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Health Care- Now(Passed)

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posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Libertygal

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I hope the "Liberals/Progressives/Democrats" enjoy their "Socialized Medicine" which they claimed will never be Socialized, and we would never be forced to do anything...

The goal of Socialism has ALWAYS been about taking the free will, and free choice of people, and turning EVERYONE into mindless robot slaves.




You show your ignorance of simple matters...



Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.


Hardly mindless robot slaves... efficient? A good idea? What we should do? All subjective questions... but mindless robot slaves? Objectively no.


So there you have it ladies and gentleman. The beginning of "So? What's wrong with socialism?"

Mark this day on your calendars.

edit for spelling

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Libertygal]


What an absolute complete misrepresentation of what I said.


Can you even READ? DID YOU EVEN READ?

ElectricUniverse claimed the goal of Socialism has always been to create a bunch of brainwashed robots.

I showed evidence that his/her assertion was completely incorrect.

At no time did I EVER ASK OR IMPLY ANYTHING BENIGN ABOUT SOCIALISM!

Jesus Christ! Learn how to read for comprehension...





posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:42 AM
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Well is anybody happy that pre existing conditions and roster purging is being curtailed?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by Libertygal
It limits our freedom because they are FORCING us to buy insurance. In your country, you just get taxed. We will be both taxed AND have to buy an insurance plan. If we fail to buy the insurance plan, we get fined. If we fail to pay the fine, we go to PRISON. Do you go to prison over healthcare there?


No, we dont go to prison over healthcare.
Its all included in our taxes.

Im not sure why they are forcing people to buy insurance when they could have made it a tax?

If what you are saying is true, it sounds very oppressive and wrong. Much better to just include it in the taxes like we have over here. Otherwise you will have people who cant pay this and they will end up in jail. I realize jails are a big industry in the USA and very profitable to run, so maybe thats why they made it this way?


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Copernicus]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by Janky Red
Well is anybody happy that pre existing conditions and roster purging is being curtailed?



I am!




posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:50 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by Janky Red
Well is anybody happy that pre existing conditions and roster purging are being curtailed?



I am!



Me too -

That is a good thing

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Janky Red]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by wx4caster
yeah, i am selfish. 9 years serving the country, 26 months deployed away from my family and friends. i agree that if people genuinely need help because they are physically incapable of providing for themselves, then we help them.

but if you are satisfied with working a mundane job with no insurance and minimum pay, while you save no money, then you deserve to reap what you sow. why the hell should i go to school and work long hours making hard earned cash just to put it back into the system so that you can afford health care?

you dont make enough? go make more. you cant find a job? go to school, there are already tons of government programs available to get you into school. get a better job. work harder. play less.

these are the basic principals of life.





No, those are the basic principals of American society today. Not life. Life is something completely different.
Where I live, the minimum wage is something you can live on. You dont need to take several jobs just so you can pay your bills. Everybody are free to study at any university if they get good enough grades, and if they dont, there are schools where they can redo the classes they failed and get better grades. All this is free of charge (except paying for the books).


You see, in the US, minimum wage jobs are really meant to be for kids in high school that get work release programs, or maybe part time jobs for college kids who want some extra income. Or maybe part time jobs for the elderly who wish to supplement their Social Security. People here are not MEANT to live off minimum wage jobs.

HOWEVER, people are forced to live off minimum wage jobs, because they CHOOSE this. They choose to drop out of high school, because they want to join gangs, are lazy, or any other number of reasons. They make the choices, you see, it is not forced upon them. It is not lack of opportunity, it is lack of WILL.

We expect people to graduate high school, go to college. Even if you cannot afford to go to college, just graduating high school can get you a job above minimum wage.

People here can make it too, they just don't think they should HAVE to. This is the difference people from other countries fail to see. It is laziness, and a willingness to ride on someone elses back. The government is only partially to blame for alllowing illegals to steal our jobs, but thats in another post.

