Ft. Hood Shooter Tried To Contact Al-Qaeda

Originally posted by canadianmouse
Until it comes out in court that this guy was a radical muslim, I would say he was just a crazy ass psycho who harmed innocent people.

That's why there are experts in charge who know the difference. Thanks for your opinion.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Hahahahahhahaha. you crack me up.
Yeah, those guys in Heathrow just ran off the road, silly chaps.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH.
You are so funny.

Now back to the topic instead of another diversion.
The Ft Hood shooter is spilling his guts in a hopsital room, undoubtedly on video. Can't wait to hear it all at trial, no wait, it's the same Islamic rhetoric.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

and one of the guys had explosives in his car and he was running around while on fire
I mean all on fire, i mean his body completely on fire all over
people said he was screaming "Allah" "Allahhhhhhh"

I found that amusing, someone who is completely in fire is able to scream a name

The reality is in those kinds of crisis when people are transfixed subconciously with their own fears and worries of life and death most people are too nervous and preoccupied to actually register important details that are happening around them.

The fight or flight mode kicks in and that's what people are focused on, how to run away or how to fight back.

Later when the emotions and nerves and adrenneline have subsided and calmed down then they start inventing details most often from verbal clues and peer pressure from investigators and other victims.

Investigator: Did the attacker say anything? Maybe Allah Akbar...

Witness 1: Ah now that you mention I think he did (as they both look to witness 2 for confirmation)

Witness 2: Oh yeah, yeah he did I heard him he said Allah Snack Bar!

Investigator: You mean All Akbhar?

Witness 2: Yeah that's what he said Allah Akbar, it kind of sounded like snack bar that's what threw me off, but yeah!

People have an inherent need to make sense out of things that make no sense and they can be coaxed easily into claiming they heard and saw things that never happened in that collective quest.

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by canadianmouse
Until it comes out in court that this guy was a radical muslim, I would say he was just a crazy ass psycho who harmed innocent people.

That's why there are experts in charge who know the difference. Thanks for your opinion.

It is my opinion, but just because there are experts out there does that mean they know the difference? Are they the same experts that claimed Iraq had WMD?

Originally posted by canadianmouse
I never once stated he was a victim. I am stating that there are other reasons other then religion as to why he did what he did. I don't think anything he did was right. I don't believe in killing another human being, for revenge or for justice.

Once and for all - and I hope you finally understand since you want to keep trying to deflect by bringing other religions into this discussion.

Muslims like this guy do not consider themselves Americans. Their religion and its sharia law supersede all other things.

So, by their own definition, they cannot be both Americans and muslims.

For Christianity and all the other religions mentioned, it is OK to be both..

reply to post by JJay55


I think the point is that everyone is already condemning this guy without knowing all the facts. And the only "facts" we're getting are from the MSM, who are known for sensationalizing stories and swaying public opinion the way they determine it should be swayed.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by JJay55

 

I think the point is that everyone is already condemning this guy without knowing all the facts. And the only "facts" we're getting are from the MSM, who are known for sensationalizing stories and swaying public opinion the way they determine it should be swayed.

The MSM is diverting from the muslim connection too. No one is making this a racial issue.
But it is a fact that Fard Ayn is and will be used as Law to kill Americans. No muslim will deny that. Further, it is fact that there have been other acts of crime in the US by muslims for the sake of Islam. We quickly forget and forgive the crimes of the Beltway snipers, the kid who drove his SUV into a crowd of students, the honor killing of the beautiful girl in Texas who's father thought she was too Westernized, and more importantly 911.
All these crimes were committed by muslims who wanted to kill Americans according to Islamic law.
So condemnation of Islam isn't inappropriate, especially when this guy was guilty of handing out Korans and harsh words for Americans in the name of Islam.

reply to post by JJay55

Fard al-Ayn
In Islamic law, refers to legal obligations that must be performed by each individual Muslim, including prayer, charity, fasting, and pilgrimage. Individual obligation is contrasted with communal obligation (fard al-kifayah). The question of whether the obligation of “reproaching the unjust ruler” or, more generally, the obligation to “command the good and forbid the reprehensible” is an obligation on each individual or can be satisfied by part of the community is debated, particularly among Shii scholars.

Oxford Islamic Studies

Fard al-Kifayah
Defines a communal obligation in Muslim legal doctrine. In juxtaposition to fard al-ayn, fard al-kifayah is a legal obligation that must be discharged by the Muslim community as a whole, such as military struggle; if enough members in the Muslim community discharge the obligation, the remaining Muslims are freed from the responsibility before God. However, if a communal obligation is not sufficiently discharged, then every individual Muslim must act to address the deficiency. In recent Islamic literature, this terminology is used to discuss social responsibility, such as feeding the hungry, commanding good, and forbidding evil.

