I wish God exists...

reply to post by lifecitizen
Once again you are presuming something about me.
I was merely reaffirming your statement about man is
his own worst enemy is all!
But, whatever you wanna think is fine with me!

Um, ya, I'll be waiting for man to get it together on his own.
Wonder how long I have to wait before we destroy ourselves
in the meantime?
Ya, thats progress! Keep the hope alive!

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by lifecitizen
Once again you are presuming something about me.
I was merely reaffirming your statement about man is
his own worst enemy is all!
But, whatever you wanna think is fine with me!

Um, ya, I'll be waiting for man to get it together on his own.

Wonder how long I have to wait before we destroy ourselves
in the meantime?

Ya, thats progress!

Keep the hope alive!

You werent just reaffirming Doda you took it as an opportunity to give god the plug, lol- saying we need him to survive- at least be honest especially as it's all here in black and white

Exactly. Thats why man's way fails everytime. And precisely why we need him to survive ourselves.

I will, thanks- there is always hope

[edit on 8-11-2009 by lifecitizen]
edit again quote didnt come out!

[edit on 8-11-2009 by lifecitizen]

reply to post by lifecitizen


Perhaps it's a she. But regardless. You are crossing that line between fact and opinion again. But I am now intrigued, how do you know this for sure? Seeing as to how you are so sure. I would have imagined discounting the stories would be how one grew to no believe. Makes it sound like you did not approach the question very objectively and are only seeking to prove preconceptions about a question that is really unanswerable at this juncture.

reply to post by lifecitizen


Are commas the now functioning as periods? Is english your second langauge? Or even better yet do you honestly expect me to believe that? Might wish to re-read your post.
One does not need to be able to control thoughts to attempt to frusterate an debate opponent thusly making the debate opponent render unto one the feeling of illusionary feeling of having "won" the argument.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by lifecitizen

 

Are commas the now functioning as periods?

Is english your second langauge? Or even better yet do you honestly expect me to believe that?

Might wish to re-read your post.
One does not need to be able to control thoughts to attempt to frusterate an debate opponent thusly making the debate opponent render unto one the feeling of illusionary feeling of having "won" the argument.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Sorry my use of commas annoys you so much Watcher.

Honestly expect you to believe what? you asked me if I was trying to frustrate you- I said I wasn't- other than that I don't understand what you're trying to say here

Sorry also if you perceive me as trying to win some argument- it's a message board- you are posting posts directed at me- I am replying, I didn't realise we were in a competition- I thought we were conversing

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by lifecitizen

 

Perhaps it's a she. But regardless. You are crossing that line between fact and opinion again. But I am now intrigued, how do you know this for sure? Seeing as to how you are so sure. I would have imagined discounting the stories would be how one grew to no believe. Makes it sound like you did not approach the question very objectively and are only seeking to prove preconceptions about a question that is really unanswerable at this juncture.

- could you maybe quote the post of mine that you are responding to? then I might have a clue what you are talking about.

I will go back though, and see which one I think you are responding to.

edit to add: cant see which post of mine you are referring to- perhaps who is a she?

[edit on 8-11-2009 by lifecitizen]

edit again to add: and how do I know what for sure?

You imagining discounting stories is how one would grow to not believe I think is referring to my not believing in the flood story- like I said I don't belive in god regardless of that story- sorry that is so hard for you to understand- I didn't realise I had to reach the same conclusions the same way everyone else does.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by lifecitizen]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

If one assumed that the part of the Bible about the Earth being 6000 years old is a misprint or "misconception," or even altered, then God is still pretty much a very valid concept. People have been brainwashed with the idea that since evolution exists, God must not exist. That's not true. There are many details about evolution that pretty much require "God" as an explanation. Same thing with the origin of anything.

reply to post by lifecitizen


Perhaps "gawd" is a she. Who knows in the end.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by lifecitizen

 

Perhaps "gawd" is a she. Who knows in the end.

Perhaps- I didn't say god wasn't, what I said was god is a he in the bible- which he is.

