a question for evolutionists

reply to post by sirnex

It's a valid question, I'm actually curious myself. I never thought of that before lol. Any religious person want to take a crack at this one?

Stop playing.
Besides he has the answer just much as I do.
Did you not see the question Sirnex?

My grammar's getting really bad I 'm getting to tired.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by resonance

Hi, resonance.

About evolution, how it evolves? I think we only guess how.
It is by very small steps, on a long time.

Ask yourself:
**What** made the cormorants, on Easter island, UNABLE to fly,
while ALL the others on the planet CAN fly ?

Blue skies.

I really doubt he would accept me because I believe in him only so I didn't go to hell for not believing in him. Heck, even if there were a God, I seriously doubt

reply to post by sirnex

See this is where you are really missing it. It is impossible to believe in
anything" only so".
For someone to even think I believe," only so" couldn't be farther from the
truth. I first believe their has to be a creator of all this that is around me.
Because I believe everything happens for a reason.
Idk the point of my question was to see if you understand how pointless these bickering conversations are? Pointless and Fruitless. Just a waste of time. Tell you the truth you say The Bible is made thru the mind of man.
At least there is some pretty wild phenomena that had to happen for
us to even have the ancient texts.It cracks me up how archeologists
go hunting and digging for artifacts of old.
If we new not of The Bible and say someone found one in a tomb tomorrow do you know what a big todoo that would be.
I'm afraid we take to much for granted. The Bible is a miracle in itself
so sad that you will never understand that. I will tell you why.
If there is a God i think he would try to communicate.
The Bible has survived many attempts to put it out of existence.
They call it The Living Bible for a reason. To bad you and people like
you will never come to truly know the truth of that.
I don't understand a life with out hope. Sounds like a sad deal to me.

Why exactly do all you Evolutionists think that all life came from only ONE thing?
Why such a Narrow Outlook?
Because someone said it a long tima ago?

Be Original.
Think Outside the Box.
To think that all life just had to begin on Earth is a Box.
Most humans love these Boxes.
Afraid to strain the brain maybe.

Why could there not be thousands of pieces of stuff getting itself together?
Each gathering up different amounts of nutrients in different environments.
And each became another form of life.

reply to post by randyvs

See this is where you are really missing it. It is impossible to believe in
anything" only so".
For someone to even think I believe," only so" couldn't be farther from the
truth.

I disagree, sort of. I know many people who claim belief while using the "just in case" angle of argument for their belief. Heck, if they're wrong they got nothing to lose right?

I first believe their has to be a creator of all this that is around me.

Their doesn't *have* to be and there is no discernible evidence that there is and even less evidence that it is only one God and not fifty-nine Gods.

Because I believe everything happens for a reason.

I don't see thing's happening because some higher power wants it too. I don't believe in destiny or fate and I see no evidence for it.

Idk the point of my question was to see if you understand how pointless these bickering conversations are? Pointless and Fruitless. Just a waste of time.

I disagree, no amount of inquiry, discovery or attempt to learn where our universe came from is pointless or a waste of time.

Tell you the truth you say The Bible is made thru the mind of man.

Because that is true, there is no evidence to the contrary.

At least there is some pretty wild phenomena that had to happen for
us to even have the ancient texts.

I disagree. I don't see any discernibly wild phenomena arising between you and I writing down a series of symbols to articulate our idea's on the matter.

It cracks me up how archeologists
go hunting and digging for artifacts of old.

I hope the perceived humor isn't sarcastic in nature. I think it is wonderful that some people are willing to spend so much time and go to such great lengths to learn about our history.

If we new not of The Bible and say someone found one in a tomb tomorrow do you know what a big todoo that would be.

I am not sure what a 'todoo' is. I'm pretty sure if we didn't know about the bible and it was discovered recently, it would be treated no differently than any other mythological account of creation.

I'm afraid we take to much for granted.

Thankfully, you can't speak for me. I take nothing for granted, life is to short and too precious to do so.

The Bible is a miracle in itself
so sad that you will never understand that.

The bible is no more miraculous than Scientology. That is the sad state of affairs.

If there is a God i think he would try to communicate.

If your sure there is a God, then why hasn't he communicated? He certainly has not tried to contact me.

The Bible has survived many attempts to put it out of existence.

I disagree here. The rich history behind the Abrahamic God is one bloody violent history of where the Abrahamic God has been forced upon the rest of the world.

