Hello ATS!

This thread comes out of a conversation I had last night at dinner with my daughter and my son. She is in her first year of university and he is just begun high school and they wanted more information on how they world worked.

Now my daughter, being older is much more aware of things than my son is. He is only coming into the age where we wants to know about world affairs and things that affect humanity.

Needless to say I have tried to keep the conspiracy talk to a minimum in our house for the sake of having them do their own research. The conversation revolved around the government and how things weren't quite right.

My son has had his belief structure of the PTB shaken a bit with this whole swine flu fiasco as well as all of the supposed "disclosure" coming along the way. He's an amateur astronomer and comes on here every now and then to see if there's any news and of course he's been drawn in. But let me get to the point.

My daughter gave me of all people a lecture on how the generation before her were too complacent. I attempted to tell her that this situation arose over many generations with the systematic and slow dismantling of our rights and honest politics.

She gave me this quote, which I think is a very good observation.

" Just cause the government is screwing you over a little bit at a time, does not mean they are screwing you any less"

I asked her to elaborate further. She asked me if my generation had noticed things weren't quite right when I was her age. I said yes. She then asked me what I did about it.

Being a bit of a smart ass I told her I raised my kids so they could do the work for me, of course they didn't like that too much. But she does have a really valid point.

Why are we so complacent? How could they be so successfull in doing all of these things, right in front of our eyes. We are not any less intelligent than 50 years ago, I would say we are more so.

We are not less capable as a people than 50 years ago, again I would say we are more so due to sheer numbers alone. What can one do to overcome complacency and what avenues do we have to bring about change that "we the people" can believe in, and not our government.

This is an open discussion about what makes us this way and the way to move forward and leave this problematic behaviour behind.

~Keeper

Most people are happy with the system. Most people are not that smart.

Im amazed every time I listen to my coworkers... they are really living in a bubble. They truly believe there is nothing wrong with the world, and they talk about the vaccinations against the swine flu like there is nothing strange about it. They have been told by the media to get vaccinated so they just do it. No questions asked. No pondering about the reasons.

I get the feeling that most people are programmed to just conform and they arent questioning it because they havent realised they are living in the matrix yet. There is still trust in them. They believe there is no larger objective at play and that world events are random. They dont think its strange that every change in the world is suddenly motivated by the fear of terrorism. Like its something new.

Its as interesting as its scary.



[edit on 7-11-2009 by Copernicus]

I think we are held hostage by our circumstance. Mostly here in the u.s. where I live, we're doing quite well, we have food and shelter every day. WE have many amenities, and we like it this way.

To truly buck the system we'll first have to let go of these things that bind us. The greatest revolutionary is one who has nothing to lose. At that point a person can go all out and push themselves till they achieve their goal, or die trying.

When we consider our things we've accumulated as having a monetary value, we assign them a power. They cannot be let go without a loss because we perceive them as having a value. So the value and power we assign them takes precedence in our actions.

In essence many of us think we have too much to lose.

We're complacent because the benefits we think we get from the status quo outweigh the costs we're aware of paying. If that balance ever changes, then things will change, people will become less complacent, and there may be an upheaval.

But as long as most of us are doing kind of OK, most of the time, we're not going to risk making things get worse.

In ancient Rome, the aristocracy gave the people "bread and circuses". They fed the masses and entertained them, and thus were able to control them. Nothing much has changed since then. A full belly and a TV set is enough to keep most of us from doing anything to make changes happen.

Young people are quick to point out the failures they see in the generations that came before them. I know I sure did that. Those young people who wanted to change the world, back in the 1960's? They are in charge now. And what do we have? More of the same ole same ole.

My 14 year old granddaughter said to me, "Man, you guys really fu&%ed things up!" Heh. And I said, "Yep, it was fu&%ed up when I got here, it's fu&%ed now and it will be fu&%ed when I am long gone. I wish you luck in changing it all for the better."

My family still believes the television shows us all the truth we need to know. I can't get into " conspiracy kind of discussions " with them, because they couldn't even understand what I mean.
Anyway, they are full of doubts about the risks of taking the flu vaccine. I warned them all times about this and they would sometimes agree with me, but I think they are still not very convinced.

I give my opinion, I just don't watch television anymore. I just watch movies on it. I think there are other ways to get the " real news ".
For example, Internet is the real future. Television is already going to die.

