why do "palestinians" say they have a right to israel's land

Your confusion comes from the fact you reduce the issues to theological ones. Or not even theological ones but simply just..to a debate of religious overtone. Or maybe even racist if I may take it further
Yeah anyway I agree that you have to look at what Jordan did and it's really relevant to the whole souvereignity thing because they owned transjordania for a while I think..Or just claimed territory themselves, can't remember. But that doesn't have to do anything with the palestinians and the reason everybody picks on Israel is because they can lament the presence of a self-righteous state like the lot of them to keep popular dissent down and everybody in line...That's why no state is ever going to do something about Israel nor the palestinians..I'm not okay with the israeli state doing what it does today while there's a group of people having been there before the europeans demanding their right of souvereignity...Look at what happens to self-governance: Hamas was democratically elected, yet it was kicked out... That's usurping a democracy and shows that the Israeli state doesn't care about palestinians autonomy, "autonomy" itself is a euphemism for Palestine lacking acknowledgement as a state as all the others... Even if palestinians found a state and design it to cooperate with Israel, it's not an autonomous process because Israel has showed their resent for palestinian self-decision as it would hurt her, and so a government claims to be the *only* democratic country "around" when it surpresses other forms of government without and within...I remind you that the Knesset (israeli parliament) had a law overruled by the constitutional court in 2007 I think as it had banned "arabic parties" from voting in the parliament...

So: IT'S NOT ABOUT THE RELIGION. FORGET IT. ONCE AND FOR ALL, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

Israels land? You gotta be kidding surely. On the basis of some biblical myth they have behaved with supreme arrogance. No justice loving God would sanction what they have done and are doing. They are too bigotted to see it. Those peaceful god fearing settlers will burn in hell - if there is such a place.

reply to post by thricearound


Well, their democratly elected leader were and are terrorists.

It is the Hamas terrorists that cause those in gaza to suffer.

If they stopped attacking Israel, they would stop getting counter attacks-D'UH.

Since they freely elected the terrorists as their leaders, they they should suffer do to the actions of those who they elected.

Regardless of their religious beliefs, Think about the war this way. For centuries Israel was not a nation but a group of Jewish peoples wondering the earth. It was only in 1948 they became a nation again. In all those centuries the land was occupied by the Muslims. Now Israel comes along and wants the land back.

This would be like the American Indians demanding their land back from the white men who took it. All of the United States of America falls under land taken from the Indians. Hey California, Hey Texas, Hey Alabama, Hey New York, etc, Are you going to give the land back to the Indians - The rightful owners?

I don't think that's going to happen. So it is with the Palestinians.

Now in the old days when God walked with his People the Hebrew nation he would tell them, Go and conquer this land and it will be yours. Go slaughter every man woman and child - leave no one alive - God tells the Jews and I will be with you to help you accomplish this task. So the Hebrew people did as they were told and God was with them and it was a mighty slaughter. The enemy could not stand against this Hebrew Nation with the power of God on their side.

Look at the biblical account from either the Bible or Jewish books of the old testament. When ever the Jews were walking with God and doing what God told them they would be victorious. Whenever they became backsliders and turned away from God' law they would fail in their conquest.

This land may be promised to the Jewish people but the Jewish people are Not walking with their God and their God is not supporting them. This is why in all these years they have still not taken back the land. Only when they as a nation return to God's will for them, will they have God on their side again and be able to take back the land. Until then, the fighting will continue.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

reply to post by mrmonsoon


oh stop that. Hamas is the democratically elected government in Gaza.

counter attacks? like how israel killed a couple Hamas officials before Cast Lead which caused Hamas to declare the cease-fire over?

Israel is the perpetual cause of war and instability in the region and until you get past your religious/cultural bias toward brown people, you will forever be a shill for a rogue nation.

reply to post by BlesUTP


Further, to be in yhvh's favor the Jews had to keep his covenant. These caucasian non-semetic non-hamitic Jews walking around uncircumcised calling themselves Buddhist with Free Tibet bumper stickers on their Volkswagons all the while deying rights and freedoms to brown and black Jews let alone the Palestinians is hardly "keeping the covenant". If your Jewish and work on Saturday you have broken the covenant. What gives you any right to your outrageous claims? Isreal is a rascist apartheid European colonial state and if it were not for the support of America and end times evangelists eager to see armageddon could not even exist.

reply to post by siahchi


The Palestinians come out of Jordan, where Edom was. If the Palestinians were descendants of Canaan, they wouldn't exist, considering that the Canaanites pretty well were assimilated into the Hebrew nation.

reply to post by siahchi

I never said the kingdom of Judah never existed. I was pointing out that the biblical accounts did not match up entirely with the accounts given by recorders of histories at the time, including Flavius Josephus.

Josephus wasn't a history recorder during the time of the Israel/Judah. He wasn't even a twinkle in his grandfathers eye yet. Josephus came around much later, when Rome ruled in Palestine.

The bible is their main argument in the first place, and is to this day not considered accurate history by most scholars of antiquarian history.

