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The Fourth Kind: Beware of "abduction" prop/agenda.

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posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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I disagree.

If you know what is going on, this film represents an area 99% of people do not understand, fear and therefore are ignorant of.

Sure it focuses on the very negative areas of the abduction phenomena. It focused on that for a good reason, but you need to know something about the human condition and the psychology of fear and ontological shock.

I think that besides the fear market this film rides on, it does a good job of showing why most people are not ready to grasp this phenomena yet.

This is not Star Trek. Aliens and what/where they come from demands we understand the fundamental reality our safe little bubble is nestled in.

There are mostly benevolent species in our planets experience, but the malevolent or subjective species are what make news. This film shows what such a malevolent species actually did and are doing now in many places.

People kill themselves for a very real reason that is hard to explain to most people. You likely do not understand what I am talking about, but I cannot explain it till I have more time. It is actually a real psychological conundrum that is so painful that taking ones life is preferable.

Here is a short example.

Imagine someone slips you a strong hallucinogen. Lets say it opens you up to a level or levels of reality you are not familiar with and that then manifests your fears, that become self amplifying. Lets then say that you find you can never come down, or go back to normal.

Try and not remember this world. Now try and not remember a new one that scares the living crap out of you.

That is why these and others like in the Mothman events and many, many other such areas where these and other beings are using humans for subjective reasons, find their only relief is to kill them selves and their loves ones as in this film, that is, you remember, a true story.

You need a lot of reading over the last 30 years of Alien and UFO experiences and study to see this. Dr. David Jacobs is a good start for a reading list that deals with this type of effect.

I'll try and find a better way of explaining this, but in the mean time please understand how much of your own reaction is of that same fear.

No, this is not the whole of UFO and Alien reality, but it is an important part to understand, or you will fall into the same category as the people in this event. You will not be able to deal with this reality when confronted with it. ANd we all might be soon.

Now, you might have only a sliver of a hint at why this secret is kept from the populations by those whom do somewhat understand.

You are not in Kansas anymore. You are not even in this universe when you know the truth. get ready to face fear that is almost liquid.

My conclusion is that this film was important. The sensationalism used only a crumb of the potential fear for its needs to market. This is beyond 95% of the populations ability to understand.

So, the education of the masses begins in earnest.

ZG



[edit on 11/8/2009 by ZeroGhost]




posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by bluestreak53
 



Originally posted by bluestreak53
What ridicule? All he is saying is the movie is an over the top, horror movie that bears little in common with his experience in abduction research.

He probably wouldn't have even bothered to write anything if the movie was not falsely promoted as "based on authentic footage".

Why would it be confusing that he would criticize a movie which grossly distorts the "alien abduction phenomenom", whatever that really is?


...

Even if I asked the question,
to me his statements are hardly confusing.

The movie adds ridicule to the actual research of the UFO/ET phenomenon.

So does Bud Hopkins.

The so-called "abduction phenomenon" is a
concept based on fiction, belief and assumptions.

It is not based on facts.

...
..
.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Sol12
reply to post by bluestreak53
 


Even if I asked the question,
to me his statements are hardly confusing.

The movie adds ridicule to the actual research of the UFO/ET phenomenon.

So does Bud Hopkins.

The so-called "abduction phenomenon" is a
concept based on fiction, belief and assumptions.

It is not based on facts.

...
..
.



You need to check that.

First, what is a fact to you? Who needs to sign off on that for you to acknowledge it is a fact? The church, your guardian angel? Obama? the disembodied ghost of Einstein?

All what you call fact is likely called into question from your own subjective.

Science, now, at it's most latest accounting says there are no facts. It's what you believe that determines reality. So, what then is your fact?

Reality is a bitch.

ZG



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Tryptych
reply to post by Sol12
 

To me, the whole scenario of some hypothetical hyperbeings
being malevolent against less developed races sounds really naive.

Why would we want to "conquer" ants?


...

Some people seem to merely project their
own private attitudes unto "aliens".

Many folks don't have a problem
stepping on ants?


...
..
.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by ZeroGhost
 


Cool story 'bro.

Except you are missing one important thing: Evidence.

BTW: I actually think that psychedelics are a tool to understand larger concepts, such as the subject at hand, among other things. They bring light and knowledge (in the right hands), not fear and unclarity.

Not that i've ever taken any.


[edit on 8/11/2009 by Tryptych]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Tryptych
reply to post by ZeroGhost
 


Cool story 'bro.

Except you are missing one important thing: Evidence.


I concur,

Cool story, bro!



