my "unified field" theory for science and christianity

When I was younger and left to contemplate the nature of our existence from my vast store of knowledge gathered in public school and CCD (that's an evil form of Sunday school which happened on a week day and sucked up an afternoon of fun) I cam to the conclusion that creationism and evolution are both correct.

Assuming, as I had been taught, that the Bible and Christianity were the "right" religion (and using that creation myth as a base) this is what I came up with:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, blah, blah, blah. Some stuff happens and we get Adam and Eve. They manage to piss off God are are expunged from Eden and set about there way.

OK so that is pretty basic. Now I figure that as an additional punishment, God turns Adam and Eve into some form of primitive primate. And as God "cools off" (like any parent after punishing a child) slowly begins to forgive them and allows their offspring to return to their human state.

Which brings in the evolution of primates into modern homo sapiens sapiens.

I once proposed this to a priest at CCD and he molested me. No seriously, he didn't molest me (even as a child I was unattractive I guess) but he mocked me and said if it isn't in the bible it didn't happen.

What do you think? Sound plausible? What are your ideas in this regard?

reply to post by Mr No One

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LMAO, well my condolences that you wern't attractive enough as a child for the Priest to give you some bonus classes. Yikes! Better luck next time.

I like your theory. I don't know if it is the unified field theory but what the heck. I could kind of see myself being god and my kids tearing up the house and me change them back to monkeys just so they don't forget who the boss is.

Doon't make me turn you back to monkeys you little brats.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by HotSauce]

reply to post by Mr No One

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But a god that reacts in sync with time isn't an omniscient god. If you knew everything that was, is, and will be, then you wouldn't have typical emotional reactions that follow consequence - reaction.

For example, let's put you in god's shoes. You get lonely, you want to make a friend. You know that by making this friend and putting him in your backyard, he will eat your magical fruit, kill your son, and then continue to poison the land and spill other's blood.

You create him anyway because you know he will adore you.

Why do you get mad when he does the above? You knew his actions were coming, and you did them anyway because you know he'll love you. Unless the god of the literal Bible is putting on some kind of dramatic play for an audience we can't see, it doesn't make a lick of sense. That's one of the logical fallacies of the (literally interpreted) Bible.

And unless I'm mistaken the Bible gave dominion over the Earth to men, so why would he make them animals very much subservient to nature's processes and fellow species?

I think the more likely theory of Christianity and Evolution is that we evolved naturally on this planet and that there is a creator, but we can only interpret it through our very skewed, very animal minds. And that's how we get things like the Bible!

Interesting. Perhaps God is not omniscient. It is plausible that a higher power could be omnipotent and not omniscient. Much more validity to us being in Gods image there, eh? Afterall, we have power that we do not understand and yet we wield it anyway. Monkey see, monkey do - yes?

Perhaps God is just omni-impatient. Maybe he has a type A personality and gets really ticked really quick. Maybe God needs anger management classes.

I know my kids have done some things that I know aren't the end of the world. I can forsee that they can be fixed and will not lead to the demise of my childrens future, but sometimes I still flip my lid. Maybe God is like that.

reply to post by Mr No One

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But if he was omnipotent, he should be able to make himself omniscient. We've learned in less than a century that we can manipulate time in a lab, but an all-powerful deity can't? Time is a force of nature, something which came into effect when the universe was created. If god can do anything but is still beholden to something that was created, then how can he be the creator?

reply to post by Avenginggecko

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Maybe He thought being omniscient sucked because He digs suprises. So He decided to use his omnipotence to make himself a tad less omniscient.

For example, we all have many things we are good at but we choose not to do them because they don't lead to what we find to be enjoyment.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by HotSauce]

I put this to you then - have you never done anything that went out of your control? Maybe in creating time as a force of nature God unknowingly created his own weakness. Again if he is omnipotent and not omniscient he wouldn't see it coming. Is it possible for an omnipotent being to enslave himself? In other words, can God make a mountain so big even he can't lift it?

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Mr No One]

I was forced into Bible classes as a kid too. I always held the view that the Garden of Eden was a different solar system and when the Christian God ejected Adam and Eve he moved them to a new planet where there was a semi-compatible race of creatures. This was the only way I could explain there being other "humans" around to kill Cain.

It also made sense to me in that Eden has several usages. There's: "God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden," (Gen. 2:8) "the land of Nod, east of Eden," (Gen. 4:16) and "the garden flowed from Eden" (Gen. 2:10). I always found this compelling especially when compared to this particular passage:

"So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." (Gen 3:24).

The "flaming sword" always sounded to me as though it was meant to suggest the sun and the concept of "keeping the way of the tree of life" was then fusion.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Xtraeme]

I hope this isn't straying off topic....We all have questions about the existence of God and what's been going on here in this universe. As a kid,when I was first told thatGod made the world,my first question was ,"Then who made God?" I hope in the next life I will be able to ask Him this in person,if there is a heaven like the bible tells us.

