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Health Care- Now(Passed)

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posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:31 AM
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Alright alright alright
I agree $_$

This bill is fantastic. $_$


All you have to do is pay a small fee...close to 15,000$
NO wait..you have options..don't worry about that..just pay an extra fee on your annual taxes...

NO wait..don't worry..you don't have to pay either of those.

You'll just be fined...
1/4 million dollars and up to 5 years in jail. $_$

We love you America $_$

you know what though..that's fine....5 years in jail..250,000$ fine..pfft. That's nothing. I can do good with 5 years of my life taken away. I just won't drop the soap.


I
DO
NOT
STAND
FOR
THIS
AT
ALL

THIS
IS
NOT
FINE!




This world has some scary truths. It's time we stop talking about it and actually do something...

Time to stop priveledges...and time to start RIGHTS.

Rights can't be taken away...


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Triple_helixxx]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by Triple_helixxx]




posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by Triple_helixxx
 


So its about you not wanting to pay for others? Is that it?

You talk about your rights but what about your responsibilities as a human being?



[edit on 8-11-2009 by Copernicus]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by KarlG
 


I think "our" was refering all Americans, even you from that which it so distant you don't comprehend yet.

Look, I see where you are coming from, it's a Noble thing to want everyone being taken care of and not cause harm. I would love to see those that are unfortuanate have HC insurance but not at the peril of my expense and freedoms. You seem well versed on the selling points, now take a look at the negative implications and weigh them out. Like I said in a previous post not only will they take your insurance choice freedom away they will start in with smoking, drinking, overweight, do you own a gun, etc...Sorry, can't just some here and talk about the good things be prepared to back up those bad things also.

Phil



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by KarlG
You, Copernicus, can probably understand my happiness and joy when this law was passed, having lived in Europe and Asian countries before.


Absolutely. This is one thing I think all humans on the planet should have. How can we live in societies together if we dont want to be there for each other?

Isnt it ironic how Americans fight across the sea for democracy to help people but up until this point has not helped the millions of poor people within their own borders? This is one law that will help those people. Finally.


Okay, I'm American, so let's not bash my own country too much.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by KarlG
 


The only people being ignorant are those like yourself...

I lwas born and experienced true Socialism/Communism which is more in line with what has been shoved down our throats...

I also lived in Europe, mostly Spain for 9 years, and I know that healthcare in Europe has more problems than the one we used to have, but the one that which Democras/Progressives are passing is even worse...

This is NOT going to be any good, and people like you LOVE to swallow in ignorance every day apparently, even when president Obama himself has stated what he wants for healthcare...

Again do tell us how is it going to be good when the STATE/government will be deciding whether patients, and including elder Americans can get treatments, operations or whether they should continue to "take the pill" because according to Obama care "it is not economically viable and mostly elder Americans are dying anyways so why spend money on operations and treatments?....

That is what OBAMA himself has stated on video, but people like you keep ignoring this sort of fact...

Not to mention that the Obama administration, and president Obama himself were caught making deals with Big Pharma, and part of that deal is that Obama will stop Congress from trying to lower the price of prescriptions....

We have had SEVERAL threads regarding this, but we get the Obama fans who continue to ignore the FACTS, and EVIDENCE and still claim the "la la land fairy tales" they keep spouting is the truth....


[edit on 8-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by Philalethes
 


Im posting like crazy in this thread, but I need answers....

How is a country supposed to provide health care for everybody without using taxes? It doesnt seem possible. People without money will not have health care unless the government takes care of it. Unless Im missing something?

And how does this limit your freedom? I mean, Ive seen hundreds of laws passed in the name of fighting terrorism that totally rips your freedoms to shreds. There is nothing left. This law doesnt seem to make a big difference to me?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:38 AM
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We were born on Earth.

We don't need to use our fake dollar bills to live here...

Earth is not a priveledge...

Though..such a tough thing to comprehend, it is appropriate to assume that man is still primitive.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by KarlG

I'm PROUD of my country! I am American, and I am proud of where America is right now, progressive and strong. She may have tripped and stumbled over the past few years under flawed leadership which you may think was good, but she got right back up and now is back to glory in terms of giving her people the best! Is that a bad thing now, to be patriotic?

And one quick question: Who is "our"?