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by lifecitizen

Originally posted by ufo reality
To clarify...I don't mean Government propaganda. It's just pop culture crap in my opinion, but it will paint a very negative image of aliens in a lot of people's minds regardless of whether it's real footage or not.


I am ridiculously behind with movies- guess I'm not much of a movie goer

but watched Independance day last night on the tel- it really was quite disheartening to watch, fgs everyone was cheering at the end when the aliens were wiped out- I missed the start so wasnt sure if they attacked or not

Hollywood and the crap it churnes out is quite naueseating, no wonder I dont bother.


OMG!!! An entertaining movie where "FAKE" aliens are destroyed is disheartening to watch????



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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Ufologists are part of the coverup. To get the missing piece of the puzzle that even the UFO community doesn't want to tell you go to CE4research.com.
(CE stands for close encounter)


CE4research.com



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by ZeroGhost
 

...


Originally posted by ZeroGhost
"I disagree."


...

You are entitled to having an opinion.

...


Originally posted by ZeroGhost
So, what then is your fact?


...

I am not the subject here.

...
..
.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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I'm sorry, but you obviously have not looked into the methods that qualified hypnotic therapists use. They spend YEARS studying hypnosis and psychology, and they know the exact way to obtain reliable information without asking leading questions that may conjure false memories.

A hypnotist doesn't ask questions like... "Were you abducted by aliens?", they ask questions like "recount to me the events that ocurred to you on the night of ______.

There is a reason why hypnotism is being used by TRAINED PROFESSIONALS and is being taught at UNIVERSITIES- It is a valid scientific method when used by trained professionals. Even if you look into the history of people like hopkins, mack, and strieber, you'll find that the docotors come across abductees and their cases by accident and chance, and most of them refused to believe what they were hearing for a long time, until they realised large amounts of people were recounting very similar stories.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Sol12
Even if I asked the question,
to me his statements are hardly confusing.

The movie adds ridicule to the actual research of the UFO/ET phenomenon.

So does Bud Hopkins.

The so-called "abduction phenomenon" is a
concept based on fiction, belief and assumptions.

It is not based on facts.


I do agree that people believing the movie to be "based on real events" does make the subject seem more a matter of faith. Certainly it does show that the movie makers know there are a lot of guillible people out there. And this web forum does have a lot of people who seem to fall for every hoax UFO video that gets posted to You-Tube or elsewhere on the web.

I also agree that there is no factual proof to confirm that alien abductions actually occur in any physical sense. I disagree with your statement that "it is not based on facts". The facts may be disputed, but clearly people are talking about something they believe they have experienced - that is a fact. Likewise there are cases of "alien abduction" where the person does go missing. So although no proof of "alien abduction" exists, there are facts which suggest that there is an unsolved mystery.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by bluestreak53
 



Originally posted by bluestreak53
So although no proof of "alien abduction" exists,
there are facts which suggest that there is an unsolved mystery.


...

You make good points.

There may be an unsolved mystery,
then again, it is very easy to fabricate
'compelling evidence' to any notion really?

There are many unsolved mysteries.

"abduction" by extra-terrestrials is not one of them.

I repeat: Where are the facts?

Certainly the human psyche is largely
unexplored territory.

Do we consider all our fictions, dreams and fantasies
to be 'compelling evidence' of 'something'?

...

The real Mystery is ET's presence as evidenced by
the crop circle phenomenon.

Those are real actual facts in the fields?

Intricate, beautiful designs
seemingly ignored by the MSM and the scientific world?

Even here on ATS, only few people want to seriously discuss
the crop circle phenomenon?

Why?

Because it is REAL.

...



...
..
.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Sol12]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by Monts
 



Originally posted by Monts
I'm sorry, but you obviously have not looked into the methods
that qualified hypnotic therapists use.

...

It seems you haven't bothered to get the point here,
maybe due to not reading my posts properly?

Next to that, you perpetuate elements of the cliche
'urban myth' regarding "abduction" and related 'research'.

...


Originally posted by Monts
"..and most of them refused to believe what they were hearing
for a long time, until they realised large amounts of people
were recounting very similar stories."


...

To clarify:

Hypnosis/hypnotism is a valid technique when used for therapy
in those cases where facts/truth can be ascertained by other means.

It is not a valid method by itself
to obtain scientific/psychological facts/truth.

I'm aware that there are (still) psychologists and
others out there, who ignore this notion.

Conclusion:

Why hasn't anyone yet provided
actual facts to the hypothesis
regarding "abduction" by extra-terrestrials?

Because facts do not exist.

Only fiction, belief and assumptions exist.

My point is that these fictions, beliefs and assumptions
hinge largely on a faulty and outdated understanding
of what is hypnosis/hypnotism.