They are also to blame to for allowing people neverending welfare. There is no reason to get off welfare. The more babies you have, the bigger the check gets. They can get their hair and nails done, sell some drugs and get the caddillacs and SUVs and cellphones, but they can't pay a medical bill. See, a lot of the people screaming they can't pay their bills are simply choosing that they do not HAVE to. Now, I did not say all, so do not misquote me here.



So you see that is a society where everyone CAN make it in reality, and not just theory like in the USA. If you get born into poverty in the USA, its almost impossible to make it (but a few do, I know, and you use those as examples despite them being more like lotto winners).


Tha is a lie. If you are born into poverty in the US you have the exact same chances as anyone else to make it out. You get free school, all you have to do is finish the 12th grade. But you see, since we have enlisted a lifelong entitlement program in the US, people think it is just fine to sit in government subsidized housing and live off the taxpayers. They are not forced to do anything different, why should they? They have ZERO motivation. You are just making the same excuses they are.



The downside is that almost nobody is extremely rich over here since people who make a lot of money do pay more taxes. But you dont have anyone being really poor either. So you see, people are pretty much equals here. We dont have gated communities with guards to distance ourselves from the poor people like you do.


People here pay more taxes when they make more too. What exactly do you call rich? Because, I bet we have really different ideas on that. Are you rich if you bring home 50,000 a year? 75,000? !00,000?



So, being inside this system, I like it. Its a better moral system that includes all people. Your government are crooks because they live in the system you enjoy. They step on people and get rich and powerful. How come this is wrong in a country where the system encourages it? You cant blame them for "succeeding".


No, thats a misnomer. They do not live in the system we enjoy, thats the problem. They live totally outside of it and are oblivious to it, hence why they continue to heap these absurd laws on us without have a clue how this is going to impatc the people of this country.

They do step on the people, I will not deny this, because the taxes we pay pay for their private jets. Only some of the people encourage this, by saying, "That's ok!" to laws like this. Do you think the people writing these laws won't get some kind of kickback? They are lining their pockets while lining the pockets of their friends, and lobbyists, all for the mighty vote to stay in the office that keeps giving them the private jets! That is NOT OK!



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by Libertygal
It limits our freedom because they are FORCING us to buy insurance. In your country, you just get taxed. We will be both taxed AND have to buy an insurance plan. If we fail to buy the insurance plan, we get fined. If we fail to pay the fine, we go to PRISON. Do you go to prison over healthcare there?


No, we dont go to prison over healthcare.
Its all included in our taxes.

Im not sure why they are forcing people to buy insurance when they could have made it a tax?

If what you are saying is true, it sounds very oppressive and wrong. Much better to just include it in the taxes like we have over here. Otherwise you will have people who cant pay this and they will end up in jail. I realize jails are a big industry in the USA and very profitable to run, so maybe thats why they made it this way?


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Copernicus]


You see they made it both a tax AND a requirement to buy the plan. You are starting to catch on!

Only the people that live below the poverty level will get it for free. That's why all this nonsense about "Public Health Care" is a lie!

Of course, you will also have the people who refuse to buy it. That's a whole other story.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
.................
I showed evidence that his/her assertion was completely incorrect.

At no time did I EVER ASK OR IMPLY ANYTHING BENIGN ABOUT SOCIALISM!

Jesus Christ! Learn how to read for comprehension...



The only thing you showed is that Democrats/Progressives/Socialists/Communists are good at hiding the truth....

In Socialism/Communism THE STATE owns everything, and the STATE makes decisions for you like the Democrats/Progressive/Socialist/Communist in power are showing....

BTW, yes you better learn "reading comprehension" because it is obvious you don't have it...

When the STATE owns everything, and when the STATE claims it should be making decisions for the people on things that PEOPLE, as individuals should have a right to choose, this is a system that does at least try very hard to make simple minded robots.
But I can see why you would love such a system.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 03:59 AM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


I stand by what I said.

I did not say you were the ATS socialist leader, I simply pointed out what I see is the first step in saying, "So? What's wrong with socialism?"

Are you going to be the first to utter it?

