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What's the evidence against extraterrestrials and or extraterrestrial visitation?

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posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Matrix Rising
 


we have proof people lie, we have proof people hallucinate we have proof people suffer from sleep paralyses.

we have no proof we are being visited by ET beings. We have no video or photographic evidece of abduction. If you want to accept stories as the basis of the reality you live in your welcome. Just dont expect everyone else to do the same.





posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Unlike you, I can quote exactly what you said...

I can quote Doomsday, but with me he/she has to make up things.


So now you're claiming I made those quotes up? Previously, you said that you stand by everything I had quoted from you. Now you're saying that they aren't true. Very interesting. The lies from Matrix Rising continue


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
You said, that you never said it but you did.


Except, that's not what you asked. What you asked was...


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Explain to me how asking these questions has anything to do with proving a negative or proving that aliens don't exist.


...in response to this post where I was pointing out your lies; you repeatedly asked for evidence against extraterrestrials and extraterrestrial visitation, then lied and said you never did.


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
You couldn't quote me directly, you had to make it up because you wanted to debate against a claim that I never made.


I have quoted you, directly and repeatedly. Now you're trying to say it is all made up.


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
I never said anything about evidence that extraterrestrials don't exist.


Yes you did, its in the very first post of the thread. Everyone can see it.

If...


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
What's the evidence and argument that supports reducing life in the galaxy to earth?


...doesn't mean "what evidence is there extraterrestrials don't exist" then what does it mean?


[edit on 14-11-2009 by DoomsdayRex]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
...This shows that you can't debate the issue and you are just trying to debate everything but the evidence because you can't debate the issue...


Matrix Rising --

You haven't answered my question, so I'll ask again:

Who are you hoping to debate with? Most of the skeptics I know here on ATS will NOT say it is impossible for alien visitation to be occurring, nor will they say is it impossible for other intelligent life to exist in the universe, nor say that it is absolutely impossible to travel from other star systems in a relatively short period of time.

Therefore what kind of evidence against extraterrestrial visitation are you looking for?

The usual skeptics here on ATS will not provide the kind of evidence you ask for in the thread title, because they are open to the possibility of these things.

I don't know if your game is to ask a question that you know cannot be answered, then say "Ha! I told you those pseudoskeptics don't have the answers to my questions" when nobody answers you.


As I said before, I think it IS possible that ET visitation is ccurring, but I don't think there is enough evidence to say that it IS occurring. I think you'll find most skeptics agree with that assertion, albeit to varying degrees.

The ball is now in your court to respond to me, so please do so.

[edit on 11/14/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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People this thread is just going in circles. Matrix responds with the same thing over and over again, and people keep trying to get him to see the same points over and over again.

I say just stop responding and let this thread die.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by DoomsdayRex
 


You really look sill Doomsday.

You asked:



Originally posted by Matrix Rising
What's the evidence and argument that supports reducing life in the galaxy to earth?

...doesn't mean "what evidence is there extraterrestrials don't exist" then what does it mean?


First, you should have asked me , what does it mean, before you made up a lie as to what it means and then tried to debate that lie throughout the thread.

This is truly sad.

You read something I posted. You then are under the delusion that it has to mean what you think it means and then you debate against the point that you made up LOL.

Can anyone say, pseudoskeptic?

This whole thread has been about evidence. You ask questions in a debate in case you didn't know. I asked the question because I wanted to know if there was evidence or an argument that reduces life in the galaxy to earth. All of these cases that I listed and you ignored don't have a terrestrial explanation at this time. So these cases are called unidentified even though the eyewitness tells us what they saw and experienced and these cases have been investigated.

This is why I kept saying based on the available evidence, not future possibilities or opinions.

If you didn't understand the context of the debate, you should have asked instead of making things up and then debating against the points that you made up in your mind.

I have been saying over and over that this debate is based on the available evidence, not any and every possibility. If you didn't understand that you should have said something.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by OldManReilly
People this thread is just going in circles. Matrix responds with the same thing over and over again, and people keep trying to get him to see the same points over and over again.

I say just stop responding and let this thread die.