Originally posted by np6888
If one assumed that the part of the Bible about the Earth being 6000 years old is a misprint or "misconception," or even altered, then God is still pretty much a very valid concept. People have been brainwashed with the idea that since evolution exists, God must not exist. That's not true. There are many details about evolution that pretty much require "God" as an explanation. Same thing with the origin of anything.

No they haven't- alot of people who believe in god believe in evolution- it's called evolutionary creationism or theistic evolution- take your pick.

Originally posted by loner007

Now anything with matter cannot leave the universe either. Some unknown force starts to push back any objects trying to leave the universe boundaries.

Have you been to the boundaries of the universe recently? Were you trying to leave?

As they say, why reinvent the wheel of a good point when a perfect quote already exists?

Over my years of internet browsing and forum posting, I've collected a few pages of good quotes that I deemed worthy of my list.
Here are a few poignant ones that address the topic of god, meaninglessness, evolution, religion, etc...




"I did not force them to do anything. They are merely practicing a faith they decided to believe. Why do you think people believe in God? ..It's because they want to. It's not easy living in this rotten world. There is nothing certain while living on this world. Do you get it? God didn't create humans. Humans created God."
- Londes, Cowboy Bebop Episode #23



Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
- Epicurus



"Existence itself may be considered an abyss possessed of no meaning. I do not read this as a pessimistic statement."
- Hakim Bey



"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."
- Napoleon



“Those who argue that art and philosophy are proof of human worth neglect to mention that, in the scheme we have devised, artists and philosophers are powerless and largely without prestige. Art, music, and philosophy are merely poignant examples of what we might have been had not the priests and traders gotten hold of us.”
- George Carlin



"As things get worse and worse for us, we're going to need more and more of all the things that give us relief and oblivion and all the things that get us revved up and excited. More religion, more revolution, more drugs, more television channels, more sports, more casinos, more pornography, more lotteries, more access to the Web--more and more and more of it all--to give ourselves the impression that life is nonstop fun. But meanwhile, of course, every morning we must shake off the hangover and forget about fun for eight or ten hours while we drag our quota of stones up the side of the pyramid."
- Daniel Quinn, Beyond Civilization



“I do not "believe" in evolution any more than I "believe" that the earth revolves around the sun. To say that there's "no proof" for evolution is very like saying that there's "no proof" that the earth revolves around the sun. Evolution has not been "proved," and it isn't taught in the schools as something that has been proved. It is invariably referred to as a theory, but in science a theory is not a conjecture that is "unproved," it is an organizing concept for evidence, and by this time, it has proved to be such an effective and persuasive organizing concept for the evidence gathered by so many earth and life sciences, that very, very, very few scientists doubt that evolution took place. Evolution makes sense of what we know about the world and about the community of life--and the theory that the world came into being all at once in its present form does not. It is untrue that the theory of evolution "completely denies the idea of God." It does nothing of the sort. Even the current pope recently acknowledged that. All it "completely denies" is that the world was created all at once, in its present form. If God is omnipotent, he could as easily have created a universe that evolved over billions of years as one that came into being instantaneously in the form we know.”
- Daniel Quinn

[edit on 8-11-2009 by NoHierarchy]

Originally posted by die_another_day
Before I didn't believe in God,
I thought of God as someone that only a weak person would turn to,

Then I became an agnostic,
I looked at the complexity of this universe and did not think it was a coincidence,

Then I became an atheist,
I realized that religion is the only thing that has convinced people that is an invisible man in the sky.

But now, I wish that God existed,
If he exists, then anything is possible,
One will not have to live in a mundane world with no purpose,
One can achieve his/her fantasies,
One can change the world.