You are PROUD? That everything this country was built upon has been thrown away in one vote? I want you to remember that... Because today was anything but a day to be proud of!

Regarding your question... The "our" is all Americans... I cannot live under socialism... Right now I am twisted with Anger... The only reason I am not out protesting like mad right now is I am going to wait and see what the Senate does...
If a state becomes to socialist I can move... when the federal government becomes too socialist there are only three options for people who cannot/WILL NOT live under socialism...

1)Fight and kill all who support this attempted socialist take over... and that would mean all who found what congress did today as a proud moment...
2) demand our own country.

lastly 3)... protest non stop every single day... day in and day out... allowing the anger to build on both sides until the only option left is option one or two...

Right now I pray the Senate stops this madness! And then we can all sit down and try to find a private capitalist solution to this problem... I am prepared to DIE so I do not live under socialism...

Now I have a question for you and all who think socialized/government controlled/FORCED healthcare is the right direction for our Country... Are you prepared to kill in order to get what you want? Because you might want to plan for it... because tens of millions of Americans are not going to bend... we are going to protest and its going to last for a very long time... and when the anger reaches the level you can still be proud of, make sure you're proud enough to pull the trigger...

BTW we aren't Europe... We are Americans specifically because we don't ever want to be Europe!

--Charles Marcello



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by KarlG
Okay, I'm American, so let's not bash my own country too much.


Im not against America in any way, but you have things like Statue of Liberty and speak about freedoms and such, which is awesome, but when it comes down to showing whats behind the surface, the country doesnt take care of all its people. Im not bashing the country, but the governments so far has not done much for its people so im bashing them.


Its a country where they say everybody can succeed, but only 1% of the people really does. Succeeding is equal to getting rich. Its the very definition. While in other countries, succeeding may be more about living a good life with your family without being super rich. I think money is more worshiped in America than anywhere else.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Copernicus]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by KarlG
 





when this law was passed,


Hey Karl.... Don't you mean "bill passed by the house", it's not "law" until the Senate passes and obama signs.

Thought i'd make clear......




posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Philalethes
reply to post by KarlG
 


I think "our" was refering all Americans, even you from that which it so distant you don't comprehend yet.

Look, I see where you are coming from, it's a Noble thing to want everyone being taken care of and not cause harm. I would love to see those that are unfortuanate have HC insurance but not at the peril of my expense and freedoms. You seem well versed on the selling points, now take a look at the negative implications and weigh them out. Like I said in a previous post not only will they take your insurance choice freedom away they will start in with smoking, drinking, overweight, do you own a gun, etc...Sorry, can't just some here and talk about the good things be prepared to back up those bad things also.

Phil


Well, I guess this is the point where I see the difference between our personalities. Having INDEED been more "denial of ignorance" (adjective form), you are jaded, and certain that they will take away our rights to drink, smoke, and be overweight, and not own a gun.

With regards to gun ownership, I'm skeptical, 2nd amendment and all.

With regards to the rest, how can the government take that away? Being overweight, drinking and smoking, is everything a person IS. These are lifestyle choices, like choosing to be swinging single, and having the ability to smack talk someone on the court. Or choosing to party till the wee hours of the night.

It's different from healthcare, where it's not a lifestyle choice, but a protection, shall we say, from the evils of fate and fortune.

You never know what might happen. Call me paranoid (and I'll call you carefree, lol), but I truly WAS afraid of what might happen if I get cancer, and can't pay for it.

*knocks on wood, rap rap*

I want to live. Sorry for being a douche, HotSauce, but I actually WANT TO CONTINUE LIVING, and not dying young.

So when it comes right down to it, I want the healthcare. But I can't pay for it. It's expensive. And what if those company d**ks decide because my family has some undiagnosed cancer gene that no one knew up until me, I'm not eligible for ANY insurance of ANY kind across the board?

Thankfully, these companies can't weasel out anymore. And if I can't afford, I get grants. This isn't a case of the government telling me, "YOU HAVE TO QUIT DRINKING! YOU HAVE TO EAT BREAD FOR DINNER!"

If they start doing that, trust me, I'm the first one on the frontlines to fight them.

But in this case, the benefits are clearly greater than the PERCEIVED costs.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Are you sure you're not Sarah Palin in disguise?



