I'm Leaving America

And in our neighbour country: Finland - they have one of the freest gun laws in the world! - and when I lived in Switzerland everyone had their assault rifles at home - often hanging easy accessible on the wall

Aren't all Swiss people members of the Swiss army by definition, or something?

You have to bear in mind the nature of a society. Switzerland and America couldn't be more different: America is a highly individualistic, loose society; Switzerland is probably the most voluntarily law abiding society in the world.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Franz]

You probably won't mind if I use your thread as a reason to post
this. Don't assume your into rock or anything, but from now on
when you here this song.

Check out the other versions as well.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by randyvs]

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Ulala


To dragonsmusic,

I'm sorry that some people replied to you with rudeness. You sound like a young romantic, reminding me much of myself in my 20s. I know how you feel and I've been in that place emotionally (also being a musician).

There is nothing wrong with you feeling this country is shattered. That's because it is!

No one should make you feel bad about wanting to leave if that's what you feel is best for you. You will find great things about other countries. But it's also true that America, even in its downfall, still has many things above others. Sometimes you need to experience what else is out there in order to appreciate what you do have. But you might also find yourself in a place better suited to your needs.

Whatever the case, I wish you well on your journey. Everyone is entitled to check it out!

I myself, being of Slovakian descent, would love to go back to that homeland and the Czech Republic to see Praha (Prague) where I've heard there are lots of castles and strolling musicians. My kind of place. I do believe there's a certain lack of culture here in the U.S. that I hope you can find there!

Best wishes!

reply to post by lonewolf_guam

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.........lonewolf

Did you think of that all by your lonewolfself?
Or are you too lazy to read the entire thread before helping out?
Or is it really just a knee jerk reaction from one?
That comment has only been made like ten times already!
(nice contribution btw)
Are you always this nice and helpfull to other americants?
Why didn't you call him some names too.
It would fit your personality and candor.
I thought ATS had a policy against one line posts......
I know theres one about decorum!

Originally posted by dizziedame
You give me good laugh young man.

Tell us, how many other countries have you visited or lived in?

Granted There Are some South American countries I dearly loved but would not want to move permanently.

And even thinking that Mexico has clean water and food makes me laugh even harder. But I cried when I was in Mexico seeing the people get sick and die from bad water and food.

So you want to wander around Europe playing your guitar and enjoying life.

Why not go all over the world on missions that help people and play for them?

I'd like to see your face when you wake up to life one day.

It sure isn't roses, wine and friendly Europeans or any country for that matter.

By all means leave and see what the world is really like.

I expect you'll come back home wagging your tail behind you but a much wiser young man.

Oh, and thanks for your loyalty to the country you were birthed and coddled in.

Why do you think people from all,over the world risk all just for a chance to come to America. It isn't for McDonald's Hamburgers I assure you.

But go if you must. Just don't get in line for government assistance when you come back to America. That is if you make it back.

Go for a visit if you must but don't give up on America. It's still a grand old country and it's here I'll take my stand.

This man has summed up my thoughts EXACTLY.

2nd line.

reply to post by mitman93

I could be wrong but I think he is a she...
I have to agree, the grass looks greener on the other side.
It doesn't mean it is.
But hey, whats it hurt to go on a walkabout and find out?

It is still a wonderfull country, even though its had its glory.
For all my ranting, I love what this country use to be about.
I love the rights and freedoms and security we use to have.
The best is behind us now, unfortunatley.
Welcome to the great contraction!

I'm stayin' too.
Besides I'm prolly on the no fly um list by now, kemosabe!

Besides I like reading horror stories....

reply to post by dragonsmusic

Yes I do know you SFB, and many just like you. you're not special your quite pedestrian- an attention craving idealist with nothing of value to bring to the party so you drop out and say everyone who stays is a f*g- but deep down it is your fondest wish to be counted among them. bail missy bail.

Originally posted by Chevalerous


For me to get a gun licence here I need to have a clean record and register my guns with the autorities and keep them safe in a Security Gun Cabinet at home.

Same in America as far as I know. The legal way at least (for which I've never done).

reply to post by dragonsmusic






What ever happened to staying and trying to fix what is broken? Dont you want to see how it all ends, or can you not stomach what the recipe has in store for us?

I just got back from 6 months in India & I'M SO HAPPY TO BE BACK IN AMERICA!

Your gonna learn some real good lessons out there, pilgrim.

