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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
reply to post by Arbitrageur
Of course he can talk about M-Theory in this way. This is what human b beings do.
We weigh the available evidence within reason and come to a conclusion as to what's more likely and what's less likely.
Unfortunately, until we can find some way to observe higher dimensions (impossible with our current level of technology) M-Theory has a very difficult time making predictions which can be tested in a laboratory. Technologically, it may never be possible for it to be "proven."
If skeptics and debunkers don't have any evidence against the proposition then what are they debating?
How can you argue with that conclusion? But it's not a conclusion that it's ET, and again we don't know what it was, could have been time travelers instead of ET for all we know, or something else.
This case is a classic which meets all the criteria necessary for a valid study of the UFO phenomenon
Originally posted by mcrom901
sorry for the long quotes..... wasn't sure people would check the link....
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
So alien adbuctions are evidence for the proposition that we have been visited. The skeptic and debunker should have evidence against the proposition.
If skeptics and debunkers don't have any evidence against the proposition then what are they debating?
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
You don't have a clue as to what your talking about.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Theories can be included as evidence against a proposition.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Parallel universes, simulation theory, the universe as a quantum computer are all theories accepted by Professors from M.I.T. to Harvard yet none of these theories don't have any proof.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
This is because these people use reason to come to the conclusion as to what's most likely and what's less likely. We do it in all walks of life. Courts do it everyday. We always weigh the evidence within reason and then we reach a conclusion as to what's most likely and what's less likely.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
It has absolutely nothing to do with proving a negative. If you have a theory then that could be considered evidence against and for the proposition.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Example:
We have found liquid water on Mars. As one Nasa scientist said before we found liquid water, where there's lwater there's life. You do the math (if you can). There's billions of earthlike planets and we have found extremaphiles in places that you wouldn't expect to find life.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
This can be used as evidence for the proposition.
Alien Abduction cases.
www.ufocasebook.com...
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
More evidence in support of the proposition.
Trace evidence
The following presents a statistical analysis of data found in 3,189 reports involving observations of anomalous phenomena or objects on or near the ground resulting in physical effects generated by the unknown objects observed. These events took place in 91 countries between 1490 and 2006. There are hundreds of additional reports of possible trace sites which do not involve the observation of a UFO. All but the most significant of these events have been removed from the primary files and located in a secondary catalog.The analysis permits certain regularities of these phenomena to be brought out. The data indicates there is a certain type of phenomenon which shows stable statistical properties.
www.ufophysical.com...
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Have you ever listened or read some of the great debates like between Albert Einstein and Neils Bohr?
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
The Proposition is that extraterrestrial/extradimensional beings exist and visitation has occured.
What's the evidence for and against the proposition to make this statement true or false?
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
We always come to conclusions as to what's most likely and what's less likely by weighing these things within reason. If we were to go by your silly standard then we would still be stuck in caves tring to "prove a negative" LOL.
The argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam ("appeal to ignorance" [1]), argument by lack of imagination, or negative evidence, is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false, or is false only because it has not been proven true.
The argument from personal incredulity, also known as argument from personal belief or argument from personal conviction, refers to an assertion that because one personally finds a premise unlikely or unbelievable, the premise can be assumed to be false, or alternatively that another preferred but unproven premise is true instead.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
This can be used as evidence for the proposition.
Alien Abduction cases.
www.ufocasebook.com...
Alien Abduction cases.
www.ufocasebook.com...
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
reply to post by mcrom901
Good video from Dr. Kaku.
In the video he debates for and against the proposition. It has nothing to do with "proving a negative."
I think skeptics and debunkers are programmed to debate against "proving a negative."
I hear this on every message board or blog that I visit when these things are debated.
You don't need to "prove a negative" when debating for and against a proposition.
Originally posted by ALLis0NE
So, I have a theory that you killed someone, and because theories are evidence to you, I have evidence that you killed someone and should get life in prison. Need more evidence? Ok, I have a theory that you were so mad at debunkers and skeptics that you just killed one of them, and I have evidence of that theory on this topic. I also have a theory that you are a terrorist, so I guess that is evidence that you are.
