I'm Leaving America

I think it's good you want to travel...alot of people find that their dreams and hopes actually become reality! Then again alot of people don't and return within a year. In any case it should be mandatory to experience other cultures and peoples. If you like what you see and feel like you could quite happily spend the rest of your life in *insert country here* by all means do it. Just don't think it will be an easy transition. As for many of the "replies" from Americans, quite sad really to read and i hope you don't take them seriously. You may want to come back to America after your travels, you may not. Either way you will gain some new experiences that will benefit you as a person.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Solomons]

Send us all a postcard.
Also, save this note and reread it in twenty years, and don't be too hard on yourself when you look back.
KE

reply to post by dragonsmusic


As a Brit, I have travelled throughout a lot of Europe over the years and although there are some beautiful places and some really nice people, I think you may have over romanticised Europe a little and may be headed for disappointment. Most of Europe isn't much different to USA (and yes I've been to the States), other than language, some very minor cultural differences and the history.

I have honestly never seen roaming bands of gypsy musicians or anything similar. I have however seen heavy metal bands in Prague, a reggae band in Eindhoven (Holland) and a pretty good Bavarian Oompah band at Munich's Oktoberfest

But for God's sake, if you want change from America, please don't come to the UK. The only difference is the accent and lack of guns (well, legal ones anyway, all the crooks have got 'em). We seriously may as well be the 51st State!!

Originally posted by badkarma90
I'm right behind you, brother.

After hearing about these so-called straight edge kids who go around carving people up just for smoking a cigarette, I'm thinking maybe the netherlands.

Holland has beautiful women...

Oh Hell Yes!!! I spent a week drooling. It must be something to do with all the bikes

reply to post by dragonsmusic


Don't be a dolt. I travel extensively. People piss and moan everywhere. Do you really believe the government is any less intrusive in Europe? The EU is as, if not more, full of stupid and inane rules as the US. It's expensive as hell and the weak greenback doesn't help. Having said that, go for it. Busking can be a lot of fun if you hook up with the right people in the right place. Try Nice, France or Barcelona if you like good weather. The food can be great but Mickey D's is just as popular there as here. Walk down the Champs Elysee and you'll see as many fast food restaurant as you would here. If it's not an American chain. It's a European chain.

Originally posted by bettermakings
Europe is fast changing, sorry to be the one to tell you. Radical Muslim immigrants have created ghettos in most of the major cities, increasing crime rates. The governments lean toward socialism. Unemployment is often higher than America. It's an aging population. There are lots of problems.

I don't know where you're posting from, but here in the UK, the threat from radical Islam, IMO, is far less than the authorities and the Daily Mail claim. The authorities are using the supposed threat of terrorism to curtail our civil liberties, in preparation for the collapse of the world economy in a couple of years' time, when all hell will break loose.

And much as many people would like to think so, crime is not the monopoly of immigrants. In the UK there is a huge home-grown white underclass that commits a large majority of crimes, especially when they're drunk, which is most evenings.

As for the governments leaning towards socialism: that's only a problem if you don't like socialism. Personally, in the current economic climate, I'd rather be without a job in a European welfare state than in America, where the state leaves you high and dry.

reply to post by dragonsmusic

It's always a good thing to broaden one's horizons. However, I agree with those posters who say you shouldn't romanticise Europe. America doesn't have a monopoly on hypocrisy.

So there was slavery in America: but the Americans who owned slaves were mostly British in descent; and Britain retained its slave trade until the 18th Century. It's easier for us to sweep it under the carpet, though, because we don't have the descendants of the slaves living among us.

I visited America for the first time 7 years ago and have been there 4 times since. There is a lot I like about America, although I think there is a lot wrong with it, too. The variety of scenery is fantastic, and the friendliness and openness of the people is a breath of fresh air after living among the taciturn, lazy, complaining British.

Don't imagine that Europeans are necessarily more sophisticated than Americans, either. Not in Britain, anyway. Education here is third-rate (definitely worse than in America) and most Britons have zero interest in culture. Our famous sense of humour has largely degenerated into crass, cruel sarcasm. Drunken louts and knife-wielding teenagers roam the streets. Achievement of any kind - unless you count being a pop star or a contestant on a reality TV show - is regarded with envy and suspicion.

For me the main problem with America is its profligate use of natural resources, its refusal to accept limitations to growth, and its lack of public infrastructure. In Britain, you can manage without a car if you want to or if you have to. Not so in most parts of America I've been (with the exception of New York).

