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Health Care- Now(Passed)

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posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


To be honest Ahabstar I am out of the loop on all of this. I plan on studying up on this health care stuff and the cap n trade I don't much about either except that I know you gotta pay to offset your carbon footprint or something like that.

I try to stay on top of current topics but on these two things please feel free to put an "Epic Fail" label on me.

Catch up time today.




posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by KarlG
OK, tell you what.

Why don't all of you people who find fault with America and her politicians to either take a gun, shoot down EVERYONE on Capitol Hill, or maybe stage a violent protest, or MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY.


You know, you're the second socialist this week who has told me to leave my own country. No thanks, I'll pass. This is where I was born, this is where I'll die. Besides, I've already been "over there", fighting socialism curiously enough, in the hopes that I'd never have to fight it at home.

Looks like I lost, in the long run.

Just so you'll know, their brand of socialism isn't any better than yours, so I am disinclined to travel overmuch when the time comes to fight it again.

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees, and so I reckon I will. And I'll do it in MY country, not the foreign nation of YOUR choice, thanks.



Once you're in another country, you'll realize what an amazing place America is. Right now you're debating over whether or not you SHOULD have government-run healthcare when the government in question is noticeably one of the best in the world and one of the least corrupt?


You just don't get it, I guess. Forcing this money out of our pockets for their insurance scam IS corruption. No further evidence needed.



For all of you who are worrying you might be thrown in because you can't pay, NO. That's what's changed now. If you can't pay, the government will pay for you.


That's like, one of the defining factors of socialism, isn't it? Remind me again why you think it's a GOOD thing to be dependent on a corrupt government? I knew people who died trying to GET AWAY from that sort of nightmare. No, I think rather than running, and just dying tired, I'd rather die well rested. In my own country, my home.



You should be worrying about your karma, and this should really do some goodwill in your place.


To hell with "karma". I'd rather be free.



Unbelievable. Really unbelievable.


Agreed. I never thought I'd live long enough to see this day in America.



My happiness and enthusiasm for this passed bill has been sunk because I came onto ATS to hear more of what people would think... and it turns out, not in a good way.


If your disappointed by the little old reaction HERE, just get used to it. This sort dissatisfaction at being sold out by the political machine is EVERYWHERE in America. It may not be organized well enough, but I'll bet you've not yet seen the STRONGEST reaction that's coming to this.

If they don't wise up, and frankly I've seen no signs of it out of DC, Hell is coming, and he'll be riding a red horse.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


You're right. If this becomes law there will be Civil War in America. No doubt about it. It has been a long time coming imo and this will be the final straw.

The American People simply can't take any more of this without breaking.

Revolt. Kick out every single government figure and start over.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by SharkBait
 


i'm sure of the fact that i would lose the court battle..but winning that battle isnt the point, the point is to make the attention for it. get the view point out there that this is WRONG. you CANNOT force me to take a vaccine. you just plain can't. my human rights begin at the tip of my nose. as does my right to defend myself against any agent you attempt to put into my body. i would take it as an act of biological warfare against me. and respond as such.

fine, we dont get health care if we dont take the vaccine. i can accept that. i dont want to play by the rules of that system, so i dont get the benifits. but what about..i think its Jehovah's Witnesses, they don't allow vaccines? if so..i'm signing up so i have a legal loophole or maybe a less pushy religion.

the point is, if this passes thru the senate, we have problems and have to play by their rules even when revolting. the early stages will be fought within their system. we will lose then, but the point is to gain support.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by mkross1983
 


You know, Im not sure that has not been the plan all along. If there was a guideline you could follow to lead this country into a revolution, the current govt is following it as fast as it can. I think they want that to happen.

I do not think they planned for us to be smart enough to have an organized side set up. They are attempting to strong arm us making us feel like we do not have a choice. Perhaps they have lost faith in Americans.

I have not.

If this passes, then every man/woman will have their entire lump sum pay unless they decide to work for big corp. They will be able to decide what to do with their money. To pay or not to pay? They can not make this thing work with out OUR money PERIOD. They can not cut their own checcks without OUR money. What do you think will happen when each person has to make that decision themselves? Its one thing to have it taken out of your paycheck. Its another to have to cut the check yourself.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:38 AM
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In America, freedom and liberty was once worth dying for.
Now a Federal tax on just living life is halfway to passing into law. I doubt the Dems will have much trouble getting the votes in the Senate.
I never thought I would live to see the day that we would have to pay a tax on simply EXISTING.


We will be taxed on exhaling carbon emissions later in 2010 when the ridiculous cap and trade bill passes taking more freedoms away from Americans. Troubling times ahead. The 2010 elections will be interesting to say the least.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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And on and on it goes.We have representatives that don't represent and health care plan in the works that puts you in jail if you don't participat,how good is all this?