I don't understand a life with out hope. Sounds like a sad deal to me.

That certainly does sound sad! Yet, I don't need a man made religion and God to have hope. Quiet frankly, neither do you.

Why exactly do all you Evolutionists think that all life came from only ONE thing? Why such a Narrow Outlook? Because someone said it a long tima ago?

No. Modern biochemistry and genetics have shown, that all the life we know today, comes from one line. The universality of the genetic code, the same aminoacids (with rare exceptions) build the proteins, and the same basic structures and mechanisms can be found in all cells.

Are other forms of life possible? Of cause. The part of our world we are able to perceive and analyze is miniscule to the universum. But we may not have encountered them yet.

Evolution and conspiracies have much in common. They both happen generally unobserved in the dark. Only the results are visible to the observer.

Most people, even those having started as sceptics, who have invested much time into the topic „conspiracy theories“, come finally to the realization, that there are conspiracies going on; more conspiracies, than they, prior to their research, thought possible.
As one invests more time and research in diverse areas like history, politics and psychology, the patterns behind conspiracies become clearer for the theorist. The same is true for evolution. For those, who study it for a long time, the fact of evolution is no question. Those few long-time studiers who doubt it, have, like high-ranking government employees denying any government liability, generally conflicting interests.

As the MSM have a great impact on the formulation of public opinions, so have have prominent scientists in the scientific community. When arguments and information are delivered in a special manner, most hypotheses formulated on evolution, sound reasonable at first. Research and the development of new ideas is often guided along certain paths. These paths can lead astray. The research will later be disproven as faulty. The seeker of truth will disprove falsehood, but like a conspiracy theorist will never be able to know all the actions and thought behind a conspiracy, so will the evolutionary biologist never be able to know everything about the evolution of a life.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Drunkenshrew]

reply to post by Drunkenshrew

Modern biochemistry and genetics have shown, that all the life we know today, comes from one line.

I'm not sure where you've gotten your information, but there appears to be at the very least two distinct line's, and up to possibly four if we count virus' as the fourth line. Depending on how we classify everything.

If you refer to the differences between the three domains prokaryotes, eukaryotes, and archaea they are huge, but they share the same basic lineage.

If you don't believe me you should read more about the genetic code and about the 22 standard amino acids. They are found in all cells.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Drunkenshrew]

Originally posted by Drunkenshrew
If you refer to the differences between the three domains prokaryotes, eukaryotes, and archaea they are huge, but they share the same basic lineage.

If you don't believe me you should read more about the genetic code and about the 22 standard amino acids. They are found in all cells.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Drunkenshrew]

I know they consist of the same amino acids, but I was under the impression that the specific coding instructions are different between the three?

The similarities are far greater than the differences.
en.wikipedia.org...
The following basic mechanisms and molecules are found in all cells. Do you believe theses similarities are just by chance?

All archaea, prokaryotes and eukaryotes are cellular beings.
In all cells genetic information is encoded in DNA.
In all cells DNA information is enconded in form of triplets.
These information is a code for the same 22 standard amino acids found in all cells.
Amino acids are basic elements which are assembled to form structural proteins and enzymes.
The building process is realized by ribosomes.
Enzymes, structural proteins and ribosomes are found in all cells.

I left out viruses, because I don't consider them to be real life. But one can argue with that. Viruses share with cells the following two components: 1. structural proteins, 2. nucleic acids, nucleic acids store the information needed for replication, if this information is translated in the host cell, the decoding process found in all cells is also used by the virus (triplets, 22 proteinogene amino acids, use of ribosomes and enzymes).

I would be glad to study any research/information, which proposes that archaea, prokaryotes and eukaryotes don't share the same basic ancestor. I would be even more delighted, if you can provide a study, which considers the universal genetic code or the astonishing matching of proteinogenic amino acids to be results of multiple convergent evolution.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Drunkenshrew]

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Drunkenshrew]

I dont think I've read one decent answer yet

Second Line.

Please try to understand that the nature of science is to rarely ever have a difinitive explanation on this or that. Unlike religious dogma, when new information comes to light, established BS (belief systems) are either altered to accomodate the new information or, if they can't accommodate the new data, they are scrapped in favor of a new idea that seems to rationally explain the new data in relation to all the old data. Y'see, Science is the first philosophy of everything that can actually "evolve" and expand with the growth of human knowledge. What a fantastic advantage this gives those that believe in science over those that cling to dogma.

