Why Muslim Maj Nader Hasan yelled Allhu Akbar, page 6
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 23 times


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 06:18 PM by smurfy
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
I agree with what you say, although i'm not sure if there are evolutionary differences between the Muslim, Jewish, and Christian sects.
In any case regards this thread, technically this man was not following the Qur'an. He is no different than all those mass killers we see repeatedly who are nearly always described as having some peculiarity against his fellow man. What was the main cause will be forever debated.
Mostlyspoons has it wrong,

www.islam-watch.org...

This is from a site which is not particularly pro-Musilim.

[edit on 7-11-2009 by smurfy]


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 06:36 PM by rapunzel222
Originally posted by mostlyspoons
reply to post by rapunzel222


Actually do some research... Buddhist societies are among the most sexist around... The monks are allowed to rape and have their way with the lower class girls... at least in the more corrupt areas. But thats neither here nor there...

"Christians" have probably done the most harm to the world overall, however the difference between that and a Muslim killing non-believers for Allah is that the Muslim is OBEYING a murderous religious doctrine, where as the christians were DISOBEYING God and Jesus by commiting their acts of violence. Christianity, going only by the bible, preaches tolerance for other's beliefs, where as the quran commands to kill non-believers!



[edit on 7-11-2009 by mostlyspoons]


oh, well, thats okay. im not really surprised about the buddhist monks as i dont trust any organized religious structures. But the idea of not harming fellow creatures is a good one - one of the better religions i think.

christianity, well - again, nice idea, if anyone ever followed it. Unfortunately in the history of the world, no one has; and this relgion has caused more strife than most. horrific things done in its name.

To me however, the muslim religion is one of the worst in regards to its treatment of women/girls and also in regards to voilence against others. Altho christianity is just about equal in regards to violence it has caused - or possibly more. Crusades, burnings at stake and so on.

None of them are any good. steer clear of them all. use your own conscience and common sense. live by the principles of xty and buddhism but dont joint the sect?

why do you need a power structure to talk to god anyway?

whatever god is - it is all around and part of all of us.

you dont need some priest or book to tell you how to access it.

isnt that common sense?

and i still think my comments about why the hell god is handing out virgins to people anyway, are pretty apt.



reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 06:59 PM by SassyCat
Every major religion is polluted with violence and propaganda, some more some less subtle but still polluted with propaganda. For example Sufism comes from Islam and it is definitely the most peaceful religion as it is not politically influenced and thus not polluted.

The Holy Roman Empire which pretty much exists to this day is a historical enemy of middle east and everything it represents for various reasons (god certainly not being one of them). War between middle east and Europe (Romans) is therefore very old, with religion exploited to get more troops and raise morale.
It's actually simple, before we had TV and Internet - we had holy books. The best way to spread propaganda was to put it in the most widely spread and most popular book there is. Just like today's TV - everybody has one.

As far as US goes, I will only say there's more than enough infidels to kill in middle east and especially eastern Europe, no need to travel overseas. The reason for violence on US soil has nothing to do with religion, but then again there's always guns with lunatics around them.

As for doing thins in name of god: you Christians say "oh my god" and "Jesus" for just about anything anywhere any time. You say it in different forms and languages no matter the reason. For instance things like "may god have mercy on your [pathetic] soul", "god help you all", "rot in hell", "accept the light of our lord", "may god forgive you for I can't" etc etc. would be appropriate in mass murder occasions. Not that you pay attention or attach any meaning to it - it's almost said mechanically.

Here's what Gandhi had to say about major religions (taken from Wikipedia):

Gandhi believed that at the core of every religion was truth and love (compassion, nonviolence and the Golden Rule). He also questioned what he saw as hypocrisy, malpractices, and dogma in all religions, including his own [Hinduism], and he was a tireless advocate for social reform in religion. Some of his comments on various religions are:

Thus if I could not accept Christianity either as a perfect, or the greatest religion, neither was I then convinced of Hinduism being such. Hindu defects were pressingly visible to me. If untouchability could be a part of Hinduism, it could but be a rotten part or an excrescence. I could not understand the raison d'être of a multitude of sects and castes. What was the meaning of saying that the Vedas were the inspired Word of God? If they were inspired, why not also the Bible and the Koran? As Christian friends were endeavouring to convert me, so were Muslim friends. Abdullah Seth had kept on inducing me to study Islam, and of course he had always something to say regarding its beauty.


