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Ask what you would like about the bible and christianity

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posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
 


i didnt say it was good..i said God said slavery was an acceptable alternative to paying off a debt and that is a choice so as not to be indebted..and yes if you buy a slave from someone, since they are their property its the same..they are still let go on the 7th year...and it never says they have to be slaves for 6 years..thats just the max...

also..its human arrogance to say we know better than god..the law he laid out..if you really look at it..was quite good and worked very well..like the law for land..you can work the ground for 6 years but on the 7th let it rest..science proves that is better..something to do with letting it build up nutrients again and stuff i think

here is one explanation of the event you mentioned..it makes some good points bible.org...

also..all he did was say a curse on them..he left it up to god..he didnt do anything to them himself..read that page..

the problem with what you and many others try to do..is you try to find one verse and nit pick it..you need to grasp the entire story..the bible works as a WHOLE..as that page mentions..who is to say they were not under satanic influence..also if you look at the page, what they were saying was a lot worse than it sounds...



[edit on 8-11-2009 by resonance]




posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by resonance
 


reply to post by resonance
 


that link makes NO good points.

he said a curse and left it up to god...
people pray because they think invoking god had power
this guy said a curse to invoke gods power
it was left up to god how to punish them
decided to have them ripped apart by bears.
therefore that decision was moral?

how does that make any sense to you?

they were under satanic influence? so god thought it was just to have people who had no control over themselves ripped apart by angry bears?

you seem to be missing critical thinking skills. yes we nit pick, because every word is supposed to be inspired by god, as in "this is what god wants"

god wants people ripped apart by bears.
beating your slaves until they almost die is perfectly ok
throw stones at homosexuals until they die.

the problem with people like YOU is that YOU nit pick. you pick all the happy feel good stuff and say this is the best book ever written while ignoring all of the genocide, the 2 million + people killed by god, the hatred and ignorance, and everything else bad that is directly supported and often commanded by the one you feel is all knowing.

go ahead and say whatever you want to make yourself sleep at night. it doesnt make your god a good being.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by resonanceromans 9..this chapter's purpose is to show that the will of God is absolute and that his promises to israel will stand and be fulfilled..the reference to jacob and esau is used to show this..www.unionchurch.com... page explains it very well..as does this one www.desiringgod.org... it shows how someone had his whole world view changed..

And what of the reference to Pharaoh who hated God? And what of the scripture detailing the purpose of life being that God makes known Their wrath and strength and riches mercy? And does "He will have mercy on whom He wills and hardens whom He wills" refer to Israel? Too often there is a misunderstanding of what is spiritually consumed versus logically built.


Originally posted by resonance
now christmas..it is completely unbiblical..jesus christ was not born on christmas..the celebration of christmas on the 25th was chosen by the catholic church to help convert pagans..this is in no way a folly of God but of man and does not hurt the bible or christianity at all..i am not claiming it was right what they did, it was just a political move...and yes i disagree with much of what is taught in mainstream christianity today..especially in the catholic church

Thanks.


Originally posted by resonance
in john 10:34 jesus is quoting psalm 82 where the judges are referred to as "gods"..this page.. www.ronrhodes.org... it all very simply..

The exegesis you linked does not refer to my question with regards to the scriptures I asked you to consider. In doing so, it is incomplete/unbiblical. More so, it is poorly reasoned regarding the logic used in establishing the process of being glorified as incorrect by misdirecting to an alternate idea of pantheism and polytheism. Christ claimed to be the Son of God and the Jews correctly understood that a "son" grows up to be like their "father." So in indicating that He is God, the Jews claimed blasphemy against Christ. He replies by calling them a name of God to show them that they are to be understanding God's gifts and do not. The concept of judging is a godly and spiritual idea and is not contrary to "godliness" as the link tries to justify. We truly are the brethren of Christ.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
 


I answered you well. Please reply to what I pointed to.

We live in a time that denies slavery and is most guilty of it's filthiness. Your arguments are weaker than the view you are attacking because of this, but both arguments you are dealing with are lacking balance and honesty.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
 


firstly..i dont claim to agree with what happened..that page did make good points if you read it..whether or not you want to accept that is up to you..