So much for town hall meetings and Tea Parties,the so called message that was supposed to sent with Vergina and New Jersy.So what now people,we have employees that have told the people they represent to take a hike so who does the House of Representaves represent if not the people of there respective state?Oh,they also have better health care then the people because they want nothing to do with there on creation.

Again you have 20% of the country telling 80% how its going to be,no majority rule anymore,what does that make the U.S.?I don't think it could be any more clear......but thats just me.

Hey Canada,does your politicians have the same health care you do or do they cosider themselfves to be better then there employers like our government here in the good old U.S.? Just curious.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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Thanks to ATS for giving me the forum to vent on this issue. I appreciate any responses and/or advice that you folks could give me.

To start, I am one of those who do not have any health insurance. Beyond that, I also do not have a job as I am one of the millions of America who have lost their jobs. That being said, I guess that I am one of the individuals who will end up having their health insurance paid for by you, the workers of the USA.

Yet, to take this a few steps forward, I do not want you to pay for my health insurance because, frankly, I don't want any health insurance that my government is trying to "force" me to acquire. To all of the people responding on this forum who think that this new health bill is all a good thing, I urge you to please read more deeply. This, in my opinion, is the final stone in the governments attempt to curtail true freedom in America.

In fact, I believe that this is a covert act of terrorism by the Government of the United States of America upon the People of America. Before anyone labels me as a Right-winger, understand that I am a true Lefty.

The Government of the USA has effectively declared War against the people, those people who will no longer have the "CHOICE" to decide whether or not they want to obtain insurance upon their own health. This amounts to not only a new tax, but a declaration of War. It's amazing that the party who stood strongly for "CHOICE", proves itself against exactly that in this bill.

I do not condone violence, nor do I recommend that anyone commits violence upon others, but as a Peace Lover who has seen an increasingly out of control government declare war upon Her people, I predict violence will come, and soon. It is very easy to gauge the temperature of the atmosphere, and people are ready to explode. I predict that the government of the USA will be the target.

That being said, I hope that it does not come to that.

Peace and Love should always be the First path...



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by mkross1983
Revolt. Kick out every single government figure and start over.



You can not revolt or kick anyone out the government unless there is something set up to take its place.

Another side HAS to be established.

Polititians may be the enemy right now, but Politics are a necessity.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by KarlG

Your so-called freedom is to be selfish, to be full of ill-will, to be violently stuck to your ways of "everyone live for himself, and care not for others".

To me, I see no statement. I see the passing of a law that allows me NOT to be selfish anymore. To watch as people around the country who have problems HAVE their problems ALLEVIATED.


You need a government to force you to help others? And then decide for you WHICH others to help? That truly IS sad.



The government is not telling you WHAT to buy, it's just telling you to buy insurance. And if you can't, you get federal subsidies to help you get it.


That sir, is incorrect. The government is telling me to buy INSURANCE. That is a "WHAT".



Insurance is NOT a bad thing, especially when I can pay for it at long last.

Why? Because healthcare is a merit good. Economically, healthcare is a social good that works for the benefit of the general society.


Insurance is a scam. I carried insurance for YEARS, paid a lot of money for it over that time, too. When it came time that I needed it, I couldn't afford to USE it. Ergo, the insurance company took all my money, then got to keep it to.

Now the government wants to scam me too, by force. If I do that, it's called "strong armed robbery", and I go to prison. If the government does it, it's called business as usual.



You want to buy insurance from Company A, B, C or the government? Take your pick.

You want to have meatloaf, burgers, General Tso's chicken, or pad thai for dinner? Take your pick.


My pick is none of the above. How 'bout that? Oh, right, the government intends to relieve me of that pesky "freedom" thing.



When it comes to issues like healthcare, I'd rather HAVE it, and be able to PAY for it, than not have it, and flounder like a fish when I've got a massive injury or illness, and be mad at my government for letting me be "free".

Like I said before, wait until one day, something massively devastating hits you or your family. I'm not cursing you, please don't be mistaken, but you won't know how important this law is until you experience the consequences of not having it.


Been there, done that, checked it off, got the t-shirt. I tell you right now, I fear the result s of dependence on "insurance" MUCH more. I'll take care of my own health, thank you.

Well, that is until a government bullet finally relieves me of that responsibility.



Right now you're not seeing the TANGIBLE good it can do, but only the damage to your values and detriments to your beliefs, blah blah...


There is no good it can do. None. Lots of damage, economically and psychologically to the entire nation, though. You've heard of the concept of a "national psyche", right?