The sayings of Muhammad are a treasure of wisdom, not only for Muslims but for all of mankind.


As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be religious. There is no such thing as religion over-riding morality. Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side.


I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.

Later in his life when he was asked whether he was a Hindu, he replied:

Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew.


So, to summarize all this - religion is most likely not the sole cause of all the corruption we face today.

[edit on 7-11-2009 by SassyCat]


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 07:01 PM by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Violater1


"I just finished reading the Koran" you say?



Dude. Skimming anti-islam websites does not mean that you've read the Koran.

What next, quotations of Surah 9:11?



reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 07:01 PM by Sed Non Credo
Originally posted by john124
The OP is entitled to his opinion that Islam incites hatred and violence. Anyone else who disagrees, muslim or otherwise, are also entitled to state that they don't think islam incites hatred. The vast majority of muslims are fairly peaceful people wishing to have a happy existence, much like the majority of westerners.

I think it does incite hatred to some extent, more so than other religions, yet it also requires more than islamic texts for someone to commit acts of crime or terrorism.

If anyone wrote a non-religious book that stated killing a particular group of people is necessary, and that this group of people were of a lower class and that you should despise them, then there would be no argument against anyone suggesting that it incited hatred.

People should never confuse racism or discrimination with healthy debate about a religion, and no religion should ever get a free ride.

I own a copy of the Qu'ran and no I haven't read all of it because in my opinion it's just garbage. I have however opened random pages and read those, and it is simply anger & hatred towards non-believers & especially Jews. Yes, some of the phrases state Allah will do the murdering, but this can be interpreted that believers can do this in his name.

I have no idea why anyone would want to read this book everyday, as it can only negative effects to somebody's psychology. If you are told to hate a group of people so many times, you might begin to. All Muslim's are also demonised in the same way, but we shouldn't fall into the same trap and hate all muslims either. But humans tend to have these emotional and illogical frailties, so this anger & hatred inevitably resonates between certain muslims and certain westerners making the original problem worse.


I was going to bite my bottom lip and stop myself posting within this thread, but after reading your post I just had to show my appreciation. Brilliantly put, and entirely honest seemingly.

It is a shame people capable of putting such free thought provoking decent honesty are so few and far between. Perhaps what I'm about to ask will be misinterpreted by some, but I must ask. May I ask if you are an Atheist?

Sorry it's such a short response, I don't want to risk going to war with either the PC crowd or the undeniably ignorant few.


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 07:02 PM by Bored To Tears
Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Violater1


"I just finished reading the Koran" you say?



Dude. Skimming anti-islam websites does not mean that you've read the Koran.

What next, quotations of Surah 9:11?


Prove he didn't read it.

Come on, you want to say he is lying then prove it.


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 07:07 PM by Fromabove
reply to post by SassyCat


I believe the OP was asking why it was that Nader Hasan yelled alla akbar as he was murdering innocent people... Stating perceived wrongs committed by other religions only takes away from the actual question.


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 07:13 PM by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Bored To Tears


Because rather than posting any sort of informed commentary about the book, he copy / pasts from a website that excises offensive and violent phrases from the Koran and presents them as the whole of the book. He even provides a link to it.

"So I just finished reading the Koran"... The Koran is one of those sort of works that you don't "just finish" just like the Bible isn't, just like War and peace isn't, just like the complete works of Shakespeare isn't. It's a damn big book, it's convoluted, and so complex that one can legitimately devote a career to studying its writing. His claim is there to lend false credence, to make the reader think he knows what he's talking about when he then copy/pastes from that website.

