World’s third largest ice store vanishing!

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars


We are so close now to a One World Govt it's not even funny anymore.

If they even had a NWO in place all the way, they would not do the simple and cheap solution.

Some of these people want to give them the ammunition for control and ignore the simple and cheap solution. Sometimes life is just simple, but that does not allow for coruption and power. Only human suffering does that.

Loam, you laugh at being called a Lib. Maybe you don't think of yourself this way, but from this angle you are the one's giving them the power to get the true Corupt Power they are looking for.

If you don't question those in Power, or those that desparetly seak it, then you do no one justuce, including yourself.

reply to post by jdub297


You are absolutely 95% correct. The only other part of the equastion you missed, was that we demand cheap products and labor from them at whatever cost to the environment. Like I stated in earlier posts, we need to put heavy tariffs on those products and services from countries that do not follow at least the current standards that we have hear in the USA.

But again, Power, Control, and Coruption get in the way.
If, the people do finally stand up to the Govt. and take it back, one of the by-products will be better restrictions on the actual problems.

I guess the Gun and God people might really be on to something. The only way to help any of these problems, is to fight and get out the Power and Coruption that is our Govt.

reply to post by HotSauce


the us is running out of drinking water too... so what u gonna do when all ur water is gone, me im lucky cause i live in the rainiest city in the world Bergen, we'll never ever ever run out of water here rains 260 days out of 365..

reply to post by j2000


Your posts are so riddled with assumptions, I hardly know where to start.

Originally posted by j2000
Loam, you laugh at being called a Lib. Maybe you don't think of yourself this way, but from this angle you are the one's giving them the power to get the true Corupt Power they are looking for.

I am? By pointing out one billion people in peril of losing their water supply and the likelihood they'll come gunning for where the water remains?

Neat trick.

I guess all of the world's problems can be solved by wishing them away and wrapping such delusions in comfortable, but vacuous, political philosophy.



I guess I should go buy some popcorn.


[edit on 9-11-2009 by loam]

Originally posted by loam

Hmmmm food for thought. What happened to the ancient Egyptians?

Incidentally, were a billion of them involved? How fast did it all happen? I'd like to see those links.

Humm, food for thought, what exactly could they have done except to "adapt"?

Please don't start with the ridiculous claims that the Climate Change we have been undergoing "is the fastest ever"....

BTW, in case you didn't know, ElectricUniverse = Muaddib.

Originally posted by loam

Stay on-topic.

Asking you what do you propose is going off topic??

Originally posted by loam
This isn't a global warming causation thread.

So what is it then? and again, what are you proposing?

Originally posted by loam
Post a single example demonstrating this specious statement.

You can't.

So you are claiming that you do not agree with the claims of the IPCC, Al Gore etc?...

i wonder what responses from you like this one are all about?...

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by Outland
The image below illustrates...
...

I hope you're all feeling really guilty now.

Outland

Thanks for the voodoo perspective on GHGs!

That's some profound scientific thinking there!

Ever happen to hear of the term GWP?

Here's to all things small!!!!

Cyanide cakes anyone?

www.acmi.net.au..." border=0>

Go on! Try some... The amount of sprinkles is very...very...small.

[edit on 22-8-2006 by loam]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by ZombieOctopus

 

Well lets all go back to the 16th century because some f'ing ice melted. There may well be global warming, but can you prove it is going to be any better or worse for humans than the temp 50 years ago.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by HotSauce]

The truth is that a modest increase in global climate by only a few degrees will kill the ocean's coral reefs. When the reefs die, so does everything that lives inside them. Then, all the species that eat those dwellers die off as well. Then, all the people who rely on fish as a primary source of nutrition get cut off, e.g., japan.

As the temperature rises, the growing season for the United States will actually get better. However, those countries located closer to the equator will have their season significantly shortened by temperatures that are too high.

Anyone who is dumb enough to think that the problem is humans getting a little sweat on their brow has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. We are part of a food chain that if disrupted could lead to widespread starvation of humans and massive extinction for many other species.