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Franz]

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
There are many countries better to live in than America.

The only problem is, they may not be interested in taking you, because you are American.

Try to apply for citizenship to an Embassy of your favourite European country, and be prepared to be very disappointed.

While any one can get into America, other countries are far more selective on who they will accept as a legal immigrant..





[edit on 9/11/2009 by Silver Shadow]

Better depends on your definition. Tibet at the turn of the century would have been a less than perfect place if someone wanted European luxury. Many Europeans would love to spend a few years in that Tibet ;some of them would probably like to move there permanently. Western Europe has many of the same problems America has; at the moment you are just more prosperous.. Europe could mean Eastern Europe.

If he just wants European culture. He could find that in some of the former Soviet Republics and North Africa. North Africa also has many great guitarists. His Spanish would come in useful in North Africa until he learned Arabic. He is an educated young man he has a better chance than most of finding a niche.

Why are you discouraging him? I suppose you could be concerned about his safety. Then again maybe you wish him to stay put on the plantation like a good slave. If he finds another country there will be no mortgages, and no car loans. He also won't be taxed into oblivion to pay for the NWO.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Franz]

reply to post by Zenagain

I'd guess his "political leanings" are something like "Surrender at the first gunshot". He'll do well in France.

Are you sure you feel comfortable on a website where the tag is "Deny Ignorance"?

WW2 started in 1939. USA didn't hear the bugle, apparently, until 1941
WW1 started in 1914. USA didn't hear that particular bugle until 1917

I make that, between the two world wars, five years of France fighting where the USA wasn't.

Surrender at the first gunshot? They hide the real information in books.

Originally posted by dragonsmusic
This country is shattered. It started upon its conception and the cracks have been growing throughout America's windshield like cobwebs in every direction.
It is a country which claimed to be founded on freedom, but it stomped out the essence of freedom when it enslaved the black man, slaughtered the red man, and kept the white woman at home, both jobless and without voting powers.
So America was doomed from the start with such a foundation.
As a citizen of this country I feel it is my duty to leave here with a respect for the nation that raised me and with a sense of peace.
It will be a couple of years before I leave America, but when I do it will be to spend the majority of my life in Europe. I will have completed my degree in Romance Languages at the University of Georgia.
As a guitar player , singer, songwriter, I long for the days when I travel through Europe playing and singing with other musicians.
I will be among the few American songwriters to travel to the regions of Spain and France where the music of the Gypsy Kings was inspired(and actually originates) and to actually jam with the musicians of the areas.
In the meantime I wonder what culturally minded ATSers feel with respect to America.
Are there other Americans like me who love this place but cannot stand to see what has become of it and are getting ready to leave? Or have already left?
Are the Europeans even interested in America, I mean in more than McDonald's and rock music? What does America offer Europe or the rest of the world these days? (though I do like McDonald's and rock music)
What countries do you Americans want to visit or even live in one day?
Where do you people of the ATS want to go , if you could go anywhere tomorrow? Where do you dream of spending your lives if it is not where you are now?

I to feel this country is shattered. Whose fault is that however? It is all of our own faults really.

I do not think it is easier to leave than stay and fight. You will find a lot of the same problems when you leave. Eventually those problems need to be handled.


The world is bad right now. Great! I agree. It is more the reason to fix things.


None of us are happy with the way the world works. It is our responsibility to fix things and not run from them.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Sevard]

reply to post by theRiverGoddess

it a VERY GOOD idea if you really want to eat fresh NON gen-mod, non poison food, and drink CLEAN non poisoned water.........even Mexico has better nutritionally packed produce available.....

Rhetoric sounds good, but without genetically altered produce, farm production worldwide would drop 1/3. Think of how many more people would starve.

Dragonsmusic,

You can't wash off the color of your skin and you had nothing to do with what your ancestors did. Be your own person and live your life without trying to live an apology for stuff your ancestry did. Race is just a divider. Go to Europe, not because of America and its corruption, but because that's what you want to do. I am sure you won't find a refuge from corruption, but if you have an open mind, you could make something good. Maybe all you need is a change of scenery.

To quote a student film I made a while back,
"The grass isn't greener on the other side, and it is not that our grass is very green. Simply, there is no grass at all on the other side."
We (the world, EU,USA,Aisa etc.) are all on the same side of the fence.

