.... and so the old gods stir, page 6
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reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 08:06 AM by Helmkat
Originally posted by stanlee
reply to post by Helmkat


well one thing the old texts we understand to this day is this. the old gods clearly didnt come here with the intent of militarisation. They taught the arts and sciences. you dont educate the peolpe you want to enslave. The rest is again coming when the work is done. YOu post great questions, and that to me is a great tool. Keeps the research going further.


Lets not confuse education with benevolance. They may have taught us a few things but their motives do not always align with what Humans call as altruism. Also would not an "enlightened" slave serve a intelligent master better then an ignorant one? IMHO any beings that show up with the notion of "fixing" us or resolving our problems for us (especially in a very overt way) -do not- have our best interests at heart. Our egos and mindset are to easily altered at this point in our history for them not to cause possibly drastic damage to us as a people.


[edit on 10-11-2009 by Helmkat]


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 11:43 AM by The Soothsayer
Methinks I'm going to have to send you a U2U... I've created threads on here left and right about things I know to be true concerning the old gods, and more specifically Guardians and gates, with little to no response.

From what am I?
[quote am trying to find something out, if anyone has similiar views, or knows of what I am talking about; I'll be brief, though, as describing this in the past has been rather lengthy:
This system borders between Sumerian and Norse, with my own beliefs.
I believe that God and Lucifer are lovers. The world was created NOT by the two of them, but rather more ancient "gods", with the world being withina nexus of dimensions. People were created to be used as pawns and slaves; the more worship, the stronger the diety became. God and Lucifer turned against these gods, wishing to save/ protect the earth.
Something shifted in the cosmos; God and Lucifer were able to turn the others away. God took to the heavens to watch for the others return, while Lucifer took the physical plane; Lucifer being the masculine and more "aggressive" of the two, this enabled for a more physical, ground-based battle should the others return.
Knowing they are weak against the others, the two created "guardians" to watch over the gates, or rather, the entrances to the different dimensional crossings. These gaurdians contain the powers of both God and Lucifer.

There's a few other threads floating around that I've done that touches on this in more detail... but I have to find them, dig deep...



reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 12:05 PM by Mr No One
Originally posted by stanlee
I havent really had the opportunity to study in depth the greco-roman pantheon as of yet. and in all honesty, I hadnt intended to play with them at all.. somehow they found their ways in here though.
\

How can you not have intended on "playing" with the grecco-roman gods? If, as you state in your original dissertation, this is an attempt to tie all these pieces together in some way how can you choose to ignore the mythology of a civilization that has had such an impact on the world we live in? That makes no sense.

I was not trying to critic your knowledge base, just pointing out a fundamental error. If you want to start with the "all-father/mother" in each religion and effectively tie them all together then go all the way to the root in each. You are on the right path. There is an fundamental similarity in all of them but your thesis will not stand up if it is based on incorrect data. Here is a website that may help.

And you are correct that Athena sprung from Zeus' skull. Fully grown and fully armored. But that was a unique situation for this child of his.

Also, you are missing something by leaving out the monotheistic religions. As they cemented their power base over the polytheistic groups, they used the similarities that helped them to comfort the people and ease the transition. That is why so many holy days (holidays) actually have a pagan root. This could help you in finding the connections that you seek.


[edit on 10-11-2009 by Mr No One]


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 12:56 PM by bpg131313
Originally posted by serbsta
As to the general idea you are proposing in this thread; people have always seen and associated 'bad times', or bad periods of time in human history with the actual 'end times' prophesied by their religions. Many in the past would look at new discoveries in science as signs that the end is approaching. If you actually consider the LEGIT UFO sightings, not those which can be debunked, but those that have had all alternative theories extinguished, you would find you are only left with a few. And with those few, no one really know's if they're legit or not. In a way, what I'm trying to say, UFO sightings are one of OUR 'end times' signs (not speaking for myself), whether they be legit or not.
[edit on 9/11/2009 by serbsta]


Perhaps we have a subconscious desire to have a supreme (and therefore unstoppable) force arrive that will fix all of the problems we as a species have managed to get ourselves into, and to teach us all a way to live better lives. I personally wish we've have a return of aliens. I can not rationally accept the histories as offered by the scholars that write them. Perhaps a returning alien race (which sounds cruel to label them as such) would illuminate much of the history that we as a species have lost, or have had intentionally withheld from us.

If these beings are out there and are looking to return, there's probably a time they told us that they'd be back, that has been held back from us by those that chose to believe in something else. I'm not jumping on the December 21st, 2012 date, but I'd hope the date would arrive soon. I admit to being impatient. I don't want to wait forever looking up at the sky in hope of having these people show up, any more so that I want to wait for Wall Street to discover that we're actually all broke and allow the stock market to crash just like it did on our Grandparents.