Also, let's no forget that the majority of people on Earth live on the coasts. Melt the ice caps and the oceans will rise and wipe out the most populated areas on the planet. Because we build a sea wall around New Orleans, soil cannot be redeposited to replace that which is carried out by the Mississippi. New Orleans is already far below sea level and continues to sink every year. They need pumps running 24/7 just to keep it from flooding. In a contest between man and nature, nature will always win.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
BTW, in case you didn't know, ElectricUniverse = Muaddib.

I should have recognized the non-responsive, specious posts.

Welcome back from wherever it was they banished you.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is your example of how I "like to blame mankind and agree with the fearmongering that the IPCC and others partake in."



I sooooo should have known it was you.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by loam]

reply to post by andrewh7


And there is nothing that can be done except adaptation.

Water vapor during periods of warming increases naturally and causes a feedback loop, which has been erroneously applied to CO2, when in the Troposphere which is the lowest atmospheric layer where all weather events occur water vapor accounts for 95%-98% of the greenhouse effect, meanwhile the rest of the ghgs account for 2%-5% of the greenhouse effect. Water vapor is 99.99% natural, and even CO2 levels are MOSTLY natural.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by kdubbicles

 

Originally posted by kdubbicles
Well if the global temperature has actually decreased, while water has disappeared, perhaps we should entertain the notion that someone may be stealing the water.

Since this is a conspiracy site, kdubbicles, your post deserves absolute respect.

(It would be fun to see a Skunk Works thread on the concept.)

[edit on 8-11-2009 by loam]

Loam, I stand corrected in regards to your position on this thread so far.
I re-read and found several others waving the Al Gore flag so to speak, but not you.

I do not take back the solutions I offered up and it would have an impact to the good for the polution problems of China.

I will also agree with kdubbicles, and wonder what the China Communist Govt is up too. Are they drilling for oil and using the water for that? They seem really hard up for oil and such, if they are creating large pockets from drilling and mining, it could be draining the lakes.

reply to post by j2000

Originally posted by j2000
Loam, I stand corrected in regards to your position on this thread so far.
I re-read and found several others waving the Al Gore flag so to speak, but not you.

No worries. Glad you took the time to re-read my posts.

reply to post by loam


Folks,
People really need to dig deeper into the science before doing all this hand-wringing about "Global Warming" - the Tibetan Plateau melting has been well documented over the last 16 years and is caused by techtonic uplift of the area (and the accompanying heat transfer from the underlying asthenosphere). I offer this paper co-authored by a French, English and American Geophysicists: www.agu.org... - this melting is a COMPLETELY Natural phenomenon, is ongoing and is unstoppable.

Manmade Global Warming does not exist - that's why (in the US anyway) the Politicians/business people who support have stopped using that term. They now say "Global Climate Change" because the SCIENCE doesn't support their original model. Nearly everything we were origianally told about "Global Warming" (more powerful hurricanes more often, large scale droughts in the US, etc.) have not come to pass - in fact, in most cases the OPPOSITE has been true (Fewer hurricanes and less powerful ones, floods instead of droughts, etc.).

