House passes health care reform bill; Vote garners only one Republican

This is a big disappointment.

The Government is selling our "Bill of Rights" out from under us. If the American People do not ask for the Constitution to be upheld... we will lose the country that has given hope to MANY Billions of people.

That is All-

Carry on-

Turn your tv's back on now-

- Static Noise -

reply to post by Bored To Tears


It's more of an analogy about the scare tactics used by the GOP, & the US Chamber of Commerce.

I just don't buy the hype, what I do want is to be able to get health insurance without it breaking me.

reply to post by DYepes

Government employed citizens will be doing all the clerical work. The various local agencies and department will be run by citizen elected citizens just as school board and local government.

Your city has a mayor and a city council. The council members, as well as the mayor and several other elected officialls will also serve on the boards of other agencies or departents within the municipal jurisdiction.

Your describing a bureaucracy. More red tape. Each level further separates itself from the average taxpayer. Each entity doing what they think is best for the taxpayers.

But if you believe taxpayers are in control, then so be it. We all have our on views on it and only time will tell us which view holds up.

reply to post by jam321


Then we agree on the basic premise! There needs to be a balance, a meeting in the middle. Where we probably disagree is where the middle is, and that's fine.

My whole premise is based on the fact that a healthy skepticism of government is required, but that an outright disdain, a fanaticism, for the evils of government also do us no justice (BTW, I'm not implying, Jam, that this is your particular point of view, but it is the POV of so many that post hate on ATS).

Where the government cannot be trusted, fine! cut the strings. But to me, government can serve us in so many ways because of its innate capabilities. The key is an educated and intolerant electorate. If we as a people can say "These are the principles and guidelines by which you will operate on, and if you don't you're out!" Then that changes the game IMO.

If we got it through to our reps that the BS stops at the next election, they will begin again to represent us. If we as a people can set that foundation, then we CAN begin trusting government with more responsibility, secure in the notion that IF power begins to shift for selfish reasons, change will come, and everyone will know it.

reply to post by whatukno


Looks like you will get it too. Just remember not everything said bad about it is a scare tactic. Expand your liberal mind and take in all information, not just the good stuff.

I have government ran health care, be careful of what you ask for.

Originally posted by Bored To Tears

I have government ran health care, be careful of what you ask for.

Bored.... Where do you have it? And What's it like? Be as objective as you can. Give me the pros and give me the cons. I think everyone would benefit from hearing this from someone other than Sean Hannity and Michael Moore.

reply to post by tommy_boy

If we got it through to our reps that the BS stops at the next election, they will begin again to represent us. If we as a people can set that foundation, then we CAN begin trusting government with more responsibility, secure in the notion that IF power begins to shift for selfish reasons, change will come, and everyone will know it.

I blame the reps for a lot. Mainly because the majority are educated and should know better. But I feel the biggest problem is the voters. Voters who fail to research the candidates. Voters who defend their party even when the party is in the wrong. Voters who don't press their reps to do the right thing. Voters who just plain complacent and really don't want to get involved in one of the arenas that affect their lives the most.

Name a sports team or celebrity and they can give you every minor detail. Name an issue and they get that blank stare and a big I don't know.

You do know that you will be paying into this for at least 5 years and still not have coverage, right? So that means taxes go uip, a LOT, because the Bush tax cuts go away in 2010, then this will hit our paychecks on top of that.

Then, you still have to pay for your bills and your own insurance and pray that you do not get get sick or injured for 5 years before the public option kicks in and actually starts covering people.

That is, *if* it passes the senate. That is, if it is not ruled unconstitutional to jail and fine people for not buying a consumer product.

Just wait too, until all this extended unemployment benefits ends, which I feel close to certain was behind the rush of pushing this bill through.

Then, ask yourself why Congress doesn't have to use the public option.

Ask yourself why the Unions do not have to use the public option.

Ask yourself what other products the government will force you to buy if this passes all the way through.

Then, ask yourself how it is going to feel to see all the people voted out in 2012.

Reminds me of them interviewing those people in Detroit that lined up to get their checks from Obama. They asked them where they thought the money came from, and one woman answered, "From his private stash!"

Something tells me many of you already probably live off the government, or maybe are not even old enough to vote.

reply to post by whatukno

what I do want is to be able to get health insurance without it breaking me.

Then work hard, stay with a company that offers it long enough and you will get it; just like most of us that have it have done.

We did not ask for anything to be given to us, why should we be willing to pay for other people to get it free?

I would also like for anyone that has posted in opposition of the Patriot Act, or any other Government program that limits our freedoms, to justify "our" government FORCING me to buy a consumer product.

Anyone??

It would seem that all of those that have spoken out about the government taking our freedoms away, and you know who you are, are only "strong" enough to stand up when it is convenient and doesn't require some effort or sacrifice to keep those freedoms.