If aliens aren't out there and they aren't coming to give us the spanking we all deserve for the way we've behaved as a species, then we're really out of luck because there'll never be those people who come in and save the day when we never seem to manage more than making it through the day.

Here's to hoping that aliens do show up. Here's to hoping that they are glass-half-full kind of people. Here's to hoping that they'll be real - because if they aren't I have a hard time believing that we as a species can pull ourselves out of the pit we've dug for ourselves.


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 01:48 PM by cosmicpixie
reply to post by Unity_99


It takes two to tango - yes, the PTB have manipulated the world and all the systems in place down here but it is freedom of choice to stay asleep and be led or to awaken and step aside. There are extreme cases where the odds are stacked against people - eg countries where exceptionally fascist laws are in place, and that is sad but those people will have had a hand in helping that control system get in place to begin with you know, by their lack of rebellion/revolt for example that could have stopped said fascist regimes in the first place. Imagine if the Germans had got some fire in their bellies when Hitler came on the scene....some did , but the vast majority just sat back and let him get on with it which is the only real reason he got as far as he did .

By a similar token, there is alot of talk about wars being deliberately started and yes that happens of course but those wars would never get off the ground if the elite were unable to rely on their tens of thousands of little soldiers who willingly sign up for training knowing full well they could one day be on the front line shooting little kids and pregnant women. You read stories about dead American soldiers and the world goes "poor hero soldier, evil Iraqis ". I think it more realistic to say "stupid drone who made a choice to risk his own life and participate in attacks on innocent civilians. He made his own bed so now he lies in it, dead. Boo hoo".

But then someone will say, what about those people who are FORCED to become soldiers and kill people ? As if they refused to join the army they would be sent to prison or killed ? Well, not much of a choice really, granted, but a choice nevertheless. Those individuals on the whole would choose their own, singular life and go ahead and fight even if it means standing their unleashing a hail of bullets on a crowd of innocent villagers a hundred strong and murdering them all. I myself would rather die than have all that blood and pain on my hands but the majority would put their own interests first instead of the world's.

My point is we ALL have choices. Sometimes those choices suck or are extremely limited but there is always a choice unless something awful is done to you, and you are a victim of a rape for example.

The world is not in the state is is simply because of the actions of a powerful elite who at the very top of the pyramid are likely not human in origin. The world is in the state it is in because of human complicity with those manipulations !

The ancient records mostly all describe the gods of old being anything BUT a peaceful bunch and I for one do not think they are a species to revere, trust or applaude in any way. But if they created us, as is written, they damn well will know what is best for us as their is no-one who understands their design better than the designer. They may well be trying to FIX what went wrong. Most humans may be better off controlled like dogs putting it bluntly - but first they would need a little genetic maintenance to get them on the straight and narrow a bit more.

For those humans who consider themselves "awake" there is a choice we will all have to NOT be part of any new world they attempt to create. No-one can force us to do this , that or the other and the wise will realize that death is preferable to bending to their plans if those plans are not something we wish to be part of. IE if the ETs landed and a few years later there was a bio chip implant to monitor thoughts - take it or be exiled/killed well there is at least a CHOICE ! The awake know there IS no death and that the Earth is not a place to covet returning to incarnation after incarnation in some mindless, pointless, repetetive cycle in which prior to each new life our memories are wiped clean and nothing can be gained from past experiences as we cannot recall a damn thing. Anyone who remains down here does so because they have CHOSEN to on one level or another so I just cannot feel sorry for them or sorry for what their masters might have planned for them, but whatever it is I am sure the world will be a better, peaceful place for it even if the resulting harmony and integration is made possible only via mind control and some sort of "Minority report" system of policing. Let's face it, the majority of human beings gravitate towards being led rather than leading. They don' t complain much so long as they have food, shelter, entertainment and so forth. They are content to remain asleep, ignorant, etc...

The vast majority of people in this world have unlimited access to information that could help them "wake up" and reclaim more of their own power and self responsibility but they are just not interested in going down that route.

Things are so far gone now that I think it nothing less than romantic dreaming to imagine that the plans thousands of years in the making can be stopped right at the last hour !

The problem is, most people think only in terms of THIS life, THIS world. We get all angry about what's happening down here, angry at the people helping it along, angry with the ETs who seem to be steering events a certain way. Anger won't stop any of it and nor will idealism - only a totally awakened world would have a chance to stop any of it now I think and there we have a bit of a problem given about 4 billion people have bought into the God/Religion thing ? You can call me a pessemist if you like but I prefer to consider myself "pragmatic" but hey maybe you are right and I AM a pessimist

I'm becoming more philosophical I think- I don't for one minute believe death is the end of my personal adventures, I don't for one minute intend to ever come back down to this ZOO and whatever happens down here at the hands of the ETs and PTB is in part made possible ONLY by direct compliance of the masses who inhabit this world . The world they get will be the world THEY helped to create !!!