I did some checking on what you are saying. I checked more than one website - looking for "current conditions" of the Tibetan Plateau. I suggest you do the same.
Here is one for you to take a look at Life on the Tibetan Plateau 2009.
Now, what I found was just the opposite. I found lakes WITH water in them. I found pictures of the people who live there with LIVING livestock - with lots of snow around them.
I am not saying that our planet and the things that we have been doing or have done don't need to change - but I just get so sick of this hyper fixation of the facts.
It is just like Al Gore now saying that cattle are the worst cause of Global Warming - BUT he won't put down his steak.
And a medium sized dog is worse on the environment than an SUV? REALLY?
Cattle are not the only animal that burps and farts - so do pigs, horses, dogs and cats. And not to mention asses.
One should work hard not to be one and work hard to put things in balance.
One should never forget that God is the maker and creator of this world and there is nothing NOTHING he would ever allow a stupid little human to do to destroy his creation.
No, I don't believe the earth is warming. I do believe that there are a lot of people getting very RICH of the whole idea and in fact the earth is in deed cooling.
I remember in 1975 when I was in the 7th grade - they had us all scared to death of another impending ice age. They had us all scared to death of over population and that by the year 2000 we would be stacked up like firewood. There would be no more open land for any of the wild or domesticated animals to live on.
Until you see it with your own eyes stop freaking out. Why don't you go to Tibet and take a few first hand pictures and then we'll all sit down and freak out together. But until then I am not going to join in on the extermination of all the cattle on the planet. Because the next thing it will be my dog - then it will be my horses and then - well it could possibly be me or you.
Just keep giving them the power brothers and sisters and we'll all be lemmings.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
Haven't you heard? The Americans have decided global warming is a hoax and the Earth is actually cooling. If the American public has something to say about science, surely it must be true!

If all the ice on the planet disappeared over night, global warming would still be viewed as a leftist conspiracy in the only country that can lead the rest of the developed world by example.

Take a good look at those glaciers, or what's left of them, we're the last generation to lay eyes on them.

Sigh

Well gee, that's strange. I would have thought the Earth would actually be "cooling" since temperatures have actually been going "down" since 1998.

Or does "going down" mean "going up" now?

Originally posted by loam

I should have recognized the non-responsive, specious posts.

That's what you, and some others liked/like to claim.

Originally posted by loam

That is your example of how I "like to blame mankind and agree with the fearmongering that the IPCC and others partake in."

I sooooo should have known it was you.

Well, i can see that you continue to evade the questions.

In that link i gave you obviously think that CO2 is to blame for the warming, did you not?...

Isn't that a claim of the IPCC policy makers?

There have been dozens of threads which show that many of the scientists of the IPCC disagree with the claims made by the IPCC policy makers.

Anyway, the question is again, what do you propose?

Is that question that difficult to respond?

[edit on 9-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by wx4caster
sigh...

if the snow is melting and lakes are drying up, where the hell is the water supposed to be going?

do you even comprehend the volume of water that has supposedly disappeared?? there is such a thing as the law of conservation. that water has to go some where. it cannot just vanish. and it is very highly unlikeley that it has been taken to the sea in rain clouds considering the effects of orographic lifting and the mechanisms involved with moisture interaction with terrain.

we would be hearing of massive flooding along major rivers if there was really that much water being transferred.

All the fresh water on the planet is around 1% of total water.
They are talking about the shrinking of the Glaciers -- not that they are gone.

But if ALL this water went into the ocean, it would take about 56 years to raise the water level off the East Coast of the US -- according to some oceanographers I was reading who discussed how long it takes for the ocean levels to distribute. It was a surprisingly long time and it was counter intuitive for me.


However, the ocean levels are rising and we are getting more coastal flooding.

I don't think this is melting to be frozen somewhere else. It's clear that Global Warming is taking place and if anything, the changes are more rapid than once thought.

>> We are in the coolest 10 year period of the hottest in human record. The carbon dioxide level is 380 PPM and 350 is considered "stable" -- and we haven't had this level since the carboniferous era when oceans were 70-120 feet higher and the temperate 5-10 degrees hotter.

>> As to other points I've read about the "solar system is undergoing warming" -- no it isn't. Mars had some melting at the poles -- but that is due to it's elliptical ORBIT, and occasionally, it is closer to the sun. The sun is actually a bit cooler than average (about 2 degrees) due to lower sunspot activity. It is pretty stable overall as to heat output.

Hoax? How can anyone call it a hoax?

The glaciers are receding. Sea ice is disappearing at a record pace, as is the ice sheet in Greenland. In the south pole, we have massive ice shelves threatening to break off. We have this thread's issue. We have another retreating glacier that is covering the largest peat bogs in the world. Ones that once they thaw, will spew record amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere.