Semper

Originally posted by Libertygal

You do know that you will be paying into this for at least 5 years and still not have coverage, right? So that means taxes go uip, a LOT, because the Bush tax cuts go away in 2010, then this will hit our paychecks on top of that.

A bit misleading, libertygal, since the Bush tax cuts were primarily for the top percentage of earners, and everything is being done to only raise taxes on that same bunch. You may be in that top earners elite class, but most of us are not. The expiration of the Bush tax cuts won't affect us in the middle class a whole lot.

People WITH insurance today pray that they don't get sick, because those WITH coverage on a daily basis get hit with thousands and thousands of dollars of unpaid bills. Don't make it sound like this new bill is going to cause some uniquely new problem.

Congress doesn't have to use the public option for the same reason I don't have to use it: Because their employer offers coverage.

Unions don't have to use the public option because they have Collective Bargaining Agreements with their employers that negotiates health insurance. If you're implying that the bill exempts unions from needing to consider the public option in negotiations, then I agree with you, it should be on the table.

In terms of cost, I thought the CBO certified that this actually pays for itself? Am I wrong? Did that not happen?

reply to post by tommy_boy

since the Bush tax cuts were primarily for the top percentage of earners, and everything is being done to only raise taxes on that same bunch.

That is so completely wrong and yet.. Very politically correct..

I am PURE middle class and the BTC's have helped me tremendously..

(I'm a cop by the way in case you start thinking I'm rich)

Poor people don't pay taxes anyway, (I come from a VERY poor family in West Virginia) so what good are tax cuts when you don't pay any taxes anyway?

The problem here is all the BS that is floating around and those of us that have lived know it is BS, but so many are afraid to speak up and be called "cruel to the poor", "Un feeling" or just "rude"..

But most of us have lived poor at one time, we remember getting all of our tax money back and even some extra if we had a kid...Many of us have family members on Medicaid and know that they get free health care that we already pay for.

There is a Temp worker in my office, single mother, that looks forward to tax time. She makes several thousand dollars on that particular day when I write my checks to the IRS.

My sister currently is on Medicaid and brags about how good her medical is.

I have worked my whole life to get what I have, worked and stayed with the same department even when it was a pure struggle. Now I may lose it and in addition, be forced to pay for a consumer product by a supposedly "free" government..

Semper

[edit on 11/8/2009 by semperfortis]

Seems to me, king george is still around..revolutionary war, was agianst taxes* hence forth, americans fought back, becuase of so many taxes. King george. Loks like congree sided wtih kng george after all these years.

"your rights are nothing more then temporary privligaes that can be taken away at any moment just ask the japanese americans from WWII".

The government is now going to go after anything they deem unhealthy. You think it stops with smokers just wait thier commin for the fat people next and who knows where its gonna stop.

The government is going to reach deep into our pockets for this one. This aint free healthcare we'll all be paying for it in one way or another.

Haha i see many her are against this reform over in US.. can this be the perfect example of people thriwing in their own misery? Isnt USA the country where people use over twice as much on their medical bills compared to other countries?

USA is the ONLY industrialized country that lacks public health service. You have the most expensive health care system by far! Even if you have insurance! Why would you not want to change that?? Is it just plain fear of the unknown or ignorance?


My opinion of americans has only diminished after hearing you yell since your president was elected. He has a hidden socialist agenda and is basicly Hitler according to you. Seems like you dont care about your fellow countrymen, and you dont trust people. There is something wrong with your country indeed.

What is wrong with everyone chipping in to make a BETTER day for everyone? If you cared about something exept yourself you would be the best country on earth.

[edit on 8/11/2009 by Daniem]

reply to post by semperfortis


I'm on medicaid and it sucks compaired to blue cross. It don't even cover my monthy doctor bill. I have to see one of medicaids doctors if I want my bill coverd and they're a joke. I'd rather pay cash for my doctor then see one of medicaids doctors. I've seen them in the past. The only thing I use medicaid for is to pay for my persciptions.

reply to post by wantsome


Your comparing medicaid to BCBS?

Medicaid is free...

I never said it was the "best", just that my sister likes it and pays nothing..

Semper

reply to post by Daniem
I'm an american and there are some decent people in this country but most are out for numero uno. My country is fueld by greed and personal gain at all cost. It's a cutthroat society where only those with the means succeed.

reply to post by wantsome

It's a cutthroat society where only those with the means succeed.

Everyone here has the same means to succeed..

I was abandoned as a child, raised in an orphanage and then by my Grandmother on 123.00 a month Social Security

I'm not complaining, I have worked hard and "made it", why can't others?

Maybe a little less complaining, a little less hating people that do make it, and a little more hard work? I bet that will work wonders on anyone's success...

Semper

Originally posted by tommy_boy

A bit misleading, libertygal, since the Bush tax cuts were primarily for the top percentage of earners, and everything is being done to only raise taxes on that same bunch. You may be in that top earners elite class, but most of us are not. The expiration of the Bush tax cuts won't affect us in the middle class a whole lot.