That remains to be seen.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by Libertygal

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by wx4caster
yeah, i am selfish. 9 years serving the country, 26 months deployed away from my family and friends. i agree that if people genuinely need help because they are physically incapable of providing for themselves, then we help them.

but if you are satisfied with working a mundane job with no insurance and minimum pay, while you save no money, then you deserve to reap what you sow. why the hell should i go to school and work long hours making hard earned cash just to put it back into the system so that you can afford health care?

you dont make enough? go make more. you cant find a job? go to school, there are already tons of government programs available to get you into school. get a better job. work harder. play less.

these are the basic principals of life.





No, those are the basic principals of American society today. Not life. Life is something completely different.
Where I live, the minimum wage is something you can live on. You dont need to take several jobs just so you can pay your bills. Everybody are free to study at any university if they get good enough grades, and if they dont, there are schools where they can redo the classes they failed and get better grades. All this is free of charge (except paying for the books).


You see, in the US, minimum wage jobs are really meant to be for kids in high school that get work release programs, or maybe part time jobs for college kids who want some extra income. Or maybe part time jobs for the elderly who wish to supplement their Social Security. People here are not MEANT to live off minimum wage jobs.

HOWEVER, people are forced to live off minimum wage jobs, because they CHOOSE this. They choose to drop out of high school, because they want to join gangs, are lazy, or any other number of reasons. They make the choices, you see, it is not forced upon them. It is not lack of opportunity, it is lack of WILL.



Come on now,,, a mother of three is going CHOOSE to work at Sonics so she can choose to live in a rat trap.

Surprise!!!! Many people try to live off minimum wage and do their best to survive.
You belittle people for WORKING and then you equate their WORKING with laziness


Sounds like an elite belittling the help

"Jankins, make sure you run over the gardener on the way out, we do not care for
people who make so much and work so little."



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by Libertygal

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by wx4caster
yeah, i am selfish. 9 years serving the country, 26 months deployed away from my family and friends. i agree that if people genuinely need help because they are physically incapable of providing for themselves, then we help them.

but if you are satisfied with working a mundane job with no insurance and minimum pay, while you save no money, then you deserve to reap what you sow. why the hell should i go to school and work long hours making hard earned cash just to put it back into the system so that you can afford health care?

you dont make enough? go make more. you cant find a job? go to school, there are already tons of government programs available to get you into school. get a better job. work harder. play less.

these are the basic principals of life.





No, those are the basic principals of American society today. Not life. Life is something completely different.
Where I live, the minimum wage is something you can live on. You dont need to take several jobs just so you can pay your bills. Everybody are free to study at any university if they get good enough grades, and if they dont, there are schools where they can redo the classes they failed and get better grades. All this is free of charge (except paying for the books).


You see, in the US, minimum wage jobs are really meant to be for kids in high school that get work release programs, or maybe part time jobs for college kids who want some extra income. Or maybe part time jobs for the elderly who wish to supplement their Social Security. People here are not MEANT to live off minimum wage jobs.

HOWEVER, people are forced to live off minimum wage jobs, because they CHOOSE this. They choose to drop out of high school, because they want to join gangs, are lazy, or any other number of reasons. They make the choices, you see, it is not forced upon them. It is not lack of opportunity, it is lack of WILL.



Come on now,,, a mother of three is going CHOOSE to work at Sonics so she can choose to live in a rat trap.

Surprise!!!! Many people try to live off minimum wage and do their best to survive.
You belittle people for WORKING and then you equate their WORKING with laziness


Sounds like an elite belittling the help

"Jankins, make sure you run over the gardener on the way out, we do not care for
people who make so much and work so little."


I do not belittle people for working. I may belittle them for making poor choices, but without specifics on this "mother of 3", I surely cannot respond to it than other to say she may have:

1. Gotten pregnant before she finished school, therefor a higher paying job is out of her reach and payscale

2. Chose the wrong person to get pregnant with, and otherwise if she has the education, her working at Sonic's is her choice.