Beyond that, damaging a person's values and beliefs Is one of the most insidious forms of tyranny there is. It kills their soul, and leaves the corpse walking.

By your own admission above, that's EXACTLY what is happening to America right now, ALREADY.

I truly doubt that the US survives this.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by mrsdudara

Originally posted by mkross1983
Revolt. Kick out every single government figure and start over.



You can not revolt or kick anyone out the government unless there is something set up to take its place.

Another side HAS to be established.

Polititians may be the enemy right now, but Politics are a necessity.


How about we let Ron Paul lead our side?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Battleline

Hey Canada,does your politicians have the same health care you do or do they cosider themselfves to be better then there employers like our government here in the good old U.S.? Just curious.


I'm not an expert on what the politicians do for health care. I believe they are supposed to get the same care as everyone else, but I can't say for sure. There have been threads on Canadian health care vs. U.S., so you could do a search for one of those. Recently, sports teams have been jumping the queue to get vaccinated. That made the news here. I think citizens are pretty outspoken when they see that power or prestige gets you quicker care. (I find Canadian health care is good, so far. But Canada wasn't deep in debt when they undertook their plan, and they didn't have illegals flooding across their border, getting health care without paying).



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Enjoy your freedoms while they last.

When their laws kick in they will move in to take your freedom away, your money, tell you how to live and ultimately how to die.

God Bless Big Government.





Texas Holdem is a great game don't you think?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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What if the Swine Flu scare is to get more people complacent with accepting this Health Care bill? Is that a possible scenario?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by mkross1983
 


i was pretty convinced it IS the scenario...

am i alone?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:29 AM
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From some of the responses I am seeing from partisan-politic-players on the "left" there seems to be, to some degree, a misunderstanding regarding what this bill is about.

If this bill passes Americans will not be able to have a medical procedure and never see a bill like in some countries like Sweden (correct me if I am wrong here Swedes). They pay their taxes but never see a bill. Their taxes cover the whole cost of care.

With this legislation in the US you will still have a "plan" either private or fed.gov's. You will still pay co-pays, have deductibles, get bills, pay for prescriptions (with pharma having 12 year copyrights instead of 4 - ouch...etc.
:dn
, and other costs.

This just put fed.gov as the master-overlord controlling the whole thing.

The fed's have our best interests at heart right?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by KarlG

Your so-called freedom is to be selfish, to be full of ill-will, to be violently stuck to your ways of "everyone live for himself, and care not for others".

To me, I see no statement. I see the passing of a law that allows me NOT to be selfish anymore. To watch as people around the country who have problems HAVE their problems ALLEVIATED.


To watch as about 28% of this country who already have personal income from government handouts get even more is not to have problems alleviated but is to create an even bigger problem.

You and people like you are crippling society by enabling them to be useless.

There are a small percentage of this country that need and deserve to be helped but most of the parasites in this country do so by choice and have no right to take money from hard working contributors to society in exchange for votes.

It may be legal to be an intentional leech on society but it is not right.

As far as being selfish, you are supporting the most selfish abuse of power imaginable. You don't learn to not be selfish by having your livelihood stolen by thieves.

You learn to be selfless by giving to and taking care of others by your own free will.

You, by your own admission aren't capable of not being selfish.

It seems you are the one who is truly selfish. You cannot see the true fault or will not acknowledge it but you will steal from others to assauge your own greed and guilt.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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I agree that there are problems with our health care and health insurance (note the separation of the two, because they are two different problems). But, I contend there are no more problems than anywhere else in the world and far less than some. And, I know, this bill, in excess of 2,000 pages, is not the solution.

The question I pose now is why, exactly, are you Europeans so concerned with the United States of America having socialized health care? In attempt to finally muzzle the elitist Americans and confused Europeans, I submit the following:


1998 - 2008 10,466,605 persons obtaining legal permanent resident status

2000 - 2008 1,315,537 Europeans obtaining legal permanent resident status


Source: www.dhs.gov...

So, if the United States of America is so horrible and you have such a great desire to make us more "European", why are so many of you moving here? If it is so wonderfully Utopian there, why flee?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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If you are looking for conspiracy and corruption, look at how much the AARP will be benefactors of this reform bill... The lobbyists rule. Bought and paid for.



Call the bet or fold?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by WTFover
 


nice point...but i think you should start another thread about this.
its a very helpful thought, and would probably help clean up a bit of the fighting on the boards...as far as american in house issues...we should just be getting helpful tips..not emotional responses from people that are not directly effected by this. maybe talk to your lawmakers and get them to intervene on that level. but sitting here and saying we are wrong or whatever doesnt help. please stop...

but WTFover i suggest starting a thread on this.



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