Originally posted by kyred
Young people are quick to point out the failures they see in the generations that came before them. I know I sure did that. Those young people who wanted to change the world, back in the 1960's? They are in charge now. And what do we have? More of the same ole same ole.

I remember stopping at a gas station in North Carolina in the 50s and seeing six restrooms labelled "White Men", "White Women", "Colored Men", "Colored Women", "Indian Men" and "Indian Women". Unless you have a clear understanding how much civil rights has changed it is too easy to claim the world is not perfect therefore nothing has changed.

It is always easy to see problems needing fixes but you have to also remember how much has improved. Two thousand years ago Jesus said, "You will always have the poor" John 12:8 meaning there will always be work to be done - that does not mean nothing has been done.

Speaking out against corruption should count for something, even if you only do it on ATS. At least I don't think it would be better to automatically resort to violence or anything like that.

If my future kids asked me the same question, I could tell them I at least practiced civil disobedience. The federal government doesn't bother me so much here as much as the local government, sometimes enforcing bank policies or federal laws or whatever the case may be. I refuse to pay bills I disagree with. I've had my license suspended for refusing to pay bills to the bank for "overdraft fees" that were completely ridiculous and hardly my fault, for checks not "going through the system" or other similar total bull.

I've then been pulled over and charged for driving without a license since my license was suspended for refusing to pay bills/fines. Guess what? I didn't go to court for those, either. I had 2 charges of driving w/o license in two counties and I didn't go to either of them. One of the courts just fined me once again in my absence, which once again is not a high priority for me to pay off, not really on my mind at all actually, and the other county picked me up and ran me through the magistrate and let me go with another case for "failure to appear" in January. Still debating how I should best handle this one.


Before anyone says, "What good is that?", let me say this. There are TONS of people doing exactly what I am doing right now. The end result on the court system is that they can't keep doing this, they don't have the resources to prosecute everyone to the full extent that they might otherwise prosecute. They used to do worse for people doing what I am doing and have done. Only just a few years ago, they probably would have already put me in jail for a couple of days for so adamantly refusing to cooperate with their policies and even telling them in court to their faces that I have no means of paying them and what they are give me is going to be to no effect at best, to everyone's (including the court's) disadvantage at worst (and more likely scenario -- because again, they just don't have the resources to handle all these cases). Especially since the economy has taken a turn, the courts have been swamped with cases for people owing money, not paying money, not being ABLE to pay money.


Also in these same interactions with my local authorities, judges, lawyers, magistrates, police officers, I make it a point to do the last thing they expect (which is to cooperate respectfully but also hold your rightful ground) and really make them think about what THEY are personally doing. I don't act like a victim. I don't act like something "wrong" has been done to me, and certainly don't try to blame THEM for my problems. Because they always say they have no control over the laws anyway, that they just enforce them (which is total bull and I know it, but whatever). So I don't take that route. I do exactly what I am "supposed to" by their own mentalities, which I know well enough. The police officers I deal with always end up being very nice to me and doing the most they can to help me in court, once even not showing up at all so I got completely out of a charge. Because, again, I do not make myself out to be a victim, I simply allow them to see that I am behaving and doing everything "correctly," and yet things STILL tend to roll downhill for me in court (and then it is hard for them to ignore the hardships they themselves are putting so many people through). That is, until they do their own parts to correct the system on their end, to make things not so bad on me, a real victim of an awful system of "justice." And seeing things like that gives me a greater sense of satisfaction than having any bill paid off. Because bills can be paid forever and you are just giving them power. Refuse to pay, something has got to give somewhere.



Anyway, the specifics of all this stuff is complicated to get into but the bottom line is I throw myself in front of a legal train and allow it to run me over repeatedly for the sake of others. And there are so many people doing this, intentionally or not, that IT'S WORKING. Thus the benefit to you all, even if you have to get in trouble yourself before you can see it. There are so many people "in trouble" for such trivial and petty, ridiculous "crimes," that the legal system is just about broke. They do what they can to keep their heads above water and tug the status quo for the most part, and that's about all they are able to do from what all I have seen, at least in my hometown.


I also like the "graffiti artist" route, though I'm no artist and it's not really my thing. I love going out and seeing beautiful and uplifting graffiti or messages painted in public places for all to see. That's really sending a message in my book. Even the people who scoff, it makes an impression on them that they will remember when others mention it.

[edit on 7-11-2009 by bsbray11]

I don't know if I should be optimist about future generations. I think past generations are dragging the youngers in the same trap they fell in.