British Secret Military Budget

As the title of this thread suggests, is there any info on British military "Black" budgets? All the info regarding this, always explains the US "Black" military budget, but never Britain. OBviously if it exists in this sense, it will be kept secret, well so you'd think!

Any help from anyone, or relevant information?

P.S..Yes i have google'd it, before you ask......

Kind regards,

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that there's a black budget for UK military spending. There was in the 1970's when the Labour government secretly decided to upgrade the Polaris missile warheads in order that they could better attack Moscow & it's ABM defences (Project Chevaline).

That project was funded in secret all through the Labour government, from 1974 to 1979. I think Margaret Thatcher disclosed that programme to Parliament in the early 1980's.

As to today ? No idea. I'm not meant to know ; it's a secret

Yeah cheers for that. Searching for info on this not easy as there does not seem to be any of it readily available.

reply to post by veritas 7

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It was once said by a KGB chap in a "spy book" I read some years back that the UK is more secretive than the USSR ever was. We have some quite draconian laws on the books which can stifle even the mearest hint of a suggestion that anything might be going on....

Having said that, we can barely afford the conventional military budget we have, so I doubt its huge. But then, the UK always manages to get the job done and then some on a fraction of the money our cousins across the pond do it for.

The "secret" stuff is handled by Qinetic (the commercial arm to make money of "secret science") and the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, which does the secret, funky stuff best kept for ourselves.

If you want to know "Britains black budget", thats the best place to start. For example, DSTL has an annual turnover of around £370 million pound.

reply to post by stumason

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Weren't Qinetic working on a technology to make main battletanks & other vehicles invisible only a few years ago ? Haven't heard much on that subject since. Bet that's cost a pretty penny ; I doubt speculative technology such as that comes out of the ordinary equipment budget.

Yeah am aware of that Qinteq, and their work cheers Stumason. Being that the Uk military budget is about £37 billion, i was wondering if the "Black" budget could mirror this. I mean the amount of money we have spent on "Bank bail outs". I'm sure we could siphon off some money...Wink Wink.

reply to post by Ulala

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About 12 years ago, I saw a report they were working on a plastic polymer harder than any of the armour they have now to put on a tank with a hydrogen powered engine with an EM cannon...

Haven't heard of that much either too...

Given all the known projects with people like BAe such as Taranis, the spending of Qinetic and DSTL and what have you, I reckon black budget spending is probably in the order or 1-2 Billion, but may be higher. It really depends on what you want to call "black budget". The Type 45 cost a couple of billion to develop, the F-35 has had a fair amount spent on it too.

It never ceases to amaze me that they can churn out new hi-tech weapons with new and interesting ways of killing, maiming, or disabling people, but they can't manage to develop desert resistant boots, have enough body armour for the troops, or manage to get helicopters out there to ferry the troops about safely.

I think the old days when those in power had served in the military in conflicts, or had sons and daughters on the front lines, then more effort was devoted to ensuing the safety and equipment levels of the troops.

It seems in the videogame age those responsible for supply of kit and looking after the troops ignore that entirely in favour of bigger bangs, more tech kit, and the like.

I think if we sent the children of those in power to the front line, or to schools in the danger zone, everyone else around them would a damned sight safer, and conflicts would be resolved a lot sooner.

reply to post by Rob37n

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Thats a bit of a simplistic view and not even addressing the topic at hand. Procurement has nothing to do with development.

Lack of helicopters is a result of the MoD trying to do a Chinook deal on the cheap and cutting out Boeing, as a result of political pressure to cut costs. This is nothing to with development.

New vehicles for the guys on the front line has been developed and many have reached the front line. Some have been found wanting as the nature of the threat changes, granted, but they're getting better as a result of R&D.

Body armour is nothing to do development and is to do with procurement. The tech is there and has been developed ages ago, but poor logistics, admin errors and dodgy procurement decisions meant some went without in the first weeks of the Iraq war, but I challenge you to provide ANY evidence that troops in Afghanistan don't have the required body armour.