"the problem with people like YOU is that YOU nit pick. you pick all the happy feel good stuff and say this is the best book ever written while ignoring all of the genocide, the 2 million + people killed by god, the hatred and ignorance, and everything else bad that is directly supported and often commanded by the one you feel is all knowing."

the genocide..what i believe is supported by scripture...is that much of that was the extinguishing of a bloodline that was perverted by satan to stop the birth of christ..the fallen angels bred with humans..it says that in genesis 6 and gave rise to offspring that were a mixbreed..this is why god chose noah..noah was drunkard..but pure in his generations..and the nephilim which means giants which were the mixbreed were around after the flood as well..goliath for example was a descendant of them..also giants are talked about many times in the OT..

the story of the bible is a story of redemption..there is a spiritual battle going on..and a lot of what happens in the bible is the result of satan trying to thwart god's plan

also..god dealt harshly with people in certain places..but he is a just god..and therefore did things he had to do even if he didnt necessarily want to, humanity forced his hand..



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by Dasher
 


in all honesty i was confused by your question about john 10:34 and since i havent dealt with it before i wasnt exactly sure what you wanted..

i agree with what you have said though...but i was unclear on what to answer and how haha..i tried..but as i said id like to hear your questions about angels and demons and stuff..because i know more about other areas than i do about the things you asked..

and if i dont know ill admit it..or if its just a guess ill tell you..like i said..i wasnt sure about those questions you posed before so i tried to give you something i thought you were looking for

[edit on 8-11-2009 by resonance]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by resonance
 


For the moment, I will say my thoughts;
So far, I am pondering the idea that Angels are the spiritual "related image" of us. As we are to Christ, the Angels are to the Spirit. One of the main points I would refer to would be that 1/3 of the Angels fell and 2/3 of the earth will be reserved to the fire. 1/3 of the earth will be reserved for God and 2/3 of the Angels did not fall. As God entered the Void that He created, there was a falling away, and as the Temporal is completed there is a returning of life to the Eternal. Kind of a transferring of life of sorts. But I am unsure and I am open to thoughts that are rational, based on scriptures (not just the bible, for all scriptures are flawed), and that do not work contrary to the Word (give to God with all of your heart, soul, mind, strength, give to your neighbor as yourself/God is OrderCharity - this would prohibit a whole host of different false truths; e.g. idolatry).


My edit was to alter the word "echo" to "related image" in order to prevent there from being incorrect implications from being made by my word.

[edit on 11/8/2009 by Dasher]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by Dasher
 


i honestly havent heard that view but it is interesting

i have some questions about it though..the bible says the angels were there when the earth was created (they cheered) so were we created as angels first..then born as humans according to that view?

"As God entered the Void that He created, there was a falling away, and as the Temporal is completed there is a returning of life to the Eternal. Kind of a transferring of life of sorts. "

can you elaborate..i dont quite understand what you mean right here



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by Dasher
Please expound on Romans 9 and explain to me why the majority of Christianity continues to believe in freedom (Independence - aka free will - aka Chaos) rather than what is clearly being taught here (freedom through Unity with God's (OrderCharity - Judges 6:24/1 John 4:8) will through faith which is from a gift and produces a secure hope for a future.)?

Please explain what Christmas is and justify to me why it is godly to celebrate it when it was not given to celebrate in the scripture, and is historically a Pagan holiday rehashed as a "Christian" holiday in order to bring the Empire of it's day into subjection. Why is this not proof that Christianity is the "whore" of "mystery babylon" which extends to this day as a tool of Pride and Chaos? How much like former Empires does our culture need to be for division to cease regarding prophecy?

What does it mean when Christ answered accusations of blasphemy (His claim of being the Son of God and therefore God) by telling his accusers that they are "elohim," which is also the name of God (John 10)? Please reference the prayer of Christ in John 17 in which Christ refers to future faithful as One. Please also reference this with John 8:12 and the correlating verse Matt 5:14.


I might have some more questions if you are able to answer wisely, but this is fine for now to enable me to know whether you are "apt to teach."