I've stopped feeling so angry and instead feel more of a fascination and curiosity about what might be going down. I know my death is not the end, I'd just like to be around to see how things unfold when the ET presence becomes a much more hands on part of the human experience - as they WILL reveal themselves , I've no doubt about that.

I just think of the positives now in respect of the kind of world they may create . There would be some huge changes obviously but there could be so much to be gained in the long term if the human species was made to "tow the line" and straightened out / enhanced via genetic engineering. A closely monitored populace would not necessarily be like some sinister big brother scenario ....eg if people were having certain thoughts over a certain time period and some mainframe grid picked up on this and people were sent out to talk to the individual, the said individual could be counselled or "tweaked" in some way to help them stop having thoughts of sticking their Di^&*ck up 5 year old little Jimmy or murdering their partner. Another idea is perhaps such thoughts , when remotely read on some sort of "thought reading mainframe" that monitors all citizens, would result in some sort of mild pain being sent to the brain of the person with the bad thoughts - "operative conditioning" if you like. I don't see this kind of thing as "evil big brother", I view it as a PRACTICAL solution to a huge problem that needs sorting and that the only realistic way of weeding out the evil in human beings is through more control , or rather a more direct approach to re-balancing imbalanced emotions and thoughts. It would be nice to think humans could do that for themselves - alot of us CAN control emotions .thoughts, especially those who meditate or suchlike but EVERYONE needs to be balanced in order for the whole world to function harmoniously, not just some minority.

I'm going way off topic here though so had better dash before I write a whole essay .




[edit on 10/11/09 by cosmicpixie]


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 02:53 PM by 0bserver1
reply to post by stanlee


What a great story.. Amazing how you pulled this together.

I'm going to read this a couple more. to fully understand. But as far as I know you think the old figures (gods ) in the myths giving off signs that they are coming back. ?


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 04:45 PM by serbsta
Originally posted by 0bserver1
reply to post by stanlee


What a great story.. Amazing how you pulled this together.

I'm going to read this a couple more. to fully understand. But as far as I know you think the old figures (gods ) in the myths giving off signs that they are coming back. ?


Of course they gave off signs that 'they are coming back'. Every religion/faith requires something which will give it's followers hope and something to look forward to. For this, it requires blind faith to function. It's the same then as it is now.

The OP has some fundamental errors which he is not addressing, and yes i understand its a draft. These ancient societies did not just create 'law and ethics and philosophy out of nothing', that's a fundamental error which is adding a lot of weight to your debate unfairly. Further, the exclusion of other religions and monotheistic faiths which have greatly impacted upon the ones the OP is discussing; in turn a discussion on these monotheistic faiths would detract from the OP's polytheistic concentration and his debate in general. I'm not saying the OP is completely bunk, believe me. Although i don't believe in Ancient Astronaut Theory i absolutely love entertaining the idea and I'm still not bored of doing so.

[edit on 10/11/2009 by serbsta]



reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 05:24 PM by stanlee
reply to post by The Soothsayer


well, my goal is to find a possible connection between the cultures and gods of old. WHy are there pyramids in south america? why are the burial mounds conically shaped forming a pseudo pyramid? etc etc. right now I am heavily on research of the sumerians. the answer would be, you're not far off according to them.. God and Lucifer are brothers... but god is Enlil and Lucifer is Enki. When god cast satan into hell.. or better yet, when Enlil succeeded over his brother for failing in his given mission from his father Anu ENki was incharge of what seem to be mining operations or something like that, and Enlil was given supreme control over the entire "operation". it was originally Enki that held that position as he was the first born son of Anu.