Now, I can't prove he didn't do something, because that's logically impossible. But I can say the standing evidence looks like he's just creating another Islam-bashing thread to rack up flags and stars


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 07:23 PM by einjager
reply to post by dooper


Well said! Bingo. I would also add that there is no such thing as moderate Muslims. No matter how hard they try to be western, Muslims will follow the attrocious Koranic writings above all else and all of them are waiting for the day--That day is the elimination of 'nonbelievers'.

Appeasement of a subversive occult,culture,Islam is the condoning/acceptance of your own eventual demise.

(Todd Scotts' post also great:
"Muhammed is dead, Christ is alive")


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 08:03 PM by Stormdancer777
Anwar al-Awlaki


Major Nidal Malik Hasan's imam

Could Yemen be the Next Surprise of the Season?

October 7, 2009 - الأربعاء 19 شوال 1430 by Anwar alAwlaki
Filed under Imam Anwar's Blog

117 Comments

The jihad movement around the world has witnessed a surprising growth during the past few years. After 9-11 America had succeeded in pulling together an international coalition in order to fight the mujahedeen. It invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, put pressure on governments around the world to throw anyone with association with Jihad behind bars and to stop the flow of money into Jihad movements. All over the world the mujahedeen have suffered an international effort under the leadership of America to bring an end to Jihad. But Eight years later the mujahedeen are wining on every front and are expanding into new ones. It appeared difficult back then to imagine that the world would be the way it is today just 8 years after 9-11.
That is because Rasulullah(saaws) said: “A group of my ummah will continue fighting in the path of Allah and they will not be harmed by those who are against them.”
The American people gave G.W. Bush unanimous backing to fight against the mujahedeen and gave him a blank check to spend as much as needed to fulfill that objective. The result? He failed, and he failed miserably. So if America failed to defeat the mujahedeen when it gave its president unlimited support, how can it win with Obama who is on a short leash? If America failed to win when it was at its pinnacle of economic strength, how can it win today with a recession – if not a depression- at hand?
The simple answer is: America cannot and will not win. The tables have turned and there is no rolling back of the worldwide Jihad movement. The ideas of Jihad are proliferating around the world, the mujahedeen movements are gaining strength and the battlefields are expanding with the mujahedeen introducing new fronts.
In Afghanistan the rural areas are mostly under the control of the Taliban and there is a steady improvement in the growth and strength of the mujahedeen. In Iraq even though the US claims an improvement in the security situation but one needs to ask the question at what cost is that achieved? The amount of money America is spending on Iraq with a recession at hand is unattainable.
The Jihad of this era started in Palestine, followed by Afghanistan, then Chechnya, then Iraq, then Somalia, then the Maghreb, and the new front might very well turn out to be Yemen.
And when this new front of Jihad starts in Yemen it might become the single most important front of Jihad in the world.
Why? First, the Arabian Peninsula has always been a land of mujahedeen even though there has been no fighting occurring on its soil. In Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, and Iraq the participation of mujahedeen from the Arabian Peninsula represented the largest block of foreign mujahedeen. When Jihad starts in the Arabian Peninsula, Jihad would be coming back to its home.
Second, he Arabian Peninsula is home to Makkah and Madinah. To free the Holy places from the rule of apostasy and tyranny is to free the heart of Islam.
Third, the rulers in the Arabian Peninsula are playing a central role in the fight against Islam especially the al Saud family. The al Saud of today are the Abdullah bin Ubay of yesterday. They have perfected the art of hypocrisy. They fight Islam in the name of Islam. They wear cloaks of sheep on hearts of wolfs. There cannot be Islamic rule and a return to khilafah without removing them from existence and this is the responsibility of the mujahedeen of the Arabian Peninsula.
America and its allies in the area are plotting against the mujahedeen, nevertheless their growth increases by the day. May Allah grant the true believers victory and grant them steadfastness on His path.
Their intention is to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will complete His light even thought the disbelievers may detest it. (al Saff 61)


www.anwar-alawlaki.com...

It is incredible that some of you are downplaying the gravity of this situation, you are putting us ALL in danger.