See this is what makes me feel sick.
This is what makes me want to vomit al discourse into the face of the purveyor.

the very fact that the concept of "GOD" is referred to as a "PERSON" makes me want to actually slap the living chit out of the OP.

it's RIDICULOUS.

you actual set to write a piste about the most powerful force in the universe and you maintain that it is a PERSON..
oh my freaking ... FAAAAWK...

listen..

the only "god" that exists (and it does) .. is WITHIN you.

and this isn't some intangible hoody-gooru type thing.. this is literally the POTENTIAL for you to actually inhabit a body that is capable of GODLY DEEDS.

if you ACT ACCORDINGLY.. if you ACT AND BEHAVE as a god would..

and use sexuality to create within.. instead of obeying it's command ...obeying the animal spasm....

man i read threads like this and i seriously want to pull my hair out.

i can't stand it..

there's alot of work i need to do in regards to patience......


god isn't a person outside of yourself..

god is a potential foce .. your physiologcy can actually change in order to be one of many gody-types.. and when all are gods.. then god will inhabit the throne here in the kingdom and walk with us.. AS us..

don't get disillusioned as some "person" ..."out there"...

please.. no more fairy tale movie-story crap.

DO IT YOURSELF.

-

-

Yes, there is a god,

My daughter went into a diabetic coma two weeks ago, from Diabetic ketoacidosis,

Her body chemistry was unsustainable for life, and the doctors said she was near death, her heart stopped function right, and her cells were depleted,

Yes, her natural body was unsustainable and non-compatible for life, but something beyond nature sustained her.

Without the power of prayer, neither I nor her would have made it, God gave me and her inner strength,

She not only survived, she is back at work,

The power of prayer has seen me through many trials and tribulations in my life time,

I cannot imagine life without faith.

We shall sing on that beautiful shore
The melodious songs of the blest
And our spirit shall sorrow no more

[edit on 093030p://bSunday2009 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by HankMcCoy


the drug use was an example of free will(some drug use causes deformity). I quoted no exact medical condition. I am not in a medical proffesion and i am not a religious theologist. I do say however that you cannot blame god for our actions, or what happens on earth. He has no control. If you choose to learn about christian faith, then you will better understand god, the holy spirit and jesus and thier roles in our lives. As for the OP, up until september 15.2009 I was considerd an atheiest. I was not raised into a religion and was and kinda still am driven by a science based way of thinking.I only began to beleive in god this past year. I had been pondering things much the way you are. I felt I should atleast learn about the religion, But this time with an open heart and mind. If i were you I would maybe try whats calle the "Alpha" course by Nickey Gumble. It's a 10 week course one day a week. I'm in week 6 and have found it a lot easier to understand the belief this way rather than trying to make sense of the bible or going to church. Good luck OP. with everything.

Now my own comments on the matter:

I'm personally agnostic, I think it's fine to say, "I don't know."

Keep in mind, the vast majority of religions (of the salvationist Judeo-Christian brand) originate from a very small area of Earth we know as the middle east. During the agricultural revolution and the dawn of our civilization in the Fertile Crescent, Christianity/Judaism/Islam were spread to the four corners of the Earth coincidentally because the most imperialist civilization ever to exist adopted them. They won the wars and so they converted the spirits. These religions (especially Christianity) became quite imperialistic themselves, going on crusades and sending out missionaries to convert EVERYONE they could. This effectively destroyed entire cultures and stripped them of their own spiritual beliefs in favor of a narrow, European, Christian worldview. Just think, if East Asians or Native Americans or Africans or Pagan Europeans took over the world in a similar manner, we'd all be raised with entirely different spiritual teachings. It's all relative to how you were raised, and on the macro-scale, who won the historical wars.

I once heard a very good argument made against the unyielding belief in a god- the logic goes like, why do the religious automatically believe that the universe was created by a "WHO"? This is a religious person's unconscious logical (or illogical) assumption, that the universe must have been created by a "WHO" but never stop to think it could be a "WHAT" or even a "HOW". Plenty of spiritual beliefs attribute unknown phenomena to a conscious being, to gods of different elements/systems, even putting out offerings to please them. However, we all know that there is no "god" of the moon or of the planets or of fertile soil or rain. Or who knows... maybe there are, however, the explanations science gives us seem to be much more plausible and realistic when we actually seek to observe phenomena/elements in logical detail and cause/effect.