Next to that, these fictions, beliefs and assumptions
hinge on a deliberate misrepresentation regarding
the fact of visiting extra-terrestrials to Planet Earth.

The governments and many others know the facts,
however, refuse to share their information with
the population of Planet Earth.

- Visiting ETs are not unidentified,
neither are many of their spaceships.

- We are not alone in our Solar System.

- Visiting extra-terrestrials are Humans.

Instead, they muddy the waters
with unsubstantiated drivel,
add ridicule, instill fear
and seek to discredit any attempts to
seriously research the UFO/CROPCIRCLE phenomenon.

...
..
.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Sol12]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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I just saw the movie. Don't waste your money.

I've been researching the UFO/ET subject for 15 years. This was pure fiction fear-based crap. Aliens don't bend people in half and crack their spine. Thanks for tainting Ufology. Hollywood can burn for all I care...



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by ufo reality
This movie is bad for Ufology. This movie can be summed up with two words: "FEAR" and "PROPAGANDA"


I'm fond of saying that any discussion of UFOs, ETs and even abduction experiences is good for the cause. The "cause" being disclosure.

No science of the mind is perfect and probably never will be. Hypnosis is a system that works to some degree. (I've done it on others myself.) Exactly as with the whole UFO debacle that field is fraught with lies, con men and disinformation agencies. You cannot paint hypnosis with a broad stroke such as the presenter does. After all, for crying out loud, at the end he shows his agenda which wants to show the ETs in a warm, fuzzy light. He wants to distort the best evidence we have for what the truth seems to be. And that is the chilling truth that abductees are frequently if not universially treated as livestock when it comes to true abductions. Gods in UFOs would not do that. THEY ARE NOT GODS--just techonlogically and intellectually gifted.

I'm an abductee. It happened even before some of your parents were born, in 1964. I remember the beginning and ending, but not even with the help of the esteemed Dr. Leo Sprinkle was I able to go deep enough to uncover what may have actually happened to me during the two hour plus, of missing time. You know WHY I don't know what happened? Because they used mind control to hide those details from me. So deny all you want about hypnosis, but mind control is the most common procedure the ETs use on us to keep docile as they take us up. Anyone should see that this presenter's logic is just unreasonable to say the least.

I have my issues with the visitors. I also have a relationship that I discuss in my profile (if you are interested).

The term benevolent has long been used to describle the ETs since they have shown no direct signs of eating us for lunch. That is a mistake. More correctly, their treatment of us individually is as test subjects as done by largely disinterested superiors. (Sorta reminds me of my working as a vet's surgry assisstant.)
Get the job done, pet and stroke the patient for a few seconds. NEXT)



[edit on 8-11-2009 by Aliensun]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Aliensun]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Aliensun]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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this universe is too big for only one alien species. apparently, it's big enough for the human race's ego.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by Tryptych
reply to post by ZeroGhost
 


Cool story 'bro.

Except you are missing one important thing: Evidence.

BTW: I actually think that psychedelics are a tool to understand larger concepts, such as the subject at hand, among other things. They bring light and knowledge (in the right hands), not fear and unclarity.

Not that i've ever taken any.


[edit on 8/11/2009 by Tryptych]


I have. I have faced fear too. Fear that calls death a relief. Luckily for less a time than some who experience what some have in encountering these beings, and the world they radiate and infect your awareness with.

These substances, I only referenced in this explanation to make a point, are sacred tools. Tools so dangerous you need discipline in many modalities to take responsibility for even thinking of using. I understand.

As for evidence...

You can see it in the totality of the stories we hear. The experiences we have and feel.

Prove to me light exists. Can you put it in a bottle and bring it to me? Can you measure the fear and show it on a meter? EKG? PetScan, CatScan? Where is it. How do we know its real?

How do we know we love. Where is that? How much does that weigh?

Evidence is a term the old mechanist sciences use. The new science calls it repeatability. The newer sciences say there is no such thing.

Only your experience is experienced.

The world is no longer able to fit in a book of science. It never was.

If you believe it is true, you will manifest it. Spontanious healing, transmutation of cancer cells, placebo results.

the world is more what we make it than what it makes us believe.

ZG



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by Sol12
 


Only using your statement as a convenience to approach the answer you beg.

I do not know you, and are talking to the questions. I am sorry if I let the context feel personal.

Truly.

ZG



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by ufo reality
I just saw the movie. Don't waste your money.

I've been researching the UFO/ET subject for 15 years. This was pure fiction fear-based crap. Aliens don't bend people in half and crack their spine. Thanks for tainting Ufology. Hollywood can burn for all I care...