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:47 AM
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Most of you make good arguing points for both sides of the discussion. Honestly, I really don't know where I stand on the issue at the moment, because I'm still researching so I can make an honestly informed decision based on what I know, instead of what other people are claiming to know.

One thing that I have always felt was "unconstitutional" are the extremely high prices of medical care. While some of it may be justified, like the heart doctor that saved your life via a quadruple bypass, there are thousands of other items that are over priced. A combination of just a few of these items in a single visit to the Dr. could drive your bill up drasticly.

Take for example .. The price of an MRI scan, just the actual scan itself, can be upwards of $5,000. Then you have to tack on the additional fees of your Dr. and the "advising Dr." and it's even higher.

My question is ... WHY should an MRI scan be so ridiculously expensive when the work being performed is done by a machine? Same question for X-rays, CT Scans, etc.

I understand the fact that certain Dr.'s specilaize in certain areas that are outside of the norm for routine Dr.'s, and as such, their experience and knowledge should be properly compensated with higher prices.

The MRI machine takes a picture. It's up to the Dr. to analyze the data collected and to make his decisions based on his knowledge and the knowledge of others.

I think that if our government could step in and regulate the cost of medical coverage and the cost of medical care, then the normal everyday American would be able to properly afford it.

And then we have a problem with a lot of Dr.'s charging the insurance companies unrealistic prices for their services. I'll give you an example ..
I had no insurance, went to dentist to have a tooth pulled: $133 cash.
I had dental & medical coverage thru Aetna, went to the dentist to have a tooth pulled and they told me that I would have to pay $518 out of pocket. That was my cost, AFTER the insurance company had paid been charged.

This is the same dentist on both occasions and there were little differences to the situations in question.

I was charged $6.00 on a hospital bill because a nurse brought me a Coke that would have cost me 50 cents from the machine.

It's outrageous overbilling and practices like these that have driven up the cost of both medical care and medical coverage. These atrocities need to be stopped and regulations put in to place.

From what I have read so far, this new bill will help curtail such charges which would in turn help drive the price of care down. If the care is cheaper, then the coverage will be cheaper as a result. So this is something that I support with this new bill.

What I do not like and do not agree with is the fact that illegal immigrants will be given the same free healthcare, but will be exempt from taxation penalties.

There are other issues that I support and do not support as well, which is why I am still undecided.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by KarlG
OK, tell you what.

Why don't all of you people who find fault with America and her politicians to either take a gun, shoot down EVERYONE on Capitol Hill, or maybe stage a violent protest, or MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY. Or maybe, as Empire puts it, exchange all money in your government-prying-so-they-can-take-your-money-to-fund-alien-exchange-programs bank accounts for tangibles so you can live under a rock in Australia... Uluru, maybe?
...................


Ok, tell you what...why don't you, and all other Americans, including politicians, NWO Socialist elites in power, etc go move to a country where "supposedly" there is completely free national/SOCIALIST healthcare, as in Cuba, and LEAVE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AS THE FOREFATHERS OF THIS NATION FOUNDED THE REPUBLIC?.....

Instead of wanting to transform the REPUBLIC into another SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIP, move to one of the DOZENS of SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIPS that already exist....


I got SEVERAL family members living in Cuba who will be MORE THAN HAPPY to trade with you their "libretas" which is how food is rationed in Cuba, and you can have ALL of the SOCIALIZED healthcare you want also....


If you want to trade places with them they will be more than happy to....



[edit on 8-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


That is true. Elder people dont get the same help as younger people in my country (Sweden). So I think that is a valid argument.

But if the alternative is the US system where millions of people dont even have health care, no matter how hold they are, I prefer our system anyway.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by KarlG
Okay, I'm American, so let's not bash my own country too much.


Im not against America in any way, but you have things like Statue of Liberty and speak about freedoms and such, which is awesome, but when it comes down to showing whats behind the surface, the country doesnt take care of all its people. Im not bashing the country, but the governments so far has not done much for its people so im bashing them.


Its a country where they say everybody can succeed, but only 1% of the people really does. Succeeding is equal to getting rich. Its the very definition. While in other countries, succeeding may be more about living a good life with your family without being super rich. I think money is more worshiped in America than anywhere else.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by Copernicus]


It is. HELLO, CAPITALISM.

Which is why I'm on ATS in the first place, lol.