I think we aren't meant to have all the answers,but we are given the desire to know. Not so we can be "gods" ourselves,but rather to know our origins,like an adopted child yearns to know their natural parents.

I look at my cat and consider her perfect "catness". She is everything she was created to be. I think we could all have been that,"all we were created to be",if not for sin and all the ways this world has contaminated us(the air,our food,our water,...all have been adulterated). There are so many different philosophies and religions one could follow,it gets hard to decide. Kind of like choosing a toothpaste or a cereal,...so many choices,all claiming to be the best!)

Though I have chosen my beliefs after lots of trial and error,none of us can know with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY,any of it in this life. I'm glad I believe the way I do,because it makes this life bearable and offers me meaning and hope in a world that feels on the verge of implosion.

It's true that the more we know,the more we know we don't know! That's when faith comes in. My faith tells me that I don't know,but I trust that there is a God who does.

Just wanted to add my $0.02 !

Um, that is off topic. Can you relate our potential for "perfect catness" toward the ideas expressed previously? Either that of God being omnipotent but not omniscient or some such other?

reply to post by Mr No One

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I apologize. I guess I didn't grasp the meaning of what you were trying to say. My point was just that,at this stage of the game,we are all "imperfect beings" and until all is said and done,I don't think we can have all the answers!

I won't say any more than that! I'm sorry if I missed your point! ( I believe God is all-knowing,all-powerful,but still allows free choice. He's also very patient!)

By your own assumption here God is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. But that still doesn't negate the fact that an omnipotent god would also be omniscient. If he was the creator of all, and he did create time, he would know the basics of how time works and flows. It's like saying an engineer created a combustible engine but didn't understand how it worked.

Lesson 1: Literal Bible interpretation doesn't really hold water to logic, does it? Pretty interesting stuff!

But you make an assumption that is false. Omnipotence and Omniscience are not one and the same nor do they have to coincide. A being could be omnipotent without being omniscient.

And, as for your engine idea, one could create a combustion engine and know how it works but not know the impact it will have. Do you think Eli Whitney knew the impact his cotton gin would have on the society in which he lived? Oh he may have had an idea that it would change some things but the complete upheaval it led to? Probably not. In the same way and omnipotent god playing with his power could possibly bring about his own undoing. Perhaps that is why we see the progression from a vengeful and jealous god to a loving and caring one. God matured.

reply to post by Mr No One

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Actually, you're making the false assumption that omnipotence and omniscience are mutually exclusive, when in reference to the Christian god of the Bible, they are not.

If God is the creator and the book of Genesis is correct, then his omnipotence and omniscience go hand in hand. A god that is actively able to create cannot be omniscient without being omnipotent, because if he were omniscient he would know how to become omnipotent, and if he were omnipotent he could make himself omniscient.

Think about it for a moment. You're still using human terms to try and understand the god of the Bible.



Does that sound like a deity that doesn't know the flow of time?

Then why the progression from vengeful/jealous god to loving/caring god?

If, as you say, omnipotence and omniscience MUST coincide, wouldn't he just have started as loving/caring since he would end up there anyway?

Also, the texts of the bible are NOT written by god, they are written by man. And thus fundamentally flawed. Perhaps we humans called god the be all and end all because we couldn't understand anything else for him to be.

It would appear that you have a difficulty in accepting new ideas.......

For sake of your peace of mind, I will concede that your god is BOTH omnipotent and omniscient

I think you need to re-read my posts. I'm arguing that the God of the Bible as literally interpreted can not be omnipotent or omniscient. I'm pointing out to you the logical fallacy of the God of the Bible and I believe I even specifically stated that



I don't believe I have trouble accepting new ideas. I haven't had to alter my argument to fit the premise, whereas you have had to continually reshape your argument to make room for god in flawed logic.



And now you begin to grasp the conundrum that is the Christian god.



Exactly. I'm glad you've been able to accept my argument, finally.

But I am not making an argument. I postulated a theory. Any theory must be open to adjustment as facts were presented. You said that god MUST be both omniscient and omnipotent, I simply proposed an alternative. I am open to exploring new ideas and letting them have an effect on my own.

Really, I'm not sure what you are saying from your posts. It seems to me you flip flop between agreeing that god could be flawed and demanding that he is not. Unfortunately I don't have a side, I am just trying to make the most plausible theory......

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Mr No One]

reply to post by Mr No One

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Sigh. You're still missing the point. I'm just going to suggest you reread what I've written and think about it for a bit.

So here is what I've come up with: From my original post I must add that I do NOT take the bible as a be-all/end-all authoritative blueprint of what god is and isn't. I am only trying to take the theory of evolution and the creation story of genesis and fit them together. I make no claims to the abilities and attributes of god. However, in order for my amalgamated story plausible this god must not be omniscient just omnipotent.