Nope, Matrix has listed evidence and debated the available evidence.

The pseudoskeptic doesn't want to debate the issue.

They haven't debated the issue or the evidence.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
...This shows that you can't debate the issue and you are just trying to debate everything but the evidence because you can't debate the issue...


Matrix Rising --

You haven't answered my question, so I'll ask again:

Who are you hoping to debate with? Most of the skeptics I know here on ATS will NOT say it is impossible for alien visitation to be occurring, nor will they say is it impossible for other intelligent life to exist in the universe, nor say that it is absolutely impossible to travel from other star systems in a relatively short period of time.

Therefore what kind of evidence against extraterrestrial visitation are you looking for?

The usual skeptics here on ATS will not provide the kind of evidence you ask for in the thread title, because they are open to the possibility of these things.

I don't know if your game is to ask a question that you know cannot be answered, then say "Ha! I told you those pseudoskeptics don't have the answers to my questions" when nobody answers you.


As I said before, I think it IS possible that ET visitation is ccurring, but I don't think there is enough evidence to say that it IS occurring. I think you'll find most skeptics agree with that assertion, albeit to varying degrees.

The ball is now in your court to respond to me, so please do so.

[edit on 11/14/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]


Again, if you can't debate against the proposition then your position, if you have one, is in trouble.

For instance, I was on another board and I asked for evidence against psychic ability.

I didn't ask for evidence that psychic ability doesn't exist.

One person said, psychics claim to have helped police but this is not the case.

I listed 10 cases where psychics helped police with a case and the police who investigated the case will vouch for the psychic.

Again, this has nothing to do with evidence that psychic ability doesn't exist.

I think pseudoskeptics and debunkers know the difference, but they are playing dumb because there's so much evidence for the proposition.

I'm not talking about any possibility or opinion but the available evidence.

This truly shows the flawed position of the pseudoskeptic and debunker.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Again, if you can't debate against the proposition then your position, if you have one, is in trouble....

...I'm not talking about any possibility or opinion but the available evidence.

This truly shows the flawed position of the pseudoskeptic and debunker.


You are absolutely right -- I have no evidence that ET visitation is not happening. I think most good skeptics will also say there is no evidence that ET visitation is NOT happening. Skeptics usually don't operate like that.

Is that what you want to hear? I (and others) have been saying that over and over again. The only people who would offer evidence that ET visitation CANNOT be happening are the closed-minded type of skeptic, and they don't seem to be on this thread (probably because there aren't too many of that type of skeptic on ATS).

Now that your question has been answered, can we please now either end this thread, or can you take this thread to wherever you planned to take it once you got an answer.

Like I said in my last post in which I answered your question -- the ball is in your court.


[edit on 11/14/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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Hello, my name is Martin,
I found many flaws with the idea of alien visitation after researching it thoroughly. First of all, if a UFO from a different Galaxy or Solar System, visits our Earth, they have to enter through into the Earths atmosphere, which could cause the craft to burn up without a heat protective outer layer, if they pass this first obstacle, they would be faced with our oxygen, we survive by respiring oxygen, but it coulod prove fatal for extra terrestrial life forms, who may not breath oxygen on their planet. If they surpass this they are then faced with the problem of Gravity. We have grown used to the fact of Gravity and have adjusted to it, if their planet has stronger of weaker Gravitional forces, this could prove disastrous.
Ther are a few more reasons which I will not explain in detail,
Thankyou



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Martin123
 

Humans have visited the Moon wearing spacesuits and re-entered into Earth's atmosphere.

If humans can visit the Moon and return to Earth safely, then potentially aliens could visit Earth safely, also.


[edit on 11/14/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Again, if you can't debate against the proposition then your position, if you have one, is in trouble....

...I'm not talking about any possibility or opinion but the available evidence.

This truly shows the flawed position of the pseudoskeptic and debunker.


You are absolutely right -- I can't provide evidence that ET visitation is not happening. Most good skeptics also can NOT offer evidence that ET visitation is not happening. Skeptics usually don't operate like that.

