The US Healthcare System ... it's sick, sick, sick, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 7 times

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 03:15 PM by Philalethes

reply to post by Wotan

Really? I can legally carry a gun. Don't see that freedom in Europe!

Phil

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 03:16 PM by conspiracyrus

reply to post by Philalethes

good point! im amazed at all the people who do not live in the us how they are sooo worried about our situation... i think its a load of crap

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 03:17 PM by Philalethes

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

Whoa, the freedom here is that if the insurance doen't want to pay then it's up to you if you feel that you still need the care. Under the UHC would you still have that freedom?

Phil

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 03:27 PM by Wotan

Originally posted by Philalethes
reply to post by Wotan

Really? I can legally carry a gun. Don't see that freedom in Europe!

Phil

Ah! The Gun thing that gets you all such a hard-on.

As a matter of fact, gun ownership in most European countries is alive and well ...... we just have to go through more hoops to get one. We also do not see gun ownership as a freedom, there is very little gun culture in Europe. Guns are not a big deal in Europe, so it means little to us.

As for the detractors saying about that I am from outside the US so i cannot comment ........... shove it! No wonder some of you are so ignorant if you do not listen to what others have to say. This is an international forum.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 03:29 PM by conspiracyrus

reply to post by Wotan

An international forum but a thread on american matters...

Aww and i thought you were so certain i was scaremongering , decided to skirt my request for a debunk? oh well ...At least we know where you stand ... uninformed

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 03:42 PM by centurion1211

Originally posted by Seiko
I couldn't possibly think of a way to defend this.

That said I'm not sure the current bill would in anyway alleviate this problem. The over-billing will still happen, and the utter obtuse behaviour of the hospital in question will most likely continue.

Have to go along with you on that one.

I keep trying to point out that no healthcare reform is better than a bad healthcare reform bill.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 03:55 PM by gimme_some_truth

Yeah it was a horrible move and it shows just what they think of the people they are treating. All they see is money. That is a HUGE problem

That said, The hospital has since apologized and sent the bill to the insurance company instead.... Now I wonder what the insurance company will pull to get away with paying as little as possible....

It is a truly crazy world.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 04:11 PM by Philalethes

Originally posted by Wotan

Originally posted by Philalethes
reply to post by Wotan

Really? I can legally carry a gun. Don't see that freedom in Europe!

Phil

Ah! The Gun thing that gets you all such a hard-on.

We also do not see gun ownership as a freedom, there is very little gun culture in Europe. Guns are not a big deal in Europe, so it means little to us.

Sir, yes you are a free country. We just have a few more freedoms here in America and our gun RIGHTs are on the top of the list. It's not a hard-on it's a FREEDOM and a RIGHT! You don't see it as a freedom because it has been taken from you.
The intentions of a RIGHT to own guns are two fold...
1. An instant Army. No country in this world is going to walk into American and try to take it. Refer to Chinese statement on a 100M man Army...
2. To take down our Gov't if ever needed. Refer to Constitution and Gov't no represting their people...

So, back to the OP's post and back on subject...

If Europe like their NHCS then great! We are used to a different system and we like it. What our Gov't has yet to discover is that requiring everyone to purchase HC is against our contitution. See Guns rights above...

Case in point. My Mom had a stent put in here in the U.S. and the next month against all of our recommendations she went on her scheduled trip to Italy. Her stent blocked and she entered a hospital in Italy. They medically took great care of her and re-did the stent.

Here's the rub...Her boyfriend had to procure all her meals, bring toiletries and she was in an open ward with no privacy. Not big deal to you maybe but to us it's not what we are used to. While in a hospital here in the U.S they provide the correct meals for a cardiac patient and ensure proper nutrition education. They also don't expose patients to other patients illnesses with an open ward type setting.

BTW the Italian Gov't payed the bill.

My company currently pays my blue cross health ins bill (part of my salary which I work for) for a family of 4 and its about 12.5k per year. I'm sure there is better but I consirder it a cadillac plan. I went into the hospital last May and received awesome care. All my meals and needs were provided for and had a private room. Now, why would I want to give that up and pay 15k to loose my privacy and provide my own food and basic needs while there.

Can I ask if you have ever experienced the health care system in America? If so, please describe your American HC experience and relate it to your British HC experience.

Phil

Edit quote

[edit on 7-11-2009 by Philalethes]

[edit on 7-11-2009 by Philalethes]

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 04:28 PM by Wotan

No I cannot relate to the American Health System as I have never used it. I can only go by what others say. The same as most Americans here about other countries healthcare systems.

As for the UK's NHS, I can say a lot about it. I am a Nurse that works within it as well as being a payer and user of it.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 04:37 PM by Ulala

reply to post by Philalethes

Strep throat in Florida 2 yrs ago. Penicillin. $429. Bargain (not).

My Mum ? Stomach cancer. 7 long hard years of treatment until her death. Never once on a ward on more than 4 women, frequently in a room on her own (specialist cancer unit). The food ? Dire. The staff ? Angels on Earth. The treatment ? The usual, colostomy/chemo/radiotherapy. Not easy for her, hard on the family too.