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 08:19 PM by Stormdancer777
The powerful online voice of jihad
www.thestar.com...

www.facebook.com...#/topic.php?uid=28000817427&topic=10840

The powerful online voice of jihad
Shadowy cleric revered by disenchanted Muslim youths throughout West cited in Toronto 18 case

He has this posted on his facebook,

PhD program at George Washington University.

During his time in the U.S. he was an imam at San Diego's Rabat mosque, a Muslim chaplain in Washington and an imam at the Dar Al Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Va. Following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the FBI interviewed Awlaki (also spelled Aulaqi) owing to his connections to two of the 9/11 hijackers.

"(Nawaf al) Hamzi and (Khalid al) Mihdhar reportedly respected Aulaqi as a religious figure and developed a close relationship with him," the 9/11 Commission Report concluded.

Investigators with the Congressional Joint Inquiry said meetings with Hamzi in San Diego and Virginia "may have not been coincidental," but said they were unable to learn enough about their relationship "to reach a conclusion."

In 2002, Awlaki moved to London. Two years later he was back in Yemen, where he lectured at a university run by Shaikh Abdul Majeed al Zindani, a controversial scholar who was allegedly Osama bin Laden's spiritual adviser and put on the U.S. terrorism watch list in 2004.

Awlaki was arrested and spent a short time in jail on unspecified terrorism accusations, but was released without charges. Since his release, his public views have become more radical.

"It's like the leash has been taken off," Kohlmann says.

In December, Awlaki addressed the militant Somali group al Shabaab in one of his blog entries. Al Shabaab has pledged allegiance to Al Qaeda and is listed as a terrorist group in both the U.S. and Canada.

"We are following your recent news and it fills our hearts with immense joy," Awlaki wrote to the group, which sanctions amputations for defectors and the stoning of criminals.

A reply claiming to be from al Shabaab thanks him and attacks the media's reporting of the rape and stoning death of Asho Duhulow, a 13-year-old Somali girl, by al Shabaab. "The reality and truth is that she was over 20 years old, married and practising adultery," the posting said in justification.

(A month before that entry, the Star reported on the stoning. It talked to witnesses who confirmed she was only 13.)

Kohlmann said he recently addressed U.S. Department of Justice officials in Washington to warn of Awlaki's growing ability to both incite attacks on Western soil and inspire youths to join jihad abroad.

Three of five men convicted this year of plotting an attack against U.S. soldiers in Fort Dix were allegedly inspired by his "Constants of Jihad" lecture, a court was told.

Six American youths from Minnesota's Somali community have been killed in Somalia after secretly travelling there to join al Shabaab.

They too had watched Awlaki's videos, their families reported.


[edit on 083030p://bSaturday2009 by Stormdancer777]


reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 08:40 PM by catamaran
This thread is exceedingly long. I hate these as others hate double topic posts. Probably a thread killer, and won't be read anyway, but:

I went to school in 1976 with an influx of middle east students from Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, et.al.. During those time, there were groups of disidents who were forming organizations against America and demonstrating. I still have a flyer from one of their organizations but have no idea at this time where it is. According to them, America was an imperialistic country and that the official goal was to overthrow the American government. There were what I considered older middle eastern men in school and part of the organizations , as I used to watch them in the student union (of course I couldn't understand a word).
When 911 happened, I actually saw two of the older men from 1976 at an intersection not far from my house. They were students still here in USA?
I think it is possible, that these "insurgents" have been here to infiltrate our country and high positions in our country for the purpose of carrying out their objectives. Even those born here have joined groups that have goals to infiltrate and destroy our country. There is a purpose for the attacks on twin towers, Murrah Bldg and Ft. Hood. You can call me any names you want, but it is my opinion and I don't believe it was an act of "I can't handle it anymore". He was an educated man, psychiatrist specializing in traumatic stress syndrome, or something like that wasn't he? This was not a spur of the moment act. It was performed where a concentrated number of soldiers were preparing to be deployed, evidently they (not one of these soldiers) were not armed and that I can not understand. Dr. Acchhh splacch or whatever was waiting for this time.
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