Oxford Islamic Studies

JJay seams to have a little problem with books, and what they mean.

In case anyone wants to know the truth, the meaning of Fard al-Ayin is nothing remotely close to what JJay contends.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Once and for all - and I hope you finally understand since you want to keep trying to deflect by bringing other religions into this discussion.

Muslims like this guy do not consider themselves Americans. Their religion and its sharia law supersede all other things.

So, by their own definition, they cannot be both Americans and muslims.

For Christianity and all the other religions mentioned, it is OK to be both..

Say it again, and again until more and more Americans understand this.
It is a matter for our future protection that Americans become educated about this simple principle.
Then we can move on to other more important topics like speciffic plans that put us in Yellow, Orange, and Red alert.

reply to post by JJay55


I see your point. But as others have pointed out, many Christians have killed based on their Christian beliefs (Dr. Tiller's killer for example). I understand those that say it's not the same; however, these people still took their beliefs and used them against others and used them to justify violence against others.

Muslims aren't the only one's who use their beliefs to justify killing others. No one is trying to justify this guys actions. It was monstrous what he did. But there's people in this country and many others from ALL DIFFERENT WALKS OF LIFE let their beliefs cloud their judgment and turn them into monsters. The Fort Hood shooter is no different.

We should all worry about all these types of people. Not just the Muslim extremists.

This thread illustrates what I am talking about: ats.com

A group has come out with a principle that essentially says that anyone threatening the life of an unborn child should be dealt with as if they were putting the life of a born child in imminent danger (i.e. kill them if necessary). IMO, these people are no different than Muslim terrorists, but some would beg to differ.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by JJay55

 

I see your point. But as others have pointed out, many Christians have killed based on their Christian beliefs (Dr. Tiller's killer for example). I understand those that say it's not the same; however, these people still took their beliefs and used them against others and used them to justify violence against others.

Muslims aren't the only one's who use their beliefs to justify killing others. No one is trying to justify this guys actions. It was monstrous what he did. But there's people in this country and many others from ALL DIFFERENT WALKS OF LIFE let their beliefs cloud their judgment and turn them into monsters. The Fort Hood shooter is no different.

We should all worry about all these types of people. Not just the Muslim extremists.

This thread illustrates what I am talking about: ats.com

A group has come out with a principle that essentially says that anyone threatening the life of an unborn child should be dealt with as if they were putting the life of a born child in imminent danger (i.e. kill them if necessary). IMO, these people are no different than Muslim terrorists, but some would beg to differ.

Seems to me that you are thinking in pure Western terms.
Islam does not worry about all types of people.
Islam does not care about Western policy of abortion.
Islam does not cloud the judgement of it's followers.

Just because you are plural and accepting of others that doesn't mean everyone is.

reply to post by JJay55


I don't understand what you mean by "Islam does not worry" about those things.

edit: sounds like you are just as much at war with Islam in your mind as Islam is at war with us. Therefore, all other forms of terrorism are of no consequence to you. That's just my perception. Correct me if I'm wrong.



[edit on 10-11-2009 by nunya13]

Let's play a game shall we? I will provide a list of attacks perpetrated by Islamic Fundamentalists. Then, you who continue to claim that all religions are equally capable of terrorist acts can submit your list of attacks launched by other religions in the same time frame.