I lived in a hill town where travelers from all over the world came and went. Yes they all went back home to their own countries. In fact most never wanted to stay as long as I did. By chance I rented an apartment from an Indian man next to the community of Tibetans in exile. 99% of all my Tibetan neighbors would want to go home if they were aloud to. Let me say I left at the begining of 09 because I was unhappy. I work construction and I had no job and it didnt look good. I took all my savings and all my credit and got the hell out. It's so cheep to live in India.
One day I was talking to the young Tibetan lady who ran the store across the road and she asked me if I liked living in India, didn't I find it hard to live away from my own country. At first I thought no I like India. I live in the Himalayas with a great view. She had lived there for 9 years but she still wanted to go back home. She never felt that she could ever truly fit in.
She really made me think about the future and the possibility of never truly feeling at home. I then made the decision that running away from a bad situation and your own farked up goverment is just not happin' dude. I'm really happy I left and learned these lessons because I now know I can do whatever it takes to take back my country from these criminals that think they are running things. Or at least die knowning I tried my best.
But thats just me. There are people that love to travel all over the world. And just keep traveling all year long. But I'm sure they always know that they can return home if they ever need or want to.
Cheers Mate

Originally posted by Franz

And in our neighbour country: Finland - they have one of the freest gun laws in the world! - and when I lived in Switzerland everyone had their assault rifles at home - often hanging easy accessible on the wall

Aren't all Swiss people members of the Swiss army by definition, or something?

You have to bear in mind the nature of a society. Switzerland and America couldn't be more different: America is a highly individualistic, loose society; Switzerland is probably the most voluntarily law abiding society in the world.

Yes! Switzerland have the compulsory military service for all male Swiss citizens (women can serve voluntarily) They usually receive the marching order at the age of 19 for military conscription.

The structure of the Swiss militia system stipulates that the soldiers keep their own personal equipment, including all personal weapons, at home.

You get to keep your own assault rifle and get some ammunition to keep at home just in case. If you want to practice and do some shooting, you just go to the shooting-range where you can buy more "subsidized" ammo for your Sig 550 assault rifle.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/125dfd322bb9.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/94f1c7da7f2b.jpg[/atsimg]

(According to the rules, you are supposed to shoot up all the bought subsidized ammo there - but in reality all lot of people ignore or don't know about the rule, so they usually take half of the ammo home again)...

When you have done your basic training (boot camp) in the army land forces or airforce (obviously, Switzerland don't have any navy) you become a part of the Swiss militia.

Here is one Swiss guy from the Swiss militia/army shopping in a mini-market, maybe he's doing conscription service or are in the militia on his way to the shooting range for practice?


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c8c2d7ef3ff6.jpg[/atsimg]


But they are getting tougher gun laws in Switzerland as well, now there are tighter restriction on ammunition to be implemented I heard? I think it has to do with all the treaties with the EU which stipulates this.

Sweden and Finland also have compulsory military service for all males, but you don't get to keep your assault rifle at home after your military conscripton service - you must leave it there after your miltary service is done. After your "1 year" conscription traning in the military you go back from time to time for a couple of weeks of additional traning and rehearsals, where you sign your "Hancock" and recieve another weapon from the miltary just for those weeks.

Only if you are a member of the "weekend warriors" National Guard after your military service, then it's allowed to have an assault rifle at home in a security gun cabinet.

Sweden is BTW on its way to leave the conscription service for all males I think? - since a few years back, they take less and less males for military training each year - I think we will soon be a part of NATO or some EU Force [or NWO?] and therefore they are aiming for another system to have a more "paid soldiers army" instead.

Well I'm anyway thankful for my 13 month military conspription service, it tought me how to survive in the wilderness as an Arctic Ranger on basically nothing in the "winter survival training course" - great surviving skills to have the rest of your life for sure! - if the SHTF that is!

You said:

You have to bear in mind the nature of a society. Switzerland and America couldn't be more different: America is a highly individualistic, loose society; Switzerland is probably the most voluntarily law abiding society in the world.

Sorry for my ignorance and I must be stupid, but what did you mean with this? do you mean that the Swiss are more law abiding and therefore more trusted by the authorities to keep guns at home or the other way around? - sorry but I didn't fully get that part!

No! the only reasons why I wrote all this was because I have often seen here on ATS that a lot of Americans are under the impression and believe that "Guns" are totally forbidden here in Europe which is not entirely correct!

(Just take a look at the crazy gun culture in the former Yugoslavian Balkan states! - they loooove their guns and always has!)...

Sure! we have very strict gun laws and they require you to have licences for your weapons and behave good with them in general, but in many European countries if you have done your military service, they apparently trust you enough how to handle them and to keep them at home.

And of course! I can't be seen running around the city or downtown equipped to the teeth with arms like a lunatic - but they trust us enough to keep them at home and for transporting them to the shooting-range or be equipped with arms and gear for hunting out in the country-side, out of the city!