I have been all over the world, and Dorothy was right. Whether home be Columbus where I reside, a swamp in Louisiana, the jungle of Costa Rica, Munich, Sydney, Hong Kong, or a farm in Kansas, there is no place like home.

reply to post by badgerprints


No wonder so many folks want to bail on the USA. The hate expressed in this thread is evidence of something very very wrong in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

We have become a land of division as exemplified by the phrase "you people" that I see so often now.

The beauty of your choices is that you can take "America" with you where ever in the world you live. You can connect on the internet, etc. Foods and goods and services you may have to make due with whatever country you are in, but basically you can be an American anywhere you go. Also, the third world countries themselves will soon be "Americans" unless bad things happen. Because people in them are finding themselves able to connect with what is happening here and able to enjoy the things we enjoy. People who visit here from third world countries become "American" very fast.
That is the problem. The powers that be think we are using resources they would rather dominate. If high living were to continue and spread to other countries, along with the civil rights we claim to claim. their hegemony would be eventually be broken. That America is going down the tubes, is in large part to these nasty villains. They wormed their way into the government using the FED. They took over the medical system and nearly stomped out any aspect of it that does not give THEM a profit. They took over the news media and totally stopped the flow of news that is of any consequence, like what is happening to the government. News is supposed to spread ideas so that people can communicate back and forth and see through problems, especially problems about how the country should be run. But the villains have taken over and filter out all but what they think we need-to-know. They wormed their way into the schools using tax-exempt foundations to shape our children's opinions and make them more vulnerable to their manipulation
People just a few years ago used to think that all problems were solvable if enough people could look at them from enough angles, that the future depended on people getting together to share information. Universities and other groups spend money on conferences to get people together for things like that. People are going back and forth all over the place. But somebody wants to shut us down. Somebody wants to make travel harder and harder. They have all the answers or they can hire people to get them, this whole globe full of people is not necessary for their existence. People going back and forth and sharing their opinions is not necessary to the world as they would like to run it. So where did we let these people get the upper hand?
The swine flu was invented (or at least modified) by their hirelings. Yes the government was involved, but only because they infiltrated the govt and set up the CIA secure from review from the govt and overflowing with money from deceptions involving military budget sloppiness as evidenced in L. Fletcher Prouty's The Secret Team So this swine flu is getting pushed around by the bought out CDC, with approval from the bought out FDA by means of the inhaled version of the vaccine, which doesn't do anything except spread flu. Every one who takes the inhaled vaccine gets the flu. The point being that these villains are using the government to mess with us and make us sick. The point of that being to get us to take their squalene laced, mercury laced vaccines that if not actually lethal will at weaken our immune systems against whatever plague they have released in the Ukraine.
America was a wonderful place to live until these people came around. It would be great to have a complete list of their crimes.
Unfortunately for original poster, getting away isn't that easy because these people plan to dominate the whole earth. There must be some remote places to hide somewhere on the planet, but life anywhere is not going to be anywhere near as nice as it was or could have been. Life could have been different without these people

Can you imagine what it would have been like if people knew there was a cure for cancer. How many people would have lived. How many people wouldn't have spent $99,000 for chem therapy.
How many children would not be autistic. How many people would have avoided cancer that is still part of many vaccines. How many people would not have died in 911 and the following wars. How many leaders would not have been assassinated starting with JFK. How many people would not be suffering from liver damage from that stupid fluoride in the water. How many people would not have died in Vietnam. How many people would not have died in Katrina. How many people would not be having their homes forclosed on. How many people would not be worrying about Fema camps and coffins and dhs having training drills to herd people into them. We look overhead at chemtrails making plaids in the sky, dropping poisons on us.
When did we let these people take over and how do we get them rooted out of OUR system.



Also how many babies would not have been aborted.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by m khan]

Goodbye,
All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to LEAVE!!!
Goodybe

reply to post by dragonsmusic


I'm replying without reading the entire thread, 275 replies...I don't have that kind of time. I have to say that my husband and I have discussed this very thing and upon his retirement we also will be leaving the US. He's an active duty Marine & for someone who has had 2 tours in Iraq to say they're willing to abandon their country due to what it's become within the past year is astounding. His retirement isn't forthcoming any time soon, he's a lifer & even though could resign his commission tomorrow he won't, he loves what he does (his job). New Zealand is looking pretty darn good at this point. I honestly believe that we will see another Civil War(oxymoron)/Revolution within our lifetime.

