Originally posted by c-modamus
but im open to a couple possibilities. it could be perfect plausible that these astral-beings could be...

In private I call them "spectral beings", not astral. Spectral would mean they are able to manifest on various planes and in various forms.

Originally posted by The Shrike
Not everything you said is as said. Especially the "hag" episode. I'm an experiencer.

Thanks for sharing that experience.

I am not saying that Hags and Grays are the same thing, Im saying that they show-up in similar states. The idea is that they are both astral.

The Fourth Kind, the new feature film, did make an interesting point - in relation to this thread. The allege footage, shows the abductee's being (if not) "taken over" before the abduction. Some of the real footage, would lead the viewer to be mistaken and thinking one is watching exorcism cases - not abduction.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by infinite]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Every Culture/Religion knows astral-beings and knows that they interact from another, non-physical (astral) plane with humans in either benevolent or malevolent ways. In Hinduism and Buddhism there are the Devas and Asuras in Christianity the Equivalent Angels and Demons, in Tribal Religions they are called good and bad Spirits. Actually there is hardly a Religion that does not mention them. In the middle-ages various beings are referred to as Fairies, Dwarves, Goblins, etc. What did they do? They played tricks on and abducted people. Or they visited them at night and performed experiments and forced sex. Here is an image from that time, depicting a "Hag" harrassing a woman at night

Could it also be that culturally, Individuals are updating these experiences with a contemporary explanation. As science and technology make "aliens" seem possible and less abstract then astral beings or religious equivalents.

It could also be that the above examples you list above in relation to religion were used historically to explain psychiatric conditions, experiences or incidents describes today as phenomena like sleep paralysis, psychosis etc.

The only problem with my theory is that Ive also seen UFOs in my lifetime. Flying silver discs. And Im pretty sure those were not astral but physical because I saw them in glaring, wide-awake daylight, not in that shadowy land of halfsleep. Unless the UFOs and the Grays are not related

I don't think this is a problem for you theory. It is very rare that UFO are sited in conjunction with Alien Abduction experiences. I have read many researchers express a need for the two topics to be treated apart, that is we should keep UFO and Alien Abduction separate because UFO siting are Unidentified and does not automatically equal aliens inside them are abducting people. I think your theory should stand alone as a valid alternative due to the lack of UFO activity around abductees

So what I am saying is that these are "aliens", but maybe not in the sense we understand the term "aliens"...

Thoughts?

I agree with you in part. I think what we are doing is describing experiences, that have long been part of our existence, with a New Culturally Updated explanation that is acceptable within a contemporary culture dominated by Science and Technology. A science and technology culture that tells us that Alien life is possible.

Cool Thread. S & F.

Originally posted by infinite
The allege footage, shows the abductee's being (if not) "taken over" before the abduction. Some of the real footage, would lead the viewer to be mistaken and thinking one is watching exorcism cases - not abduction.

"Taken over"? As in...their bodies twitching and or their demeanor changing? That would be interesting.

I`ll have to watch that.

Originally posted by atlasastro
Could it also be that culturally, Individuals are updating these experiences with a contemporary explanation. As science and technology make "aliens" seem possible and less abstract then astral beings or religious equivalents.

Jacques Vallee (among others) has suggested this. The OP is hinting at this. Yes. Quite possible.

It could also be that the above examples you list above in relation to religion were used historically to explain psychiatric conditions, experiences or incidents describes today as phenomena like sleep paralysis, psychosis etc.

Its all either astral/spectral or psychiatric/neurological, depending upon ones worldview. There is always debate between the two sides. Blessed are the psychiatrists who also consider spiritual explanations.

It is very rare that UFO are sited in conjunction with Alien Abduction experiences.

Not surprised. But I do wonder why I experienced both gray-abductions as a child AND disc-sightings later though, well-sensing that they are not directly linked. Maybe a preoccupation with UFO-books (after my abduction experiences I started reading up on it all) has something to do with the disc-sightings.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

Great thread, as usual Skyfloating. S & F.

While I agree you make an interesting point and you are correct that many (not all) reports of grey encounters/abductions seem to include aspects which link them with astral experiences, I think you need to consider a few more option. I tend to think some of your conclusions are a bit premature.

For instance, the idea you posted that abduction being an "astral phenomenon" (in some cases) would mean it was "not an extraterrestrial phenomenon" is flawed, I believe, because it assumes that there can be no relationship between "real" ETs and the "astral plane".

I can "astral project" and have done for many years. I am quite physically real. Yet if I knew you enough to feel I had a solid "lock" on you, and felt so inclined, even I could "abduct" you, or at least put you through a rather shocking experience, as could many experienced projectors. Robert Monroe, who has written several books about his astral experiments, recounts several OOBE episodes of his in which he directly and verifiably affected people (mentally and physically) while they were both awake and asleep. Therefore, there is no reason why an ET civilization which has learned to access and operate with mastery on this level, either through technology or development of their own system, could not also use "astral projection" to achieve certain goals.

"Astral projection" and the "Astral plane" only have 'spiritual' connotations because they are not yet acknowledged or understood by our science. But that doesn't mean they are not understood and employed by ET science.

So I don't think the idea that an "astral" event means it therefore has nothing to do with ETs is valid. The same goes for eliminating "Government experimentation", although I suspect this is less common.

Real physical beings can use the "astral" level, if they are experienced enough, to target and affect other real physical beings. Greys could be both real ETs and operate on the "astral" level, in many cases. As human understanding and experience of this level is relatively limited, we cannot judge why they might do this or what they might achieve from doing so.

I'm not saying that these astral events are carried out by ETs (or are always ETs) but I'm saying that this possibility cannot be ruled out, or even deemed unlikely, just because an event was apparently "astral" in nature.


[edit on 9-11-2009 by Malcram]

Originally posted by krystalice
These beings from other dimensions that commune in the physical realm our dimension one, are not E.T's as what we are potrayed to believe in my oppinion. They are entities of darkness. If one has studied the sacred ancient hermeneutic text, than you'd know what they are, they even have specific names, they will even shift or morph to whatever shape they like to suit their analogy.

I know what/who you are referring to. Many occasions when meditating, and projecting, I've encountered these dark entities. Sentinels, are the common expression for them - or off worlders.

However, those entities are not responsible for abductions.