26 February 1993 - World Trade Center bombing, New York City. 6 killed. 13 March 1993 - 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. The single-day attacks resulted in over 250 civilian fatalities and 700 injuries. 24 December 1994 - Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers. 25 June 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded. 14 February 1998. The 1998 Coimbatore bombings occurred in the city of Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 46 people were killed and over 200 were injured in 13 bomb attacks within a 12 km radius. 7 August 1998 - 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured. 12 October 2000 - Attack on the USS cole in the Yemeni port of Aden. 11 September 2001 - 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.[126] 13 December 2001 - Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba. 3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured 7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured. 24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.[127][128] 12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.[129] 16 May 2004 - Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia. 11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda) 3 September 2004 Approximately 344 civilians including 186 children, are killed during the Beslan school hostage crisis.[130][131] 2 November 2004 - Ritual murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri. 4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people. 7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured. 23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed. 29 October 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings, India. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.[132] 9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan.[133][134] Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.[135] 7 March 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings, India. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Taiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi.[136] Uttar Pradesh government officials. 11 July 2006. Mumbai, India. 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings were a series of seven bomb blasts that took place over a period of 11 minutes on the Suburban Railway in Mumbai (formerly known as Bombay). 209 people lost their lives and over 700 were injured in the attacks. 13 May 2008. Jaipur, India. Pakistan-based Islamic militants detonate around 7 bombs within 12 minutes, leaving over 60 dead and numerous injured. 26 July 2008. Ahmedabad, India. Islamic militants detonate at least 16 explosive devices in the heart of this industrial capital, leaving at least 49 dead and 160 injured. A Muslim group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen claims responsibility. Indian authorities believe that extremists with ties to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh are likely responsible and are intent on inciting communal violence[137]. Investigation by Indian police led to the eventual arrest of a number of militants suspected of carrying out the blasts, most of whom belong to a well-known terrorist group, The Students Islamic Movement of India[138]. 13 September 2008. Delhi, India. Pakistani extremist groups plant bombs at several places including India Gate, out of which the ones at Karol Bagh, Connaught Place and Greater Kailash explode leaving around 30 people dead, followed by another attack two weeks later at the congested Mehrauli area, leaving 2 people dead. 26 November 2008. Mumbai, India. Muslim extremists kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in a series of coordinated attacks on India's largest city and financial capital. A group calling itself the Deccan Mujaheddin claims responsibility, however, the government of India suspects Islamic militants based in Pakistan are responsible. Ajmal Kasab, one of the militants, was caught alive

Your turn...

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by JJay55

 

I don't understand what you mean by "Islam does not worry" about those things.

edit: sounds like you are just as much at war with Islam in your mind as Islam is at war with us. Therefore, all other forms of terrorism are of no consequence to you. That's just my perception. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by nunya13]

Ummmm no. I'm not at war with Islam. In case you hadn't noticed we are on the defense.... ummm remember 911? I'm sick and tired of muslims coming into America and killing. I hope everyone is but no.... people on these threads are saying that Islam is peaceful, this could never happen from a muslim, they dismiss this behavior as some freeking phenomena and random case when it's happened over and over and the muslims who commit these crimes admit it is for Islam. WTF? Really how much more simple can I say it?

Yet I'm attacked for being a bigot, racist, insensitive, unaware of Islam, full of hate, blah blah blah. No, I'm sick of muslims using Islamic theology to kill Americans, and they admittedly do. Simple.

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by JJay55

 

I don't understand what you mean by "Islam does not worry" about those things.

edit: sounds like you are just as much at war with Islam in your mind as Islam is at war with us. Therefore, all other forms of terrorism are of no consequence to you. That's just my perception. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by nunya13]

Ummmm no. I'm not at war with Islam. In case you hadn't noticed we are on the defense.... ummm remember 911? I'm sick and tired of muslims coming into America and killing. I hope everyone is but no.... people on these threads are saying that Islam is peaceful, this could never happen from a muslim, they dismiss this behavior as some freeking phenomena and random case when it's happened over and over and the muslims who commit these crimes admit it is for Islam. WTF? Really how much more simple can I say it?

Yet I'm attacked for being a bigot, racist, insensitive, unaware of Islam, full of hate, blah blah blah. No, I'm sick of muslims using Islamic theology to kill Americans, and they admittedly do. Simple.

Yes, as I mentioned elsewhere, the argument they use to defend islam as a "religion of peace" by saying "true islam" does not condone these actions is the same as the one people used to defend communism by saying that the barbaric actions of the soviet union were not "true communism". Saying that did not mean none of it actually happened. Saying that did not resurrect all the soviet's victims.

reply to post by JJay55


19 Saudis were alleged to have carried out 9-11. Alleged because no trials in a constitutional court of law have ever been carried out.

Did we attack Saudi Arabia? No we sure didn't. We attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of innocent people who have never been to America and never attacked us.

Where you imagine what you imagine and what you base those imaginations on is the actual root cause of why we do have a problem with the Islamic world.

Easily manipulated people prone to bigotry and prejudice manipulated by a government run by a Military Industrial Complex out to make a profit off of war. Any war that they can justify to the American people who have to pay for it.

No constitutional trials and no attacks on the country where the alleged hijackers came from.

9-11? The real crime there is the government lying to us about it and what those lies have accomplished with fools and bigots.

I don't blame the Muslims for being angry over our foreign policy the reality is a lot of thinking, intelligent, decent Americans are angry over our foreign policy too and the fact that 9 years later the Government has never tried one person even in abstentia in a constitutional court of law for the greatest crime ever committed on American soil.

9-11? Get real Jjay!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

19 Saudis were alleged to have carried out 9-11. Alleged because no trials in a constitutional court of law have ever been carried out.Did we attack Saudi Arabia? No we sure didn't. We attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of innocent people who have never been to America and never attacked us.