Sorry for the skepticism, there are few teachers around who can even deal with this "milk." My following questions will be far more hard to deal with, so I'd appreciate your honesty in whether or not you can answer "meatier" questions.



I am not a BIble expert but I will attempt this.

In regards to Romans 9, no where does Scripture state that man has "free will". Scripture only alludes to it.

In regards to Christmas. It's not to be worshipped but it can be celebrated by Christians just as other holidays. To have a Christmas celebration does not make one a non-christian. It matters not its history but rather where are the hearts of Believers.

In regards to "elohim" and men being called that. They were called that because they were "judges" with the power of capital punishment not because Jesus meant they were literally God.

In closing, if you're a Believer in Christ Jesus then are these questions designed to intimidate a fellow Believer, such as the op? If so why?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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also..certain angels had certain roles in the bible..they were messengers..watchers..guards..the angel of death...the angel of the lord..the angels are referred to as angelic hosts..i believe them to be completely different beings than humans



[edit on 8-11-2009 by resonance]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by resonance
Ask what you would like about the bible and christianity


Where did Cain get his wife?

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Neo__]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Neo__
 


well biblically..its pretty easy to just assume he married a sister or niece..they had to marry in their family to populate the earth and this was not forbidden until a much later time..it says adam and eve begot sons and daughters..he married a sister niece..there is no reason to assume otherwise

[edit on 8-11-2009 by resonance]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by resonance]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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Yea, I figured you were going to say that. It's the only answer there could be if you believe that Genesis is only account of our history.

Add incest to the long list of illegal and immoral acts in the bible. These words of God, as they are interpreted, are not really relevant to today's world are they?

Thanks for your answer.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Neo__]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
In regards to Romans 9, no where does Scripture state that man has "free will". Scripture only alludes to it.

Only if you ignore so many ideas and verses.

Rom 9:11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth


Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

The above scriptures clearly say something spiritual, and it is not about the nation Israel. It is about the seed of Abraham, which Hebrews 11 (and other chapters) declares is not DNA, but is faith (which is a gift).


Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
In regards to Christmas. It's not to be worshipped but it can be celebrated by Christians just as other holidays. To have a Christmas celebration does not make one a non-christian. It matters not its history but rather where are the hearts of Believers.

Jam 2:15-16
If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

Intention is of no effect without understanding (faith).
Counsel and Understanding. Faith and Charity. Christ and Comfort.

Based on your ideal, we might as well create new holidays every day that are based on attacking another person's religion and manipulating masses of people for the sake of power and pride, as long as we mean well. However, for myself, I will honor God on all days. If someone is still one who honors God on certain days as per the ancient scriptures, I can only encourage them to strengthen themselves and understand better that the power of those days of celebration is inside of them through the gift of God. Conversely, creating holidays based on corruption and darkness, I will speak out against.


Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
In closing, if you're a Believer in Christ Jesus then are these questions designed to intimidate a fellow Believer, such as the op? If so why?

As I said above, I can only encourage believers to strength and seek out wisdom from those who understand that which I do not. Believe me, I am being as gentle as is appropriate. I am very well capable of tearing apart just about anyone in argument. It is not beneficial, leads to a growth of ignorance, and I honestly only have the desire to manifest God in this world. I may fail, but I assure you, intimidation was not the point, declaring light is.

The Sons of God are obvious and they are few in this time. Sons of God... that's an interesting name...



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by Neo__
Yea, I figured you were going to say that. It's the only answer there could be if you believe that Genesis is only account of our history.

Add incest to the long list of illegal and immoral acts in the bible. These words of God, as they are interpreted, are not really relevant to today's world are they?

Thanks for your answer.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Neo__]


Please have some consideration for ancient and weaker cultures. While we find these things to be below us, they have been necessary at times in history, even apart from the scriptures. I would like to add, though, I tend to believe that Adam and Eve are more of a conceptual way to communicate how we were made, have progressed, and are supposed to interact with each other and our Creators.

Generally speaking, I would not be offended if we were made as one and then two from the beginning, or if we evolved from animals in some way. The important thing to consider is that we became spiritually aware, clothed ourselves and developed naming systems. These were the beginning stages of development from animals to judges (Adam). With faith, judges are transformed into good judges and further in time, good judges (Christ was the firstborn spiritually) are glorified into Unity with Judges. Understand that Judges is the name of God and Their goodness and perpetuity are implicated further in alternate names (YHWH, etc).