My proposition (theory) is that extraterrestrial visitation does NOT exist, and that secret humans are abducting other humans for scientific experiments, and because the abducted people had preconceived judgments created by television shows about aliens, they only thought they were abducted by aliens. My "evidence" is the same abduction cases:
The strange case of nineteen-year-old Calvin Parker, and forty-two-year-old Charles Hickson actually began a day before their famous encounter. On October 10, 1973, fifteen different people, including two policemen reported seeing a large, silver UFO slowly fly over a housing project in St. Tammany Parish, New Orleans, Louisiana.
Only a scant 24 hours later, Hickson and Parker would have the scare of their lives; a frightening encounter with an eerie UFO.
The two men were both from the town of Gautier, Mississippi, and were doing some fishing in the Pascagoula River on a dark night about 9:00 P.M. They suddenly heard a type of buzzing behind them.
Both men turned around to see the source of the sound, and were amazed to see a glowing, egg-shaped object with bluish lighting on its front side.
The unusual craft was hovering just a few feet above the ground, and about 30 feet from the shore of the river. To their unbelief, a door opened in the object, and three strange beings began to float just above the water straight toward them. Though the beings had legs, they did not use them, they simply floated across the river.
Parker and Hickson would later describe the beings as "about five feet tall, had bullet-shaped heads without necks, slits for mouths, and where their noses or ears would be, they had thin, conical objects sticking out, like carrots from a snowman's head. They had no eyes, grey, wrinkled skin, round feet, and claw-like hands."
Hickson, frozen in fear and unbelief, was grabbed by two of these creatures, and the third one took Parker, who fainted from fright. Hickson would later relate that when the beings put their arms under his body to support him, he felt numb all over. He was then floated into a a brightly-lit room inside of the UFO. Inside this room, he floated, along with an eye-like device which examined him all over.
After his ordeal, Hickson was left floating, while the beings left the room, probably to examine Parker. Approximately 20 minutes after the ordeal had begun, it was over, and Hickson was floated back outside of the strange craft. Parker was crying, and praying on the ground. Only a moment or two later, the craft rose straight up into the air and disappeared.
As the two men began to regain their composure, they were uncertain as to what they should do. Reluctant to report their harrowing experience, they felt obligated to tell someone. Despite fearing ridicule, they telephoned Kessler Air Force Base in Biloxi. Kessler referred their problem to their local sheriff's office.
Afraid of what reaction they might get from law enforcement, they opted instead to drive to their local newspaper. Finding the office closed, they decided to take their bizarre story to the sheriff after all. Naturally the sheriff felt the two men's story was some kind of hoax, and to get to the truth, he put Hickson and Parker into a room which was wired for sound, hoping that they would slip up, and reveal why they were perpetuating such a strange tale.
The two abductees were encouraged to take a lie-detector test, which they both passed. Harder and Hynek, both highly respected in their professions, believed the two men's story.
At a later date, Hynek stated; "There was definitely something here that was not terrestrial".
In what may be a related incident, a couple of weeks after this chilling account, Coast Guardsmen and fishermen had an encounter with an underwater metallic object.
The Pascagoula encounter is one of the most unusual accounts of all UFO reports. Though the sighting and abduction involved only two witnesses, there were several other sightings of unusual flying objects on the same night. The two men have held to their story, though no earthly explanation has been offered for the strange events of the night of October, 11, 1973.
Originally posted by downunderET
reply to post by chiron613
Everybody knows where the evidence is, it's under Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
Thats why "nobody' can come up with hard evidence because it's off limits, thats why.
Bill Chalker is one of Australia’s leading UFO researchers and the author of The OZ Files: The Australian UFO Story and Hair of the Alien: DNA and Other Forensic Evidence of Alien Abduction.
