that we have the ability to culturally subvert radical islam. "

You sure do, but not by trying to blow it up.

"We can win this war."

No you can't. You can "culturally subvert radical islam" But you can't win a "war" against it.

"The strategy we seem to be persuing is to install governments that interact with us so that we can help them employ all those angry youth and raise their standard of living. Once they're fattened up on McDonalds and dumbed down on Play Station they are gonna stop trying to kill us- look at France. They hate us too you know, but they dont start trouble. "

France doesn't hate you. Your absolutely right in saying that the way to "culturally subvert radical islam" is to improve the lives of the average middle eastern Muslim but you can't do that by destroying the country. More to the point, it looks like the common Iraqi wants nothing to do with the US any more...

"You know Christians don't subvert the American government for supporting abortion, gay rights, etc?"

yes, I made the point in a previous post.

"We're gonna give radical muslims the same pacifiers we give radical christians, and its gonna work. We just have to survive for a decade or two while we do it."

Yes... But your not doing.

What Battle Have we Lost? How do you Judge the Win or Lose, Body Count? Occupation? See you have no idea what war is, or this topic would not be started. You wanna know what War is Watch Band of Brothers or the History Channel any day. Great one about the Western Front on tonight. We loss Thousands in a Battle and we still won.

You assume we have lost but post no reasons why you think we have? Americans Dying? it happens in war. But we have far from lost any battle, in fact by the normal measures of war , we are having a one sided victory.

I am not sure where you get your info, but it is incorrect

US did not loose the battle on the military stand point what we are loosing is the rebuilding of this nation, the present administration did not research enough into how to deal we tribal groups, you can not promise to bring democracy to a nation that is used for thousands of year to tribal ruling, this tribal groups were opress by Saddan during his regime and now they want control and through history this tribes have a hierachy and that's what is no working right now, we have seen nothing yet they are waiting for the radical groups to get US out of Iraq. And then, wait when this tribes start fighting we each other for control.

I agree that the rebuilding and the POST war plan , was not thought through and I am far from a fan of Bush or this Admin. But I am pretty sure that not what this topic was about. The main Post doesnt make much sense. IMHO

You people need to get around a little more and actually talk to someone that has been there and seen that 80 percent of that country is benefiting from us being there. Yes a lot of bad things have happend and to many people have died that should not have but sadley enough that is war. Most of you guys sound like John Kerry puppets that don't have a clue about the real world and the fact that both Bush and Kerry are so corrupt they stink. I know a lot of people that have come back from Iraq and they have good pictures and good stories and some of them get mail from people they have helped over there. Do you think all of those men and women are lying and if so why? What sleazeball politician prospers from bad news in Iraq DUH! Get a clue and come to the light and the fact that the media is controling you and your thoughts and think about what brought you to this web site.