One thing that I find is funny here though, is that while they are tougher with licences for pistols and revolvers, but they let us have shotguns and powerful rifles/Sniper rifles or if you are a "weekend warrior" a fully automatic assault rifle in those cases - but a licence for a pistol could take considerably long time and approvals to get!

Of course we can't be compared with the nice free and liberal gun laws in America, but maybe our authorities & miltary systems want and prefer us to practice and keep our shooting skills updated with our "military weapons" and rifles instead, to be prepared and trained in case of war?

Well I have nothing against that policy then! I prefer my rifles and shotguns anyday before any measly pistols or revolvers!

I mean, what a heck could I do with my pistol that I can't do with a shotgun or rifle if the SHTF?

OK! in close combat a pistol is very useful to have, but anyway!


[edit on 11-11-2009 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by Franz
reply to post by dragonsmusic

 

So there was slavery in America: but the Americans who owned slaves were mostly British in descent; and Britain retained its slave trade until the 18th Century. It's easier for us to sweep it under the carpet, though, because we don't have the descendants of the slaves living among us.

I visited America for the first time 7 years ago and have been there 4 times since. There is a lot I like about America, although I think there is a lot wrong with it, too. The variety of scenery is fantastic, and the friendliness and openness of the people is a breath of fresh air after living among the taciturn, lazy, complaining British.

Don't imagine that Europeans are necessarily more sophisticated than Americans, either. Not in Britain, anyway. Education here is third-rate (definitely worse than in America) and most Britons have zero interest in culture. Our famous sense of humour has largely degenerated into crass, cruel sarcasm. Drunken louts and knife-wielding teenagers roam the streets. Achievement of any kind - unless you count being a pop star or a contestant on a reality TV show - is regarded with envy and suspicion.


[edit on 10-11-2009 by Franz]

Wow. A self hating Brit, eh? Well, should I say "a typical Brit"?

To say that the majority of Americans who owned slaves were British is ridiculous! You know very well that anyone who could afford to, owned a slave, no matter their ancestry and, by the time we are talking about, there were more people of German ancestry in the USA than British, so you can't even say that more slaves were owned by British civilians.

I can't really understand why you would say that, if it isn't just for the sake of demeaning your country, as Britons are wont to do. You were wrong anyway, in actuality and in design.

Never forget that Britain was the first country to ban and make illegal buying slaves, they then made it illegal to own slaves (even if they were bought before the ban), making all British slaves free men and women and they finally made the whole business of slavery illegal, with mass support from the House of Commons, House of Lords, Royal House and, most importantly, the population! read William Wilburforce' memoirs, if you would like to see how the people of Great Britain viewed slavery at this time.

British war ships would then spend their time patrolling British shipping lanes, on the look out for slave ships. if they found a slave ship in British waters, they would attack, board and free the slaves and try the ships crew. This happened against all countries, specifically America, who considered what they did legal and what the UK was doing by stopping them illegal and even a declaration of war. The UK Navy continued though, knowing that the USA or another country would be within their rights to consider it an act of war, plunging the UK into overseas military action. Luckily no country was confident enough to declare war on Britain.

UK education is third rate? Worse than the USA? prove that please (not saying you are wrong but your words should not be automatically taken as fact by anyone here.

You say that most Britons have zero interest in culture? I say bollocks! I presume you are getting your proof from certain social economical groups, finding the answer you want and then looking for another subculture to further prove another point, all with the purpose of demeaning Britain and the British.
Yes, you will find many young scrotes who couldn't tell you who/what Prokofiev, Dostoevsky, Affizi or Paradise Lost is and wouldn't have any interest if you were to introduce them but that goes for youth of all countries. the youth who baulk at the above still have their own culture and still have a love for another kind of culture. Just because you don't like or understand that culture doesn't make them totally without culture!

I think you are transferring the attitude of the few onto that of the many and that is completely unfair and skewed.

We could make South Central LA sound like paradise and Yellow Stone park sound like an apocalyptical dump, if we described without any objectivity, only concentrating on the parts of those two places which back up our Goebbells like statements.

I do understand what you are getting at though, and you're right. The OP isn't going to find anything in particular that he can't at home. But give the UK some credit, it has more pro's than it does con's and besides, the OP would be doing the complete opposite to what you've done. Where you have looked and found the worst parts of our society, he will be looking and finding the best... and good luck too him.

Originally posted by Badgered1
reply to post by Zenagain

 

I'd guess his "political leanings" are something like "Surrender at the first gunshot". He'll do well in France.

Are you sure you feel comfortable on a website where the tag is "Deny Ignorance"?