Hm, I do not think this is misleading at all. That means the companies that many of us work for will not give raises, if they haven't already stopped giving them. So, when inflation hits, (and it IS coming!) and cost of living goes up yearly mind you, we have no redress.

It means less disposable income, it means less consumerism, it means MORE jobs overseas as we outsource the *rest* of this country.

It means more of us employed by those companies may lose our jobs as they flee overseas to avoid huge tax rates, and have cheaper labor. The US is currently the highest in the world for coorporate tax rates, and they are only going up.

It means that some of us employed by those companies may lose our jobs to make up for the loss of tax cuts and increasing taxes. We cannot just keep printing monopoly money.

I don't see that as being misleading at all. And, if they do go overseas, thats thousands, mabye millions more unemployed, and eventually *someone* is going to have to pay for those taxes.

49% of people in the US pay no taxes. That leaves the remainder of us holding the bag. For anyone to even engage the idea this will not affect middle class is a huge misnomer.

If the big corporations bail, the remainder of those that have jobs will have 0 disposable income. Who is going to feed and house all these unemployed people? I mean, great, we will not have to worry about their healthcare, but what about what they eat? Where they live, sleep?

People WITH insurance today pray that they don't get sick, because those WITH coverage on a daily basis get hit with thousands and thousands of dollars of unpaid bills. Don't make it sound like this new bill is going to cause some uniquely new problem.

I just had surgery and the bill was over 71 thousand dollars. I have to pay 400 dollars. Perhaps people should choose better insurance?

Look, I never said something didn't need to be done, but I do think this is huge overkill. They could have just as easily regulated the insurance companies and expanded existing programs to cover those who could not afford their own coverage.

They cannot run Medicare and Medicaid, WHY should we even consider they can run something like this?

They fail to account for the cost of living and gasoline and food, when people *apply* for assistance. They don't care what your bills are, they only care what you earn. That's a huge mistake.

Congress doesn't have to use the public option for the same reason I don't have to use it: Because their employer offers coverage.

I can't wait till the day you wake up and realize YOU are the Congress' employer! YOU are paying for their caddillac plan! HI!

Remember the AIG bailout that WE paid for? That's because they hold most of Congress' holdings!

Just what are you planning on doing in the coming years when your employer opts to pay the fine and just let you get the government option?

Their whole *intent* is to drive insurance companies out of business. This is about government control. There is an interview with Obama where he *states* his intent is to drive insurance companies out of business, and have the government option be the ONLY option.

He states, "It may take 15 years, maybe 20, but this is what I want." But the MS kept that from you, just like all the other things, like bankrupting the coal industry, and driving our electric bills through the roof. His words, *not* mine!

They got our banks, they got our automakers, they got our housing. What else after healthcare? We have almost nothing left. Why is this OK?!

So ok, Bush fooked up, but do you really think people deserve *this*? In punishing "repugs", people are blind to the fact they are punishing themselves. It is insanity.

Unions don't have to use the public option because they have Collective Bargaining Agreements with their employers that negotiates health insurance. If you're implying that the bill exempts unions from needing to consider the public option in negotiations, then I agree with you, it should be on the table.

It dies exempt them, just like it exempts Congress.

I have collective bargaining too, that's what my HMO does. They negotiate a rate, and thats what the hospital gets, regardless of how much they bill, they get that rate and nothing more, nothing less.

I guess you missed that part of the bailout where tax dollars are being used to pay for the Unions coverage? There are thousands of unempoyed Union workers that have lifetime coverage due to you and me. GM and Chrysler could not afford to keep paying their coverage, they got bailed out. Thats your money, and mine, and Bill's and Mary's. The government is US!

We The People now own GM and Chrysler. A *lot* of that money went to pay for the coverage of the retired and unemployable Union workers. (By unemployable, I mean the ones who were sitting in the break rooms 8 hours a day because there was no work.)

Hey, wait! That's YOU again! Oh, maybe not. I wonder. Are you are in that 49% that don't have to pay any taxes? (you get a nice refund every year?)

In terms of cost, I thought the CBO certified that this actually pays for itself? Am I wrong? Did that not happen?

You were misled, and not by me! The CBO only states it will "pay for itself" for the first five years. (Thats the first 5 years no one has any coverage, and we are all paying taxes IN to the program, right?)

After that, it grows exponentially, up to 10 years. During the second 5 years, the billions in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid (wait, isn't that the elderly and the poor?) *should* help them break about even.

After 10 years? The CBO won't touch it. Therein lies the rub.

reply to post by semperfortis

Maybe a little less complaining, a little less hating people that do make it, and a little more hard work? I bet that will work wonders on anyone's success...

Dang! I like the sound of that! Let's hear a big round of applause for Semper!!!