One thing I'll add, though, as a positive to god is some of the experiences people have had, specifically with things like astral projection and meditation. There's also the fact that most human cultures throughout history have held some sort of belief in a higher supernatural power. So who knows? Maybe all our ancestors might have been onto something, even if they couldn't put their finger on an accurate definition of god or the form it takes...

Thus my agnosticism with heavy leanings towards atheism.

When I think of God I tend to lean towards the non-abstract non-logical thinking of the ancient far east. A thinking which evolved their language to what it is today; very different to our Western tongue.

They believe there is an ultimate reality which underlies and unifies everything we see and experience. They call this reality the Tao, The Way, or the One, or the Whole. They believed the universe had a essence to it, or a cosmic process which all things are tied to.

They believed one who could recognize this flow and change patterns became one with the Tao. More or less living at one with nature.

In the words of Huai Nan Tzu, a philosopher of the second century B.C. :

He who conforms to the course of the Tao, following the natural processes of Heaven and Earth, finds it easy to manage the whole world.

It's more or less an idea that all things are connected to an ultimate flow of change. That reaching harmony is finding this flow in all things. A very difficult state of mind, and even more so in this day in age. They believed self-gain and self ambition is moving against this flow. Non-action is the acting with the Tao. Letting nature move unfettered. Very paradoxical and confusing stuff which needs deep thought.

Sacred-texts.com has some good online etexts on the subject if interested.



[edit on 8-11-2009 by Xtinguish]

Originally posted by die_another_day
Before I didn't believe in God,
I thought of God as someone that only a weak person would turn to,

Then I became an agnostic,
I looked at the complexity of this universe and did not think it was a coincidence,

Then I became an atheist,
I realized that religion is the only thing that has convinced people that is an invisible man in the sky.

But now, I wish that God existed,
If he exists, then anything is possible,
One will not have to live in a mundane world with no purpose,
One can achieve his/her fantasies,
One can change the world.

Humankind had a great destiny, we were to be more than children to God, we were and are to be Gods. It takes a lot of hard core learning to fulfill that destiny. There are many hardships and questionings and trials and purifications to get to that place, but the rewards are amazing and quite literally, beyond our current comprehension.

The biggest hurdle God has to bring us over is the inner desire to self-destruct and return to a glorious infant/mother bliss state of being. He has to slowly bring us out of that desire and into a desire to be more mature and enjoy the ups and downs in life instead of hating all the downs and not knowing how to enjoy the ups, as most of us tend to do.

And the second greatest hurdle is getting someone to want to live forever or to see the benefits of it, instead of fearing it. It is hard work, even for a God, to turn such new beings into Gods themselves, very hard work. You try it. ;-)

Teach them ethics, the price of bad behaviors, the many possible outcomes of different life styles, also the tragedies of abusing power. Try teaching newbie creatures how to be kind to each other and to share, even human beings can't seem to teach most of their offspring these two simple principles.

Finally, I offer these two things:

There are good things that will come out of this darkness. Many important lessons are coming from this trial we are under, these growing pains. And many people learn much more slowly than others, and to bring them in, God has to allow more leeway, even if it is quite horrendous to us. And whatever they take from us, we will get it back, and it will be better than before.

And as to why God is so silent right now:

I saw a streetlamp, one night, that was trying to flicker to life. Stars were shining beautifully behind it. But when the light came to full brightness, I couldn't see the little stars behind it anymore.

reply to post by lifecitizen

Of course I'm giving him a plug!
His love for you is really something you can't understand obviously.
Besides, you would not believe it even if I could somehow explain it
so you could understand it anyway!
His love is without measure. Just like he had no begining.
Mere mortals cannot even begin to understand this!
Why do you think you could understand his immense love either?
He gave his only son to die for us!
Since you enjoy putting me in a small box, I will you too.
You are a flat earther type. Yet this is your choice once again.
Be glad you have one at all!
He's saved my life many times as well as others on here.
As you can see from other posts, he works miracles.

Just be glad you dont need one!

I'd call that blessed.
Maybe mankind will find a way to survive himself on his own,
but from the looks of this f'd up world, I wouldn't bet on it.
I'd bet on the creator of the entire universe myself.