I've read otherwise. Scholars have used the Bible and have found it very helpful and accurate.

[edit on 11/9/2009 by octotom]

reply to post by octotom

an ancient Egyptian representation of a Canaanite:






left to right, top to bottom: Horus, Egyptians, Canaanites, Nubians, Assyrians




Modern Palestinians:









isreali settlers:







tzipi livni-


king Yuya (Ben Haddad I):




Yasser Arafat:




it's only a coincidence livni looks so much like Hillary, being different races and all:




Yep. Those isrealis sure look like the ancient depictions of the people of the land of Palestine (emphasis on sarcasm critical...)

[edit on 9-11-2009 by siahchi]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by siahchi]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by siahchi]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by siahchi]

I'll probably be bashed for this statement, but, why can't they share all of the land and become one nation permitting its residents to follow whatever religions they wish while not resorting to violence against each other. If I was the supreme world leader, I would mandate this at once.

We can be certain of one thing right now, the current arrangement has failed to create a peaceful, non-oppressive environment for all inhabitants. It is time to try something new.

If the map that shrike071 pointed out in this post is true then I can certainly comprehend why the Palestinians are upset.

Simple rule: You may live here together with one simple requirement; TOLERANCE OF OTHERS BELIEFS. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

Originally posted by BuffaloJoe
I'll probably be bashed for this statement, but, why can't they share all of the land and become one nation permitting its residents to follow whatever religions they wish while not resorting to violence against each other. If I was the supreme world leader, I would mandate this at once.

They tried this but people kept igniting themselves in public places.
Now they will not even let them into the population centers.
Just look at this list:
Attack history
And that only goes back to 2000...

Reply:

Yes, Palestinians are intelligent. I'm not saying they are stupid, but they are troublemakers, and they are keeping themselves down. If they worked on fixing their own territory, instead of using their energy on fighting & complaining about Israel, maybe they could prove to the world they are civilized by creating a civilized country. Look at Israel, then look at Palestine.

If money is the problem, why don't the wealthy Palestinians of the world go back and help their country fix itself, instead of funding terror groups like they are doing now. You can't blame Israel for all of Palestine's problems, and you can't deny Israel is more developed.

reply to post by bettermakings


Plestinians do not even have the right to travel freely in the little territory they have left. IDF Checkpoints divide villages in half. Monetary and medical aid is denied all the time for any reasons the isrealis see fit. How can you work with that?

I simply cannot let this thread go by... The "Palestinians" were the rightful owners of the land that was given to the jewish people by the United Kingdom.

No matter how you twist and turn it, the jews in Palestine are the invaders. And the argument of how peace could be obtained by ending the attacks and counter-attacks is simply dumb. How do you think would americans feel if the Dutch would someday say: "Well since our forefathers lived here you should get the **** out !"

Would you not feel enraged ? Would you not try to get these invaders out again ? That`s exactly what the Palestinians are trying for decades now. And my bet is that they would have succeeded if it were not for the support of the US government...

I`m not saying I`m an expert in this matter, but at least I`m trying to have some empathy, which is more than can be said of some of the people who have replied...

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Lunatyx]

"Israel's land"???? this must be some type of conspiracy nonsense, right?

OK, lets face reality here, cut through the BS bickering, and just for argument sake agree with the Palestinians claim to the land (whether we do or not)... Ok?

Israel is not going anywhere, it is what it is, it has too much support, and it's there to stay...
At some point you would think that most folks would just realize that maybe the world is not always fair and MOVE ON with their lives. You know, like in the prayer of serenity:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

I say enough of the temper tantrums, enough of messing with other countries over this crap, its time to learn some wisdom and get on with a decent life. This crap has been going on since when? 1948? Is that not just a bit on the asinine side?

reply to post by defcon5


You are mistaken.

That crap has been going on for 1000's of years.... seriously.

reply to post by shrike071
Well said.

Thank you for the land loss map too.

Originally posted by octotom
It makes sense that the Palestinians cause a ruckus over this land. After all, the Palestinians are descendants of Edom; and the Edomites always were at odds with the Israelites. This struggle over the land is just one way that it is being manifested in modern times. Edom has been a thorn in his brother's side and it will be that way until Messiah comes.

So basically you are saying, the land belonged to the Edomites before the Hebrews invaded under the 'perception' that Their God told them to kill every person in those lands. In which case the land must belong to the Palestinians and not the Jewish nation?

because they are a prime example of how religion leads to war and death and killing. I'm sure they'd get along just fine without any false prophets to believe in.

reply to post by defcon5


Right is right defcon. If a soldier from anywhere murdered your child, or father, in your own house, would you just "lettit slide" and say the lords serenity prayer? You are watching with your own eyes the same thing America did to the Indians. It was 400 years before they let it slide and then only because there were so few left. Google or youtube Palestinian. All you will see is destroyed homes and hysterical women with tears in their eyes. Look in the eyes of the people. Then tell me what you think.