There are lots of government programs that will send her back to school. She has options, so quit blaming me for her plight.

Elitist? No, not an ounce.

I was poor.

I was homeless.

I dropped out of school.

I was 15 living in the streets.

I changed my life.

I made the CHOICE to do something instead of wallowing in my own misery and expecting everyone to pay for it. I went without, I never once used the government welfare system.

I got my education. I paid for it myself.

I got a job.

I got a house, 2 kids a cat and a dog and a couple cars. It *is* doable. I only blame people for making bad choices and not being willing to fight for themselves.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 04:27 AM
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think of the long term effects!

in legislation when something that has never been seen before becomes law it sets a precidence.

if americans stand idly by and let this bill get passed, it doesnt matter if you think it is good or not, it sends a clear precident message to our governing body that they can draft a long and life changing bill, get it approved wthout reading it despite the populace wanting it, and the end result will be a bunch of moaning and complaining followed by complacency.

as far as the bill itself all i gotta say is:

1.2 TRILLION dollars.

you add that to the 800+ billion that we have already spent and then think about what we could really have done with that money!

2 trillion dollars, thats 2000000000000 dollars

you could buy 16 million houes at 125 thousand dollars. you could give every single american citizen 6500 dollars. every single man woman and child...

the average house hold is a man and wife and 3 kids... that is 32500 dollars to every single house hold!!

or give every single american mortgage owner 46000 dollars...

our childrens children will be paying the interest on this.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by wx4caster
 


Better yet they could have bought and paid for insurance policies for all those without, and paid the rest back to the taxpayers they stole it from.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Libertygal]
spelling >< I'm tired

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Libertygal]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by Libertygal

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by Libertygal

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by wx4caster


You see, in the US, minimum wage jobs are really meant to be for kids in high school that get work release programs, or maybe part time jobs for college kids who want some extra income. Or maybe part time jobs for the elderly who wish to supplement their Social Security. People here are not MEANT to live off minimum wage jobs.

HOWEVER, people are forced to live off minimum wage jobs, because they CHOOSE this. They choose to drop out of high school, because they want to join gangs, are lazy, or any other number of reasons. They make the choices, you see, it is not forced upon them. It is not lack of opportunity, it is lack of WILL.




I do not belittle people for working. I may belittle them for making poor choices, but without specifics on this "mother of 3", I surely cannot respond to it than other to say she may have:

1. Gotten pregnant before she finished school, therefor a higher paying job is out of her reach and payscale

2. Chose the wrong person to get pregnant with, and otherwise if she has the education, her working at Sonic's is her choice.

There are lots of government programs that will send her back to school. She has options, so quit blaming me for her plight.

Elitist? No, not an ounce.

I was poor.

I was homeless.

I dropped out of school.

I was 15 living in the streets.

I changed my life.

I made the CHOICE to do something instead of wallowing in my own misery and expecting everyone to pay for it. I went without, I never once used the government welfare system.

I got my education. I paid for it myself.

I got a job.

I got a house, 2 kids a cat and a dog and a couple cars. It *is* doable. I only blame people for making bad choices and not being willing to fight for themselves.


Well I am glad you pulled yourself together...

Not everyone is you



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


that is exactly what i am talking about.

you are an inspiration to us all. the path to success and comfortable living is there for us in america, even if it is not an easy path to trod.

kudos



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by wx4caster
 


Better yet they could have bought and paid for insurance policies for all those without, and paid the rest back to the taxpayers they stole it from.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Libertygal]
spelling >< I'm tired

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Libertygal]


yep, they could buy 111,111,111 insurance policies for one year at 1500 dollars a month. most polocies are only 300-500 a month. so triple that. that is a year of insurance for every man woman and child in america....


sickening.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by Libertygal
 


Are you out of your mind? Or just out of touch with reality. Maybe you don't want to believe that someone with a degree couldn't find work. Well guess what, its happening all around you. Many people are only a tfault for getting a degree in a dying industry.
As for welfare, the laws changed in 1997. any child born while on aid is not eligible, that means you can not have more children to get more money. There is also a 5 year limit for aid. Please check your facts be for making assumptions.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by calstorm
reply to post by Libertygal
 


Are you out of your mind? Or just out of touch with reality. Maybe you don't want to believe that someone with a degree couldn't find work. Well guess what, its happening all around you. Many people are only a tfault for getting a degree in a dying industry.