Is that what you want to hear? I (and others) have been saying that over and over again. The only people who would offer evidence that ET visitation CANNOT be happening are the closed-minded type of skeptic, and they don't seem to be on this thread (probably because there aren't too many of that type of skeptic on ATS).

Now that your question has been answered, can we please now either end this thread, or can you take this thread to wherever you planned to take it once you got an answer.

Like I said in my last post in which I answered your question -- the ball is in your court.


[edit on 11/14/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]


You just proved my point.

Based on the available evidence, there's only evidence for the proposition and there isn't any evidence against the proposition.

This is because there's thousands and thousands and thousands of pages of evidence for the proposition.

Again, I didn't ask for evidence that extraterrestrial visitation CANNOT be happening.

I asked for evidence that extraterrestrial visitation is not happening based on the available evidence.

If it's not extraterrestrial visitation, then what is it?

I'm not asking for your opinion or speculation, I'm asking for evidence against the proposition based on the available evidence.

If you can't debate against the proposition, then your position is flawed.

What are you basing your skepticism on? Is this just your personal belief?

You mean to tell me out of all the available evidence that has accumulated over the years, the skeptics only have opinion and wild speculation to counter the evidence?

You can easily show extraterrestrial visitation is not happening, if you can provide a terrestrial explanation for all of these cases. You know many of these cases have been around for years and they didn't just happen yesterday.

I would think skeptics would have more than their opinion to counter the evidence.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
You just proved my point.

THAT was your point? Really? That "there is no evidence that can properly be offered against alien visitation?"

This thread lasted much too long, then. That's not much of a revelation.



Based on the available evidence, there's only evidence for the proposition and there isn't any evidence against the proposition.
This is because there's thousands and thousands and thousands of pages of evidence for the proposition.

There is no debate over the quantity of evidence, only the quality of the evidence. I (and I'm sure others) concede there is a large quantity of evidence.

However, the debate over the quality of the evidence is bigger than this thread, and is basically the point of the whole "Aliens and UFOs" forum on ATS.



If it's not extraterrestrial visitation, then what is it?

That depends on what you say "it" is specifically. "It" could be a mis-identification, or a report by a "delusional" person, or a hoax, or a natural phenomenon. Also "it" could actually be alien visitation. That's still a possibility.



What are you basing your skepticism on? Is this just your personal belief?

The lack of quality evidence FOR specific alien visitation reports.



You mean to tell me out of all the available evidence that has accumulated over the years, the skeptics only have opinion and wild speculation to counter the evidence?

You can easily show extraterrestrial visitation is not happening, if you can provide a terrestrial explanation for all of these cases. You know many of these cases have been around for years and they didn't just happen yesterday.

Which case specifically do you want a terrestrial explanation for? I can't give you a "catch-all" explanation, because such an explanation does not exist.



I would think skeptics would have more than their opinion to counter the evidence.

Like I said, I suppose we could counter specific evidence, but do you really want to do that on this thread? Besides, you haven't given us any specific evidence to counter. That's usually easier to do case-by-case and thread-by-thread.


[edit on 11/14/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


Again, I'm not debating opinion or speculation but the available evidence.

I'm not asking, what could it be. I'm asking what is it based on the available evidence.

We always weigh the availble evidence within reason as to what's most likely and what's less likely.

I have listed evidence throughout this thread but the pseudoskeptics and debunkers kept debating against things I never said.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
First, you should have asked me , what does it mean, before you made up a lie as to what it means and then tried to debate that lie throughout the thread.


You never did tell us what you mean by it. You have only said what you don't mean. Which is nonsensical. How can you possibly claim...


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
What's the evidence and argument that supports reducing life in the galaxy to earth?


...isn't asking for evidence life exists only on Earth? The fact is, you were called out and are trying to lie your way out of it. It isn't working. Everyone can see you are a liar, Matrix Rising. There is no point debating you, because you are a liar and you cannot debate someone who refuses to have an honest debate.


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
You read something I posted. You then are under the delusion that it has to mean what you think it means and then you debate against the point that you made up.


There is absolutely no difference between...


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
What's the evidence and argument that supports reducing life in the galaxy to earth?