Yeah this country is going to the tubes..... I haven't been free for decades due to a unfixable clerical error made by the NC state government.

I made a boo boo when I was a teenager that requires me to produce a 508 form to clear my name but by the time I had the money to take of it 508 forms no longer exist but due to a broken bureaucracy I'll never be able to get a driver license in the US.

Of course I can pay taxes on my vehicles, register them, and pay insurance on them but will never be able to legally drive them.

I am seriously considering leaving the US as I can not get normal average job due to this unremoveable mark on my record. The only way I can gain decent employment is by starting and running my own business where I can ignore my own legal record.

I am seriously considering moving to the Netherlands where I can marry a guy if i have to to get dual citizenship and finally get a driver's license LOL

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by BlesUTP
you are leaving one of the only countries in the world where you can arm yourself.

Are... you... .....Kidding me?

______________________

Yeah! I really would like to know why our American friends have this misunderstanding about guns & arms in Europe?

Well I can't speak for every European country, and sure as hell we have a lot stricter gun laws here - but guns are not forbidden like many Americans think.

For me to get a gun licence here I need to have a clean record and register my guns with the autorities and keep them safe in a Security Gun Cabinet at home.

Here in Scandinavia a lot of us are hunters and hunt - so many families have these security gun cabinets at home.

(Most people take a 3-days short 'Hunter Exam' course to get their first licence)

And if your are in the National Guard you can keep your assault rifle at home if you keep it safe & protected in your security gun cabinet - I guess this is allowed because in case there would be a war, so you can equip yourself rapidly and be ready in 15 minutes.

(the rest of us military trained males have to go to secret places in the woods to equip our assault rifles and other arms - I know where my "secret place" is located and it's quite near where I live)...

Once you get your first licence and doesn't do any thing stupid and are not breaking the laws, there's often not any problem to get additional licences for other Rifles, shotguns, handguns etc.

(they are tougher on handguns though)

But if you by the authorities are deemed unfit to be trusted to keep guns at home - they can in the worst cases revoke your licences.

In our neighbouring country: Finland - they have one of the freest gun laws in Europe! - and when I lived in Switzerland everyone had their assault rifles at home - often hanging easy accessible on the wall

You can of course not compare this with the liberal gun laws in the USA, but anyway! they are not forbidden here - just more regulated.

But getting a permit to carry a gun in public would be almost impossible if you don't have special reasons or anything work related which requires you to carry a gun.


[edit on 10-11-2009 by Chevalerous]

I love these “I’m leaving America” threads.

You have no idea of the real world, you cannot just leave America and Move to Europe. As a US citizen you can only stay in Europe for a max of 90 days without a Visa, in the 90 days you cannot work or study there. You would need a Visa, usually by getting an employer to sponsor you. It can take forever and can be very hard, before an employer can even sponsor you, they have to prove that they cannot find a citizen of that country or the EU that can do that job.

EU Citizens get first preference over every Non-EU citizen. What can you offer that one of the 499,794,855 EU citizens can’t? And with Iceland and Croatia about to join and add more EU Citizens to our population, the chances for Non-EU citizens (like Americans) gets even smaller.

Why would we take in American Citizens when we have enough EU citizens that are able to do the job?

You have pretty much no chance. Sorry to be blunt, but that’s the way it is.

One possible option is if you have a parent or grandparent from an EU country (usually Ireland or UK) you may be able to get an Irish/British Passport (citizen by descent), which is an EU Passport and gives you full rights in the EU without restrictions. But even then, the ancestry path can be hard to obtain the citizenship.

As for the suggestions of Australia. Do you even have enough points to migrate to Australia? Do you even know what the point’s migration system is in Australia? Do you have a skill, which is actually on the Skilled Migration list for Australia?

Australia is just as hard to get into. And unless you have enough points, a skill on the skills list or an employment sponsor, then again. Pretty much no chance.

You do need to get into the real world and learn about immigration and that you can’t just “move” to Europe or Australia because you feel like it. Most countries around the world have criteria and requirements you must meet before you can just move there.

The ignorance on these “I’m leaving America” threads just show that people don’t get out much.

This thread reminds me of when I was talking to an American before and he said he wanted to move to Australia, and I said, “you can’t just move here, you need a Visa” and he replied with “Oh, I have plenty of credit cards”

Mikey


[edit on 10/11/2009 by Mikey84]