WW2 started in 1939. USA didn't hear the bugle, apparently, until 1941
WW1 started in 1914. USA didn't hear that particular bugle until 1917

I make that, between the two world wars, five years of France fighting where the USA wasn't.

Surrender at the first gunshot? They hide the real information in books.

The USA didn't even enter the field of WWI until midway through 1918, meaning they only fought for a few months.

As I said in an earlier post. France has a magnificent military record, one of the best in the World. The USA couldn't even dream to achieve the success of France and I say that as a Brit. As everyone knows, the British and the French aren't overly keen on complimenting each other but when I see the same old boring ignorance that I always seen to be reading and hearing from Americans, I just have to stand up for France (as France apparently have trouble standing up for themselves! Arf! Joke, joke!! Ironic satire!!)

Originally posted by DINSTAAR


To quote a student film I made a while back,
"The grass isn't greener on the other side, and it is not that our grass is very green. Simply, there is no grass at all on the other side."

Erm.... wow!...

I mean... this student film? It was a spoof, surely? You were going for a Police Squad/Airplane/Naked Gun type thing? No?

The Dalai Lama certainly has nothing to worry about, does he?

Poor old Oscar must be spinning in his grave!

[edit on 11-11-2009 by triplesod]

Originally posted by manmaidslave
Goodbye,
All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to LEAVE!!!
Goodybe

Yeah, you tell 'em!!

Dragonsmusic?! Think of the evil!! Why won't you think of the evil?!?!?!



evil

Originally posted by Chevalerous

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by BlesUTP
you are leaving one of the only countries in the world where you can arm yourself.

Are... you... .....Kidding me?

______________________

Yeah! I really would like to know why our American friends have this misunderstanding about guns & arms in Europe?

I think you're missing the point a bit there, mate.

I think what the person you are quoting meant was that it is pretty pathetic that somepeople could never consider embracing and experiencing other cultures and spending time seeing other nations because they don't have the open laws on fire arms that the USA does.

In other words. To restrict myself from travelling, seeing beautiful countries and meeting fantastic people, just because "I aint goin nowhere where I can't be free to pleaure mahself by lying in bed and strokin mah guns till we both explode with delight!"

[edit on 11-11-2009 by triplesod]

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
There are many countries better to live in than America.

The only problem is, they may not be interested in taking you, because you are American.

Try to apply for citizenship to an Embassy of your favourite European country, and be prepared to be very disappointed.

While any one can get into America, other countries are far more selective on who they will accept as a legal immigrant..





[edit on 9/11/2009 by Silver Shadow]

I can tell you that US immigration make it nigh-on impossible to immigrate to unless you've got a US family or a degree-level education forget it.

Forget the lottery program too. That only works for certain country's the UK and some other '1st world' countries are barred from that.

reply to post by dragonsmusic


As a Native American I'd like to remind you that native ppl all over
the world have been killed by the colonial powers of the past.

As for slavery if you think it originated here you might want to pick
up a few more or few different history books.

America has had some deep flaws from day 1, and I think you will
find that true of most countries thru time.

If you want to bash America come up with a reason that has not
also hung as a lodestone around the other many nations of the world.

The only one I can easily think of is we are the only power to
use an atomic weapon on a civilian population.

That is pretty bad, and some of the back story of it makes it look
worse if the story about it is in fact true.

The part a lot of ppl forget is the fire bombing of the japanese
cities killed more ppl than the nukes.

We bombed many cities, and because the cities were largely built
of wood it burned intensely.

Japan murdered more civilians in China than japanese died due
to the nukes as well.

So all sides had bad blood on their hands.

I don't see it ending in my lifetime or a few after it.

It will take some exterior threat or near self annihilation for the
world to truly want peace, and for the religious zealots that
may not even be enough.

Good Luck to you all !



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

Well kiddo, I wish you well........HOWEVER

NO PLACE is going to be as you want it......but go anyway, 'cause if you don't you'll always wonder, 'what if??'

But you have to realize that every place, country, etc., has its faults....some bigger, some smaller........

So while the USA has many problems, etc., so does every place else.....But I wish you future happiness and good health!

I have often thought of leaving myself, but the fact is this is my home. These things going on isnt limited to the US.. it is global but I wish you luck. = )

Good luck! Watch out for yourself. I know how it is. I (and much of my family) will be moving to Finland during the summer next year. I've sold my home a few days ago and getting ready to go. My brother has his home on the market. Everything looks good so far because my dad and I will be relocating our businesses. I'll miss some of the people and co-workers but, can always visit.

(For those that feel they have to spank about veterans and all that consider that my dad is in fact a veteran and he is excited about leaving! )

Chin up. If you are really good once established perhaps you would like to audition your guitar work. Perhaps I will be able to offer session work for you if you come through.