..and asking what evidence is there that we are alone in the galaxy. None whatsoever with the exception of wording. If there is a difference, please tell us the difference. You have still not done that yet.


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Can anyone say, pseudoskeptic?


Can we say liar?


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
If you didn't understand the context of the debate, you should have asked instead of making things up and then debating against the points that you made up in your mind.


I did ask, at least twice. You never answered. You refused to answer. Instead, you accused me of making up quotes. You outright lied; everyone can go back and see that I did not make up a single quote from you.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
For instance, I was on another board and I asked for evidence against psychic ability.

I didn't ask for evidence that psychic ability doesn't exist.


There is absolutely no difference between the two statements. You are trying to make a semantic argument to back up your continuous lying.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
If you didn't understand that you should have said something.


I understand completely what this thread is about. It is not a debate or discussion but you lecturing, a rather long-winded lecture based on several logical fallacies. There was never a debate intended about evidence but another one of your tiresome attacks on skeptics to make yourself feel better about your insecure beliefs. I did not debate you because it is better to point out these fallacies and your lies, to expose you for what you are.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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Doomsday, you look really silly because your trying to debate against something I never said because you can't debate the issues.

This is a Junior High debating tactic. When you can't debate the issue, you try to debate against everything else but the issue.

You tried to project a meaning onto something I said and then build an argument based on that projeted meaning that you made up in your mind.

The debate is obvious, you just don't want to debate the issue because you can't and your trying to make it up as you go.

Face it, you have been caught with your hand in the cookie jar LOL.

You said:

In other words, what is the evidence and argument that extraterrestrials don't exist?

This is you debating a point that you made up in your own mind.

Soylent Green finally admitted that he/she understands what I'm saying and I suspect you do to.

You know how foolish you look when you try to debate everything but the issue and the evidence. I'm sure you will try to avoid the evidence like the plague but it's obvious that you want to debate a point that I never made.

Again, this is not in other words but your own words:

Originally posted by Matrix RisingWhat's the evidence and argument that supports reducing life in the galaxy to earth?

In other words, what is the evidence and argument that extraterrestrials don't exist?


I never said anything about evidence that extraterrestrials don't exist. This is just something you made up in your mind because you can't debate the issue.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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Again,

The pseudoskeptic and debunker has no evidence to support their claims. They want to yell out anything in a vacuum without any evidence.

They will say, it's a weather balloon, it's a bird, he's lying, he's hallucinating but they don't thin they need any evidence to support their claims.

This is they want to remain in a constapated state of possibility.

Out of all the evidence we have accumulated over the years, the pseudoskeptic needs to come to the table with more than their opinion and wild speculation.

The reason they keep trying to debate a point that I never made, is because they have no evidence. They want to be able to yell out any silly opinion or wild speculation without any evidence.

They will say, the guy could be lying or hallucinating. This means nothing when the case has been investigated and there's no evidence to support this claim.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix RisingI never said anything about evidence that extraterrestrials don't exist. This is just something you made up in your mind because you can't debate the issue.


There is no difference between the two statements, Matrix Rising. None, whatsoever. If there is a difference you have yet to tell us what the difference is, so I will ask you one more time.

If...


Originally posted by Matrix Rising
What's the evidence and argument that supports reducing life in the galaxy to earth?


...does not mean "evidence that extraterrestrials don't exist", then what does it mean? Because there is no difference between the two questions aside from wording. So, please tell us what you mean.



posted on Nov, 14 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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I was reading through the pages and laughed everytime I saw MatrixRising post. He really could not understand the simple logic Johnny was trying to point out. You are blind, MatrixRising. Blinded by your own eyes. You refuse to see that you can't have evidence for something NOT EXISTING. You can have evidence that something isn't in a single place at one time. I don't see an alien in my living room right now, so therefore I have evidence/PROOF that there is no alien in my living room. It is still impossible to prove that something DOESN'T exist. Why??

Because A) If it DOES exist, no evidence can be found that it doesn't or B) If it DOESN'T exist, no evidence can be found that it doesn't. Because IT DOESN'T EXIST. SAME REASON. Therefore it's a paradox. Therefore IMPOSSIBLE.




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