But what can I do? My medical bills aren't going to be paid in amount of knowledge I've gleamed from my collection of Shakespearean tragedies.

They're paid in $ $ $. I don't have $ $ $.

Bah.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by KarlG
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Are you sure you're not Sarah Palin in disguise?


Are you sure you are not Karl Marx in disguise?...

You know, you calling yourself KarlG could be KarlM....


[edit on 8-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
Most of you make good arguing points for both sides of the discussion. Honestly, I really don't know where I stand on the issue at the moment, because I'm still researching so I can make an honestly informed decision based on what I know, instead of what other people are claiming to know.

One thing that I have always felt was "unconstitutional" are the extremely high prices of medical care. While some of it may be justified, like the heart doctor that saved your life via a quadruple bypass, there are thousands of other items that are over priced. A combination of just a few of these items in a single visit to the Dr. could drive your bill up drasticly.

Take for example .. The price of an MRI scan, just the actual scan itself, can be upwards of $5,000. Then you have to tack on the additional fees of your Dr. and the "advising Dr." and it's even higher.

My question is ... WHY should an MRI scan be so ridiculously expensive when the work being performed is done by a machine? Same question for X-rays, CT Scans, etc.

I understand the fact that certain Dr.'s specilaize in certain areas that are outside of the norm for routine Dr.'s, and as such, their experience and knowledge should be properly compensated with higher prices.

The MRI machine takes a picture. It's up to the Dr. to analyze the data collected and to make his decisions based on his knowledge and the knowledge of others.

I think that if our government could step in and regulate the cost of medical coverage and the cost of medical care, then the normal everyday American would be able to properly afford it.

And then we have a problem with a lot of Dr.'s charging the insurance companies unrealistic prices for their services. I'll give you an example ..
I had no insurance, went to dentist to have a tooth pulled: $133 cash.
I had dental & medical coverage thru Aetna, went to the dentist to have a tooth pulled and they told me that I would have to pay $518 out of pocket. That was my cost, AFTER the insurance company had paid been charged.

This is the same dentist on both occasions and there were little differences to the situations in question.

I was charged $6.00 on a hospital bill because a nurse brought me a Coke that would have cost me 50 cents from the machine.

It's outrageous overbilling and practices like these that have driven up the cost of both medical care and medical coverage. These atrocities need to be stopped and regulations put in to place.

From what I have read so far, this new bill will help curtail such charges which would in turn help drive the price of care down. If the care is cheaper, then the coverage will be cheaper as a result. So this is something that I support with this new bill.

What I do not like and do not agree with is the fact that illegal immigrants will be given the same free healthcare, but will be exempt from taxation penalties.

There are other issues that I support and do not support as well, which is why I am still undecided.


Yes. Your examples with the dentist and the Coke are exactly what I'm saying.

I feel for you, man, because I know how it goes.

And this bill is a GOOD thing.

I do not like the illegal immigrnts part of the bill either, so I hope something can be done about it. If they get the benefits, they gotta pay for 'em too, in everyday NORMAL taxes.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by KarlG
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Are you sure you're not Sarah Palin in disguise?


Are you sure you are not Karl Marx in disguise?...

You know, you calling yourself KarlG could be KarlM....


[edit on 8-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



Omg, that totally put a smile on my face.

No I'm not Karl Marx, I'm really Fidel Castro pretending to be Asian-American. And as for you, young lady, better watch those daughters of yours. You never know if hockey's the only sport they love.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by Detailed Perfection
.................
One thing that I have always felt was "unconstitutional" are the extremely high prices of medical care. While some of it may be justified, like the heart doctor that saved your life via a quadruple bypass, there are thousands of other items that are over priced. A combination of just a few of these items in a single visit to the Dr. could drive your bill up drasticly.

Take for example .. The price of an MRI scan, just the actual scan itself, can be upwards of $5,000. Then you have to tack on the additional fees of your Dr. and the "advising Dr." and it's even higher.
...................


Yes, there are problems with the cost of healthcare, but Obama care is not the awnser.

For all we know these very high prices for certain health related issues being chosen by those in power with the money, did so just so that the Socialist elitst plan to convert the Republic of the United States into another Socialist nation could be accomplished....

After all the elitists are the multimillionares, billionares who are Socialists and want a One World Socialist Dictatorship...

[edit on 8-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]




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