Was the Saudi government behind that attack? Your lack of historical perspective ranges somewhere between laughable and alarming. Using your logic, since the murdering pig who killed the innocent people at Ft Hood was born in the US, we should launch an attack on ourselves?

The organization that planned, financed and carried out the attacks on 9/11 were headquartered in Afghanistan. It's really not all that hard to figure that out.

Easily manipulated people prone to bigotry and prejudice manipulated by a government run by a Military Industrial Complex out to make a profit off of war. Any war that they can justify to the American people who have to pay for it.

Actually easily manipulated people tend to spend much time ans energy trying to make excuses for terrorists. They count on people like you to help further their cause.

And, I submit your own words as evidence in the case against Islamist Apologists:

I don't blame the Muslims for being angry over our foreign policy the reality is a lot of thinking, intelligent, decent Americans are angry over our foreign policy too and the fact that 9 years later the Government has never tried one person even in abstentia in a constitutional court of law for the greatest crime ever committed on American soil.

Yeah, there are many Americans who are angry with the foreign policy our government has decided to pursue. The difference is that civilized people don't use that anger as an excuse to murder innocents.

Some do, however, seem to sympathize with the murderers.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Night Watchman]

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Night Watchman]

reply to post by Night Watchman


It's a faulty argument you put forth as once again the alleged crimes of the so called Afghani Taliban Government have never been proven in a Court of Law.

In fact the Taliban offered to surrender Bin Laden if the U.S. would provide evidence that Bin Laden was behind the attack.

This is a standard request in civilized nations seeking extradition of wanted criminals all the time.

Of course we had no evidence just as we have no evidence which is why to this day not one trial in regards to 9-11 has ever taken place in American Courts of Law WHERE EVIDENCE IS REQUIRED to try, convict and judge someone.

The Media and Court of Public oppinion manipulated by the media is not a substitute for this third vital branch of government.

Once again all you can do is allege the motives behind the Ft. Hood murders as once again no evidence has been presented in a Court of Law.

That's called Constitutional Due Process my friend and I am tired of watching the Constitution be trampled on by Americans who don't believe in it and have no faith in it and don't want it getting in the way of exercising their non-Constitutional desire to proclaim people guilty when no court of law has done so.

The bits of flesh and blood and metal these so called terrorists are racking up is nothing compared to the damage to the actual constitutional fabric of our nation being destroyed by the government and the media and mindless imbeciles who must think the Constitution is for toilet paper because it's most sacred principles aren't more important to them than knee jerk reactions, and being manipulated by the media and government to bankrupt the nation economically and morally to fund an out of control Military Industrial Complex.

The terrorists couldn't even begin to compete with the cretins who wrap themselves in their flags and bibles and rush out to ignore every principle in both to exercise bloodlust and revenge.

The real culprits and perpetrators and financers have gotten away scott free because of such morons and how easily they are decieved.

Facts are facts and you my friend barely even have a clue let alone a fact.



[edit on 10/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

::sighs:: As I stated months ago there is No Al-queda. It was a DoD computer program that was started back in the late 1970's. I remember seeing it when I took ADA. If you don't know DoD is Department of Defense. USA. Its just the various alphebet groups waring for dominance within the military industrial complex. And theyve PROGRAMED everyone into thinking that Al-queda is some big bad terrorist group.
One more false-flag operation.

Sheesh. I see no one listens.

If you want proof go find a copy of ADA computer program langage. Also for those that don't know ADA was for the military, or Pre-internet.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

It's a faulty argument you put forth as once again the alleged crimes of the so called Afghani Taliban Government have never been proven in a Court of Law.

In fact the Taliban offered to surrender Bin Laden if the U.S. would provide evidence that Bin Laden was behind the attack.

This is a standard request in civilized nations seeking extradition of wanted criminals all the time.

Of course we had no evidence just as we have no evidence which is why to this day not one trial in regards to 9-11 has ever taken place in American Courts of Law WHERE EVIDENCE IS REQUIRED to try, convict and judge someone.



[edit on 10/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Wow. What color is the sky on your planet? Honestly, you aren't serious are you? Your views are beyond immature and naive. Not that this is anything new for you.

So, when this country is attacked, it is your contention that we should not respond until we have tried the attackers in a court of law? Following your logic we should never have gotten involved in WW2 until we tried and convicted the kamikaze pilots? The Emperor of Japan?

When the US attacked responded to the attacks of 9/11 the response was aimed at Al Qaeda not the Taliban. We demanded OBL be turned over to us and the Taliban refused. We then launched attacks aimed at crippling AQ's command and control infrastructure.

Again, reading can be your friend but then again, I highly doubt you ever read anything that disagrees with your pointy headed view of the world.