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 05:33 PM by stanlee
reply to post by Mr No One


actually Im not leaving out the monotheistic religions. Technically these are ALL monotheistic in that they are taking orders from a superior being who plays (thus far) a very little role outside of commanding the lesser beings.. (what we are referring to as gods).
THen.. The very essence of what tied all this together for me all those years ago were three names. Anu, Nu, and Danu. I didnt know anything about the greco-roman beliefs at that time. you also missed where it said originally I hadnt intended to bring them it at all. but after literally skimming over some minor ancient religions from those areas while reading up on the scandinavians, and the Tuatha de Dannan, I find that the whole kit and caboodle is relative to the entire globe. and as I also said in a correction note I will ALSO be bringing in Africa as well. This whole thing is still in the works and the more critique and criticism I get, the better. Lets me know Im on the right or left. You guys have asked many questions I myself forgot to ask, which is solely why I posted this on ATS before going any further.

but all in all, yes you are correct, they are a part of the old gods system, and the fact that they kept creeping into all the original versions of this made me think that they too are a part of this entire "family" tree. (hence their place in the original family tree you read before) why didnt I consider them before? well before I knew what I was doing,, and keep in mind, Im just a chemist... not a doctor of anthropology, or theology, I was going by the names alone. that was all. Now more researched, and all that, I am including everyone, and have a few native american friends pointing me in the direction of literature on the native American religions or Indians as they are commonly called.


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 05:39 PM by stanlee
reply to post by cosmicpixie


which brings in the question "Why do I believe the old gods are stirring/returning. Well SO FAR they appear in times of great oppression, defeat the over seers of the time, and give knowledge, peace, and harsh law. We are in times of great oppression, and with all the strange things we see in the skies globally (IMO) they may be "casing the joint. see?"



reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 05:42 PM by stanlee
Originally posted by 0bserver1
reply to post by stanlee


What a great story.. Amazing how you pulled this together.

I'm going to read this a couple more. to fully understand. But as far as I know you think the old figures (gods ) in the myths giving off signs that they are coming back. ?
in short yes. Do note, this is not yet accurate. this is just the collection of ideas based off of what little I know. The user named Serbsta has a greater understanding in Sumerian culture than I and has pointed out many of my flaws in the area. I posted this to get input on whether or not this was even worth pursuing. it is to my understanding that, yes. it clearly is. lol and I invite others to point out possible flaws as well. I am doing one civilisation at a time, and then putting it all together in a complete and correct format.


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 05:42 PM by serbsta
Originally posted by stanlee
reply to post by The Soothsayer


or better yet, when Enlil succeeded over his brother for failing in his given mission from his father Anu


There is some confusion about this, some say that Enki is the son of Enlil and not his actual brother.

From: Enki's journey to Nibiru:

104-116 In the shrine of Nibru, Enki provided a meal for Enlil, his father. He seated An at the head of the table and seated Enlil next to An. He seated Nintud in the place of honour and seated the Anuna gods at the adjacent places (?). All of them were drinking and enjoying beer and liquor.


I can provide more examples from other texts if you want.

[edit on 10/11/2009 by serbsta]


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 05:48 PM by stanlee
reply to post by serbsta


LMFAO. you are correct in that failure to face that law creation aspect. I did not address it because at the time I was reading up on it (Esp Sumerian) and you are correct. it took Ninti, Enki, and Enlil some 7000 years (allegedly) to create The Me, and it took Inana a night to get Enki drunk in order to get it to the people. (oh.. the Me is "The Law of Heaven and Earth to which the people and the gods must abide." Kramer.....)
I like to have something to come back with if its for or against me. The research into teh Sumerian alone could very well change the entire out come of the project, not disproving my original thought mind you... but backing it up in a different way entirely. also I will be visiting that site you suggested tonite and tomorrow..

dick

LMFAO.

seriously serbster.. thanks for correcting that


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 05:50 PM by stanlee
reply to post by serbsta


Oh please do. I am going off the rivalry between the two. they piss and moan like brothers, and all I really came across was that Enki was the first born son of Anu. I will look further into this as well. Do note also that a superior was also called "sire", or also known as "father". To sire a family etc. lol.
who knows for sure though. I mean if you go off what Stytchen was saying.. hell Enlil was the commander after his brother was demoted for taking too long in gold mining operations

[edit on 10-11-2009 by stanlee]


reply posted on 10-11-2009 @ 06:00 PM by serbsta
reply to post by stanlee


Let's not steer into Sitchin too much. Since you are currently researching the Sumerians, you might want to check out this thread when you have time.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's long as well, lot's of insight from educated members.

I'll just copy out one of my posts from there, since i can't be bothered retyping:

EXTERNAL POST

Here's just some things i want to point out:

From Enki's journey to Nibru;

When Enki rises, the fishes rise before him like waves. He has the abzu stand as a marvel, as he brings joy into the engur.



So Enki raises the Abzu, the water. This is what we were discussing earlier, no?

In the shrine of Nibru, Enki provided a meal for Enlil, his father.


Then, further down, Enlil is speaking and he refers to Enki as both his son and father:

My son, king Enki, has built up the temple!



the shrine of the abzu, the good destiny of Enki, befitting the elaborate divine powers; the temple of Eridug, built with silver: for all this, father Enki be praised!


END EXTERNAL POST
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