Do you mean the theory behind global warming and climate change is a hoax? If you claim this, then you must also be able to prove why it is. That is, what exactly is causing the warming. Aside from a nebulous "Oh, the earth has done this before" response, can you give solid proof? If not, it's not a hoax, it's a theory.

And a good theory at that. We are doing something that we KNOW can create this effect. Ergo, it makes sense to at least theorize that we are in fact, responsible for the changes. To not do so is irresponsible.

To simply ignore it... to say "Oh.. it's probably an agenda for special interest groups," and then to shrug it off and see what happens, imo, is monumentally irresponsible and short-sighted. This stuff isn't fiction, it's happening, now. To ignore it because it doesn't mesh with your political beliefs is ignorant.

Every year I keep hearing "Oh.. it's just an ebb and flow thing.. it will turn around again.. in fact, we've got colder temperatures here and here!" And then I keep seeing MASSIVE indicators it's still going quickly downhill. Huge events that people continue to slough off one after another. It's kind of sad, really. This may be the one thing that bites humanity in the rear... not war, or anything else.

Originally posted by TSZodiac
reply to post by loam

 

Manmade Global Warming does not exist - that's why (in the US anyway) the Politicians/business people who support have stopped using that term. They now say "Global Climate Change" because the SCIENCE doesn't support their original model.

No it is because people didn't understand the effects and assumed the entire planet was going to feel like the beach. This helps understand that the weather will get wacked out from warming, causing more snow in some, less rain in others, and cause chaos. Warming was too definititive.

Nearly everything we were origianally told about "Global Warming" (more powerful hurricanes more often, large scale droughts in the US, etc.) have not come to pass

You are talking without looking at any information whatsoever. I certainly hope your not referring to the past year. Scientists knew that this year was going to be cool and quiet. El nino is asleep. It is due to wake up at any time now,and it will start getting hotter and more chaotic then ever. This is the calm before the storm.

- in fact, in most cases the OPPOSITE has been true (Fewer hurricanes and less powerful ones, floods instead of droughts, etc.).

Are you determining this by looking at your local weather map?

worst drought in decades in somalia

china reels from worst drought

North America drought worst in 500 years

California facing worst drought in history

Utah faces worst drought since Depression

Austin: 2009 shatters record heat

And I can keep going on with just information from the last decade.

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
Haven't you heard? The Americans have decided global warming is a hoax and the Earth is actually cooling. If the American public has something to say about science, surely it must be true!

If all the ice on the planet disappeared over night, global warming would still be viewed as a leftist conspiracy in the only country that can lead the rest of the developed world by example.

Take a good look at those glaciers, or what's left of them, we're the last generation to lay eyes on them.

Sigh

Well gee, that's strange. I would have thought the Earth would actually be "cooling" since temperatures have actually been going "down" since 1998.

Or does "going down" mean "going up" now?

Temperatures haven't been statistically going down since 1998. 1998 and 2004 were the warmest temperatures recorded, and since 2000 we have recorded most of the hottest temperatures on record. Just because temperatures aren't as drastic as 98 doesn't mean they aren't still going up.

Earth's temperature won't always go up year-on-year. However, on average it does trend upwards.

Doing some cursory research on global temperatures will show you how erratic temperatures can be, but they do still trend up.

Source

As to the topic, the rapidly retreating glaciers are probably due to a myriad of causes.

- The incredibly poor environmental policies of India and China
- The rise in Earth's temperature (regardless of the cause)
- The rise in the Tibetan plateau

All of these combined factors spell disaster for the region. 20% of the population rapidly losing their water supply is going to be trouble for everyone.

Sending nearly 2 billion people (let's not forget that the Ganges water source is in rapid retreat as well, so India is in just as much a situation as China) into a panic about water is going to spiral the world in to war.

I can bet almost hands down that the next world war that we experience will be one over water. With Asia, Africa, and Australia undergoing rapid desertification, those countries will be looking towards the Western hemisphere to meet their needs.