NO kidding! Because we are spending ourselves into oblivion and keep finding ways to spend more,and chasing more and more businesses OUT of busniness!

Don't you think the money should go to jobs, instead of everything BUT? I never said it wasn't getting harder. This is the hopey changey people wanted. How is that working for ya? It wasn't like this before. It's only going to get worse.

There are however, still jobs out there. People like to be picky. I knew a Computer Analyst that went for a year without a job because he was demanding over 100k a year. As soon as he dropped his income requirements, he got flooded with offers, and is now employed. He may not be happy about it, but his unemployment benefits were about to run out. I know, 75k a year is awful!

If there is not a job out there that people want, you have to take what you can get, and I promise, if you have a degree, you can get a job doing *something* besides flipping burgers. Sorry, but I just won't buy into this. Not yet, at least.

Give Obama a few more months, maybe. We can chat then!



As for welfare, the laws changed in 1997. any child born while on aid is not eligible, that means you can not have more children to get more money. There is also a 5 year limit for aid. Please check your facts be for making assumptions.


Heh. You are either lying intentionlly, or YOU are minsinformed. Welfare Reform signed into law by Clinton was repealed and gutted by Obama with the first stimulus bill. Wassa matter? Didn't read the bill?


The End of the End of Welfare as We Know It [NRO Staff]

Stephen Spruiell highlights a new Robert Rector study on Obama welfare spending. He begins:

Obama started increasing welfare spending immediately after assuming office. The stimulus bill included $220 billion in new means-tested spending, including a little-noticed provision that repealed one of the key welfare reforms of the Clinton era. The 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act capped welfare dollars to states, ending the perverse system that rewarded states for adding cases to their welfare rolls. The 2009 stimulus bill lifted the caps. Once again, states that add to their rolls qualify for more cash.

President Clinton said his legislation would “end welfare as we know it.” If Rector’s estimates are correct, Obama will spend twice as much on welfare as Clinton did. He is off to an incredible start. His $88.2 billion increase in welfare spending in 2009 is twice as large as any other increase in history. By the end of next year, he will have increased welfare spending by $263 billion, which is two and a half times greater than any previous increase.

For um Link

It was Obama's plan all along, to end welfare reform. He never liked it when Clinton signed it into law. Watch this video:

www.infowars.net...


The stimulus package will gut welfare reform even more than previously feared. That’s the conclusion of Mickey Kaus, a moderate Democrat who now appears to regret voting for Obama. The stimulus package will reward states that promote welfare dependency, even more than federal subsidies did before the 1996 welfare reform law, and reduce economic growth.


www.openmarket.org...

Lie number two. Children are eligible, they call it WIC.
www.fns.usda.gov...

Lie number 3. there are no limits for aid, as long as you can prove an ongoing hardship.

No limits here.

dfcs.dhr.georgia.gov...

Nothing here either:

dhr.georgia.gov...

You can apologize for your rudeness now.

No need to apologize for being wrong, though, the bill was *huge*. /s



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
www.washingtonpost.com...


That link is awesome. I only wish I could download all of it including the linked bio's for some hardcore analysis offline.


Bill Owens (D-N.Y.) and John Garamendi (D-Calif.) were elected Nov. 3, 2009

These are the two Representatives that received no contributions from the Health Industry.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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I woke up this morning and flipped on the news and my jaw dropped. A five vote margin is nothing to brag about. All I can say at this point is that the pitch fork is sharp and at the ready in my shed. If this makes it through the Senate we will have one hell of a Holiday Season on our hands.

Votes were clearly bought and backs were scratched in this game of back room politics.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by jibeho]



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