Before I sign out I want to make clear what I am telling everyone.

I've also been reading and researching for myself 40 years. Through actual investigative organizations for only a few years. I too see some issues to corroborate and get to the bottom of. For now however, I think it was a movie that was inevitable and important to see for myself and others.

This movie and all this discussion is only about a certain area, a certain species that is rogue from others. The alien population of our world is filled with benevolent and spiritually aligned beings that have compassion and shield us from such shock and horror.

These are only a certain group. But they have been many places through ours and past times. So, they are not all aliens. Not by a long shot.

There are aliens from other worlds, times, dimensions even, and we know of almost 80 in the publicly accessible record through people like Clifford Stone.

This movie is not telling us all aliens are like this. But, it is a good movie to see what some bad ones are like, and it is important we not be ignorant of them.

I did not like the movie for a movie. I liked the information I got from watching it, how they presented it, and what we observed in all the people in the theater afterward.

My wife and I sat there in amazement. I liked the movie for that. But it was not entertainment value. I did not go there to be scared, but was scared for reasons to complex to explain.

I know and love Bud Hopkins, and agree with what he said, but I also see his subjective context and can also have a different opinion. He was right, and wrong, but not for any conventional polarity. There is a bigger picture. Bigger than any one of us, expert or not, and he is as expert as you get.

I think anyone who wants to see it should. Those who don't should not.

I am glad I saw it. I am still looking deeper into the details, but so far I've found nothing substantial in the way of outright lies. Could be there however. It would not surprise me. It's Hollywood money that made this. Not church donations.

Remember, this is not a movie about all aliens and encounters any more than a documentary about Charles Manson is about the whole human race.

Yet, in watching a movie about Charles Manson, we can see how dark the human condition can get. So, after that, go watch a movie about Gandhi.

The movie is important to see for those who want the whole picture. if there is ANY lies or deliberate fakery, distortion for dramatic or sensationalism, these producers will be torn apart by the public.

We'll weigh all that as it happens, but for now this is an interesting film for anyone serious about understanding this area of reality we are facing as a species.

ZG



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:25 PM
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Allow me to explain to you what is going on, since you have a right to know.



Originally posted by Sol12
...

The Fourth Kind: Beware of "abduction" prop/agenda.

...


Well it is propaganda. Agenda? Hard to say, really. It is more to the point, propaganda. Giving aliens a bad name, so we would stay away from them and stop trying to have sex with them. No that last part I was kidding, slightly. Truly they just don't want us to interact with them out of fear that our democratic societies will elect them into office taking away the power those powerful people ones currently have.



Hypnosis is NOT Science.


Well it can be science if applied correctly. Every tool or device is subject to error and any half-minded intellectual can fabricate any result to his or her own liking. Take the Cloning fraud in South korea.



This movie is bad science fiction and bad history, with an agenda.

Agenda: Fear, Ridicule (and 'entertainment').


Well fear to drive us away from the aliens. And ridiculing the aliens because they post a threat, not to us mind you. But to those who currently have power over our society, like the oil companies and the Health Insurance industry.



The information of Mack, Hopkins, Strieber et al, is obtained
by using an outdated, hence, controversial and invalid method of Science:


Well all scientific methods of study are outdated if you consider how advance and how correct the aliens probably are in comparison to our own findings. We could easily be wrong about everything.



Under hypnosis people can get induced to believe
(they are) just about anything?


That is true. In fact that is how all this abduction stuff came up. People were led to believe what had happened to them, probably while being abducted, not by aliens, but by our governments. Most correctly, by the Night Stalkers, a black ops division in the United States military that has complete lack of oversight in what it can and cannot do. It could kill you wide awake in the middle of town with a million witnesses and get away with it.



Conclusion:

This movie, and the agenda behind it that is promoting it,
is another one of those saddening attempts to discredit the benevolent
visitors to Earth from the other Planets of our Solar System.

Agenda: Fear, Ridicule and 'Entertainment'.


Not just benevolent, but cute too in a very kinky way.



I am surprisingly good with pixel representations.



What the 'GOV' doesn't want you to know:

- Visiting ETs are not unidentified,
neither are many of their spaceships.

- We are not alone in our Solar System.

- Visiting extra-terrestrials are Humans.



Well I guess you can call these human



They are not hybrids by the way. That is what the Pleiadians actually look like when they don't have to mimic our skin composition to protect themselves from our extreme solar radiation. probably thanks to our deteriating Ozone layer.

THANKS AGAIN HALLIBURTON! AND YOU TOO "CLEAN" COAL!



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