I think the big beverage companies know this, which is why they've been privatizing water resources over the past decade in North and South America. The corporations will control the water, and therefore control the world.

Originally posted by fleabit
..........
Do you mean the theory behind global warming and climate change is a hoax? If you claim this, then you must also be able to prove why it is. That is, what exactly is causing the warming. Aside from a nebulous "Oh, the earth has done this before" response, can you give solid proof? If not, it's not a hoax, it's a theory.
..................

There is a big difference between the hoax that mankind is/was the cause for Gobal Warming, and the FACT that Climate Change happens naturally ALL the time...

I keep seeing the fans of the AGW claim try to merge both FACT and HOAX, as if both were the same, when they are not.

BTW, here is another of the several dozen peer-reviewed research papers that shows we are neither on the warmest, or the fastest Climate Change.

WHEN THE CANADIAN ARCTIC WAS 5°C WARMER THAN TODAY


Quaternary Research. Volume 65, Issue 3 , May 2006, Pages 431-442

HYPERLINK /fu3ou /fu3ou


A multi-proxy lacustrine record of Holocene climate change on northeastern Baffin Island, Arctic Canada


Jason P. Briner a), Neal Michelutti b), Donna R. Francis c), Gifford H. Miller d), Yarrow Axford d), Matthew J. Wooller e) and Alexander P. Wolfe b)



a) Geology Department, University at Buffalo, Buffalo, NY 14260, USA

b) Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, University of Alberta, Edmonton, AB T6G 2E3, USA

c) Department of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003, USA

d) Department of Geological Sciences and the Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research, University of Colorado, Boulder, CO 80303, USA

e) Alaska Stable Isotope Facility, Water and Environmental Research Center and School of Fisheries and Ocean Sciences, University of Alaska, Fairbanks, AL 99775-5860, USA


Abstract


Reconstructions of past environmental changes are critical for understanding the natural variability of Earth's climate system and for providing a context for present and future global change. Radiocarbon-dated lake sediments from Lake CF3, northeastern Baffin Island, Arctic Canada, are used to reconstruct past environmental conditions over the last 11,200 years. Numerous proxies, including chironomid-inferred July air temperatures, diatom-inferred lakewater pH, and sediment organic matter, reveal a pronounced Holocene thermal maximum as much as 5°C warmer than historic summer temperatures from 10,000 to 8500 cal yr B.P. Following rapid cooling 8500 cal yr B.P., Lake CF3 proxies indicate cooling through the late Holocene. At many sites in northeastern Canada, the Holocene thermal maximum occurred later than at Lake CF3; this late onset of Holocene warmth is generally attributed to the impacts of the decaying Laurentide Ice Sheet on early Holocene temperatures in northeastern Canada. However, the lacustrine proxies in Lake CF3 apparently responded to insolation-driven warmth, despite the proximity of Lake CF3 to the Laurentide Ice Sheet and its meltwater. The magnitude and timing of the Holocene thermal maximum at Lake CF3 indicate that temperatures and environmental conditions at this site are highly sensitive to changes in radiative forcing.

ff.org...

When these sort of Climate Changes occur, people in the region suffer, and many have died in the past.

All we can do about this is adaptation.

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
reply to post by Pathos

 

I understand what is happening Pathos, I'm just not going to get on the 'doom and gloom' or 'let's beat up and hate the humans' band wagon.

We may no be able to stop a 'supernova' like you say but in the meantime we can sure do our best to work around the problems in the RIGHT way.

First, I don't know who is making money off of this issue, so I cannot speak for those who are trying to benefit from environmental issues.

Second, I don't buy into the doom and gloom theology myself; however, I do understand the logic behind the impact of natural environmental changes.

Finally, there is no way around this issue. If the Earth is going to change geographically, there is nothing you can do about the event. Sorry.

I'm actually embracing the new changes. Even though several civilizations will perish from the events that are taking place, the Earth will still remain when the dust settles. Life will still endure.