The scriptures which speak of the Word of God are very relevant, and while more often read than any time in history, are grossly misunderstood and misrepresented.

Please have grace on me. I am only trying to offer a bridge of connection through understanding. I am not trying to be adversarial.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by Neo__
 


it is a perfectly acceptable answer...if we all evolved...the first humans had to reproduce with other humans in their family...this is the problem with most atheists/agnostics etc. you just wont accept simple truths like the one i gave you..

also..like i said..in the bible it was NOT incest..it was perfectly acceptable..it was later outlawed..but it was necessary to populate the earth..

[edit on 9-11-2009 by resonance]



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by resonance
also..certain angels had certain roles in the bible..they were messengers..watchers..guards..the angel of death...the angel of the lord..the angels are referred to as angelic hosts..i believe them to be completely different beings than humans

[edit on 8-11-2009 by resonance]


I definitely understand them to be different than us, however, Christ is different than you and I and you are different than me, but Christ prayed that we would know that we are One in John 17. There is definitely a form of mysticism that the eastern churches pick up on that the western churches have forgotten.

Starting up from there, Christ is the Son of God, firstborn of many brethren. Therefore, if we are spiritually the brothers of Christ, we are also Sons of God. In Genesis, there is reference made to Sons of God taking earthly women of their choice to procreate. I am not sure these Sons of God are Angels, fallen or otherwise, but it is interesting to note the connection to our name.

On that same track, Angels are referred to as the Messengers of God. The Comforter is a being of the unseen and Christ a being of the seen. It is the fullness of these two "persons" that we understand made us in the beginning.

So then, we, in the likeness of God have a flesh from below that is met by Christ who is the flesh from above. We also have a breath of life from below that is met by Comfort who is the breath (spirit) from above.

Would it be strange to consider that Angels are similar to us in that they also are a likeness of the Creators, but are manifested in the unseen more than the seen as we are manifested in the seen more than the unseen? This is similar to the duality we see in Christ and Comfort, and the duality of our own selves which is body and spirit. I hope I am making sense.

Digressing to a question... wow, what a tough thing to put into words. It is difficult to even form my question since it generally lies in the idea that I am seeking understanding about things that are rarely spoken of in scripture with detail. I am fascinated by it and am hoping that someone has been given some understanding that is harmonious with scripture and God's Word in general and is willing to share it.

Your thoughts, my neighbor?



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by Dasher
 


well in gen 6 the hebrew is "b'nei elohim or bene elohim" this is always used of angels..when jesus says he is the son of god he literally means son as in god is his father..we are sons of man..the phrase son of man is used many times in the bible

the way i see the triune nature of god is like this...jesus is the fleshy representation..the holy spirit is the spiritual representation...and God is the full representation in wherever he exists (i believe god and angels to be hyper-dimensional..which i can expound on if you wish)..

also the bible says we get heavenly bodies when we go to heaven, i think at this point our spirit will be one with our heavenly body, whatever that looks like lol..i kind of thing of our earthly bodies as vessels and our consciousness and all that is connected to our spirit..kind of like a puppet i guess haha..



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by resonance
 


Why is there eternal hell?

Why is there not ample proof of whatever theology they subscribe to?

Why not me, and you and others? More on this later.



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


well from the beginning man has disobeyed God..he could have easily just wiped the slate clean and started over...but he loved us and wanted to give us a chance at redemption..that started with israel but they continued to disobey...the creator of the entire universe came to earth as a man to die for a sin he never committed just to save us..all the creator asks of his creation is that we accept that he died for our sins because we could not pay for them ourselves..

that is not much of a request if you ask me..considering humanity has hated and disobeyed him all throughout history..

we are warned about hell...warned what it is like..and told how to stay out of it..God is just..he must punish the wicked and sinful..it is no different than laws of earth..we know if we kill we could be put to death..we know if we commit other crimes what the punishments are..this is the same...and he is not asking very much of us at all

i did not understand your other question..please elaborate




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