1. 31 August 1954 Sea Fury case, near Goulbourn, NSW, Australia (experienced naval pilot, radar visual confirmation, independent ground witnesses, apparent intelligent responses to witnesses’ thoughts about possible collision)
2. 23 July 1992 Peter Khoury “Hair of Alien” DNA case, Sydney, Australia (abduction-type encounter with female Nordic blonde yields anomalous hair sample that suggests “hybrid origin” and unusual genetic profiles)
3. 27 June 1959 Father Gill UFO entity sighting, Boianai, Papua New Guinea (credible multiple-witness sighting of animate entities on UFO with intelligent interactions)
4. 30 September 1980 George Blackwell’s UFO landing and physical trace case, Rosedale, Victoria, Australia (compelling array of physical evidence – ground trace, missing water, effects on witness, other witness)
5. 8 August 1993 Kelly Cahill’s abduction experience, Narre Warren North, Victoria, Australia (possible independent multiple-witness UFO encounter with abduction aspects and physical evidence)
6. 19 January 1966 George Pedley’s UFO nest encounter, Tully, Queensland, Australia (daylight close encounter with UFO take-off leaving physical evidence – “UFO nest”)
7. 14 April 1966 Ron Sullivan’s “bent headlight beam” experience, Burkes Flat, Victoria, Australia (striking UFO encounter, physical traces, bent light beams, possible related fatalities)
8. 6 April 1966 Westall school daylight UFO landing encounter, Westall, Victoria, Australia (multiple-witness daylight landing, physical traces, “cover-up” dimensions)
9. 1977–78 Gisborne UFO abduction milieu, Gisborne, New Zealand (complex and high strangeness UFO and abduction milieu – entities, multiple witnesses, multiple abductions)
10. May – August 1973 Tyringham Dundurrabin intense UFO flap area, New South Wales, Australia (long-term intense UFO flap, multiple witnesses, physical effects, paranormal aspects)
The following presents a statistical analysis of data found in 3,189 reports involving observations of anomalous phenomena or objects on or near the ground resulting in physical effects generated by the unknown objects observed. These events took place in 91 countries between 1490 and 2006. There are hundreds of additional reports of possible trace sites which do not involve the observation of a UFO. All but the most significant of these events have been removed from the primary files and located in a secondary catalog.The analysis permits certain regularities of these phenomena to be brought out. The data indicates there is a certain type of phenomenon which shows stable statistical properties.
Originally posted by agentofchaos
reply to post by Matrix Rising
Let me make sure I got it and re-state it for them, so that they understand what you're trying to say, because I think they are caught up on wording or trying to prove to you that they don't need evidence and/or proof. So what you're(matrix) is saying that someone has on tape a "UFO", presents it here and everyone says it's chinese lanters or CGI or weather balloons, but they don't bring any evidence to support their claim such as: Someone saying they released lanterns out that night or perhaps a video of a lantern doing the same things that the video of the "UFO" is doing, or maybe do a few searches on the town and see if someone let a weather balloon out recently, or even a picture or video of the atmospheric things in the sky that look like ufos, but aren't I mean if they happen so often how come none of those are on tape? So, what I'm saying is I agree with you in a sense(matrix), because; there is in fact ways to find evidence to support the claims of it being a non-UFO, but most of the time people don't bring that to the table is what your saying right? They just bring the drool and not the supporting words of any "possible" evidence, right or wrong?
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Exactly,
They act like any opinion should be considered evidence.
So a picture or video will be posted in this folder. By the end of the thread the pseudoskeptics know it's balloons or CGI without a shred of evidence.
The picture or video has not been examined and the eyewitness statements are niot even know, yet the pseudoskeptic is psychic and they can tell you what it is without any evidence.
If you say they are chinese lanterns, then we can check the area and see if any were released, we can have an expert tell us what characteristics are consistent with chinese lanterns and which are not.
The pseudoskeptic doesn't realize that when you make a claim, then you need to provide evidence to support the claim. It has nothing to do with "proving a negative."
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
You don't understand what evidence is.
You are talking about your opinion of the evidence when it comes to alien abductions. I didn't ask for your opinion.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
I asked for evidence for and against the proposition. Your opinion is not evidence of anything.
These alien abduction cases are evidence for extraterrestrial/extradimensional visitation.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
The people who experience these things tell you exactly what they saw and experienced.
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Do you have evidence that all of these cases were governments dressing up as extraterrestrials and abducting these people in space craft?
Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Again, the pseudoskeptic and debunker live in fantasy land. They think they can make a claim but they don't feel they need to show any evidence to support their claim.