Same with the boots.

You're rehashing old stories from 2003 when we rushed 40,000 men and women out to the gulf on short notice and had trouble with supply lines.

The only problems they have in Afghanistan now is helicopters (or lack thereof) and some unreliable vehicles. In terrain like Afghanistan, heavy armoured vehicles are slow and are limited, so lighter vehicles are needed. It's taken time, but new vehicles have been developed and are being ordered for front line service, such as Vikings and Mastiffs.

But, with you'r reasoning, we should cease any R&D in favour of ordering the same kit the Army originally has had problems with.

Any more info from anyone else on this subject. The very fact that this subject seems to be so secret, im intrigued!................

reply to post by veritas 7

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Well, like I said, all R&D is done by the above two agencies I mentioned, so it's worthwhile looking at them.

But, again as I said, it depends on your definition of "black budget" (a very US term, btw).

Billions were spent on the F-35, Type 45, the Carriers and a new frigate design is in the works, plus the Astute class, various armoured vehicles.... The list goes on...

What is it you're after, exactly?

The only real reason they admitted to Chevaline was because it was running so far over budget that they couldn't hide it anymore. Presumably then, so long as they keep to budget, we won't find out what they do at Aldermaston these days.

From time to time little titbits of information or non information as it must be treated escapes the negative pressure vacuum of the black budget world.
The most interesting one that i can remember is the tale of a woman who got a degree in biology and was approached by the navy to work on a project.
She was approached because of who her father was he was someone high up in the naval establishment and they obviously thought because of the family connection she could be trusted.
The only information that came out about her time there was that she had to stop working there because of what she was seeing, she said that the research was done underground somewhere and that "They" were there involved in the research.
she never said who "They" were but they obviously frightened her enough to give up the job and say what little she did.
i never found out the name or who her father was but im quite sure that her story is true and whatever she was working on had something to do with bio-engineering humanoids and aliens were involved.
if anyone can remember seeing this story or knows more please post.

The United Kingdom has the second largest R&D spending, behind the United States, in the world.

There is not a secret budget, just numerous projects (such as the current anti-gravity and stealth project) that is not made public - or to Parliament.

The main reason for my post, was really just out of curiosity. We always hear about "Black Budget" defence spending from the USA and just wanted to know if Britain had a similar budget. I appreciate the response from Stumason, Infinite and others. Im a man who searches for the truth, and am always intrigued by subjects such as this. My intuition, for what it's worth, tells me there must be more to this subject than meets the eye.

Regards,

reply to post by veritas 7

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Great Britain and America also share military technology - not just intelligence. Classified British projects are routinely tested in Nevada (not just Commonwealth nations, such as Australia)

Please elighten me Infinite. Another question i pose on this subject is, do you think the UK has hidden "money/budget" for deep underground bases (DUMB). Alot of info that has been discussed about these subjects is all over the internet, but when it comes to info on UK regarding this it seems to be rather sparse. Britain seems to be rather secretive on these subjects, there just must be more.

Have a look at

Taranis

UK Defence Procurement

There used to be some interesting stuff out there about HALO as well, but the computer game of the same name has diluted it to almost nothing.



[edit on 9/11/09 by neformore]

In terms of military R&D, AWE shares space with Lockheed Martin at Aldermaston, Lockheed Martin are, in fact, part of the management consortium. It is a tight relationship, though the US provides most of the funding (they're good like that). And as you state, the UK use the Nuclear testing facilities in Nevada.

Anyone have any info on Deep Underground Military Bases (DUMB) in UK. Im aware of "so called" DUMB'S spoken about on the internet, but nothing on UK. Although someone, i wont name here, said that the likely place was somewhere in Wales. Any of this sound familiar to anyone. I think this particular subject is rather relevant at the moment, with many talking of survival and the end of the world, cataclysm's etc.