But free at the point of use. No bills to worry about. Ever. She even got full pay from her employer for the first 3 yrs despite being absent, thereafter she got Severe Disablement Allowance & Disability Living Allowance to make up her wages.

Glad your Mom got the right treatment in Italy. Lack of privacy ? I'd have thought the social interaction/distraction actually aided recovery rather than set her back. The Italian Govt paid for it ? Don't have much to gripe about then, do you ?

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 04:55 PM by HotSauce

reply to post by Ulala

Strep throat in Florida 2 yrs ago. Penicillin. $429. Bargain (not).

Well you did get screwed, but it was your own fault. Unless you had the worst case of strep throat ever then your doctor gave you the most expenseive penicllin on earth. You have to take control and tell the doctor you want something generic and affordable. Then you could have gotten your prescription filled for $4 at Wal-Mart.

Doctors are notorious for prescribing the most expensive meds. My quess is they get kick backs from drug makers, but I have yet to find proof.

[edit on 7-11-2009 by HotSauce]

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 04:59 PM by Philalethes

reply to post by Ulala

Sure, I'm not complaining about her medical bill. She was quite appreciative of Italy's hospitality but why did the Italians have to pay her medical costs because of her stupidity for traveling against advisement.

I am saying that if you read my post...In comparison of my treatment to hers and what our gov't wants to charge us, I don't want to pay more for NHCS and get less.

Our system is not perfect and could be better but don't nationalize it. Instead let insurance companies compete across state lines and institute tort reform.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 05:18 PM by charlie0

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

I really don't understand why some Americans don't get it. Why would Insurance Companies spend 7 Million a day to defeat the Obama health Plan. It is because they know the Golden goose will disappear. All they have to do is to watch Seiko and then get on line ask questions from people in Britain, France, Germany. Ask them if they like their health system. Don't just follow the propaganda that the big businesses in USA is trying to manipulate you. Some of the tests that I went in England in 4 hours all for free, the same tests took me one year in USA. Do you think you can get the treatment this way by spreading the tests for a year. I had the best Insurance in USA where as in England I was one in the crowd.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 05:32 PM by HotSauce

reply to post by charlie0

So you are saying you wouldn't fight to save your business if the government tried to attack and demonize it? I would fight with all I have. Even the Democratic politicians admit that a Public Option is just the first step to Single Payer. Single Payer = destruction of the health insurance industry, hence why they are fighting in a live or death fashion.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 05:36 PM by Ulala

reply to post by HotSauce

I didn't pay it ; my insurance did. So who got screwed ?

Fellow policyholders, that's who.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 05:38 PM by HotSauce

reply to post by Ulala

And right there is the problem with sheilding the individual from the actual cost of their care to the point where they do not care what it costs because the government or someone else will take care of it. This is one of the main reasons coverage is so expensive.

[edit on 7-11-2009 by HotSauce]

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 05:51 PM by CoffinFeeder

ya know, there should be a certain recourse in situations like this.

You see, here' smy take on things.. if you died while under a doctors/hospitals/etc care.. the bill is theirs to eat.

In this world, if I order a pizza and I get it with no cheese on it, guess what, I'm not paying for the damn pizza. If someone is building me a house and its not the right house, guess what, I'm not paying for it.

why should a doctor be any different? hey, if you couldn't save the person's life, or fix their problem, guess what, you ain't getting paid, and guess what else.. the executors of his estate aren't paying either.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 06:04 PM by sligtlyskeptical

Originally posted by Philalethes
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

Whoa, the freedom here is that if the insurance doen't want to pay then it's up to you if you feel that you still need the care. Under the UHC would you still have that freedom?

Phil

So let me get this right, the rallying call so far is that you will not get good care under a public plan. Now you are worried about being able to decline care? Do you really have any idea what you are talking about or are you against public healthcare just to be against it? Seems to be the rule these days. Folks cutting off their arm to spite their hand.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 06:06 PM by HotSauce

reply to post by CoffinFeeder

Point well taken.. But what this would create is no doctor would take care of you if they didn't think you had a 75% chance of living after they were done.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 06:11 PM by sligtlyskeptical

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Wotan

The facts are in logic same amount of healthcare workers, more patients = longer wait.. if its scaremongering debunk it

and with more people using the service the more money needing to be put towards the system.

The birth rate is higher than the death rate in the US so every second there are more patients meaning every second their will be an increasing amount of money to spend on healthcare... what you think theyll just poof and make money appear... no it will come from you and I.

oh wait you wont have to pay a cent becuase your not a citizen so um dont debate here...

Oh yeah and currently i pay nothing for health insurance as i dont need nor can i afford it

[edit on 7-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]

Duh. Thats what the upfront money is for. To expand the number of providers. It's not like the states can't use some more high paying jobs.

Since you cannot afford healthcare do you plan on sponging off the rest of us when you do need it? Or are you ok with your care pushing you into bankruptcy?

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