Does anybody REALLY know where we and all of this other stuff came from?? The answer is no. None of us can claim with absolute certainty that they know from whence this magnificent universe sprang. But, for my money, Natural Selection and the Big Bang are light years closer to the truth than believe a magic Space Daddy just made it all happen.

Originally posted by randyvs

I really doubt he would accept me because I believe in him only so I didn't go to hell for not believing in him. Heck, even if there were a God, I seriously doubt

reply to post by sirnex

 

See this is where you are really missing it. It is impossible to believe in
anything" only so".
For someone to even think I believe," only so" couldn't be farther from the
truth. I first believe their has to be a creator of all this that is around me.
Because I believe everything happens for a reason.
Idk the point of my question was to see if you understand how pointless these bickering conversations are? Pointless and Fruitless. Just a waste of time. Tell you the truth you say The Bible is made thru the mind of man.
At least there is some pretty wild phenomena that had to happen for
us to even have the ancient texts.It cracks me up how archeologists
go hunting and digging for artifacts of old.
If we new not of The Bible and say someone found one in a tomb tomorrow do you know what a big todoo that would be.
I'm afraid we take to much for granted. The Bible is a miracle in itself
so sad that you will never understand that. I will tell you why.
If there is a God i think he would try to communicate.
The Bible has survived many attempts to put it out of existence.
They call it The Living Bible for a reason. To bad you and people like
you will never come to truly know the truth of that.
I don't understand a life with out hope. Sounds like a sad deal to me.

and there you have it- your beliefs are an emotional crutch- it makes you feel better to think that someone is looking out for you- you don't have the emotional fortitude to stand on your own two feet- you need someone to hold you up- ie an imaginary god.

Evolutionism and Creationism cannot exist without each other. Period.
Anyone that puts one above the other is not being honest with themselves.

Asexual to sexual? hermaphoditic. happens in nature still (lower on the food chain of course).

Umbilical? See above.

Just because there was a "big bang" doesnt negate "god/goddess". It reinforces it. Where did the material of the bang come from?

7 days though (or 7000)? Thats just intellectual laziness. Just because its in the bible doesnt mean its literal.

Unless you're abjectly opposed to the idea of a creator, I have absolutely no idea why the premise of God and evolution cannot coexist in the same sentence... you can go from primordial metorites crashing into primordial oceans on Earth, combining the basis of amino acids with geothermally heated water rife with naturally occuring bacteria - from there unique cellular life begin to form - from there mitosis begins - from there genetic mutation over eons leads to certain cells developing certain characteristics, on a molecular level, to what we consider sexual reproduction from the asexual reproduction previous - fill in the blanks from there (amorphous material, amphibian life, the triassic, jurassic and cretaceous); all post cambrean life forms, etc. The bottom line is that when you trace all of this evolution backwards, you ultimately come to one basic, unanswerable question; how? How could this have happened? How could amino acids, at just the right time, have subsequently come from an extra-planetary source to intermingle with the basic raw materials that were already here spawining hundreds of millions of years of complex development? The answer... there is no such thing as coincidence

My two cents, and something I've thought about for a long time. IMO, as plausible an explanation as any. Intelligent design? Ah, not so much - an experiment with water, algae and the divine equivalent of a coalesced, planetary E-Z Bake Oven? Maybe...

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Legion2112]

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Legion2112]

Originally posted by kick Flip
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

Well.... It looks as though you know the answer to everything huh? By the way, evolution is not science fact, it's just a theory. Nobody on Earth can prove we "evolved" from anything. Have you ever seen something evolve before your eyes? No I didnt think so....

I bolded the idiotic parts of your statement. I'm honestly surprised you left out "Why are there still monkeys?!?!?!"

A scientific theory is fact. You don't get to call it a theory unless every shred of evidence you have points towards your conclusion - and you'd better have a goddamned lot of evidence that you researched, that others researched, that your critics can research, and it all has to stand up. evolution has managed this. Gravity has managed this.

This is a very different type of theory from the humanities theory, which is all idea and no evidence, and is the sort of theory used in common parlance.

Have I ever seen something evolve before my eyes? No, because evolution doesn't work like a comic book. However, i have seen mutation and even natural selection at work with my own eyes. I know that logically a combination of genetic drift and environmental pressures will result in a population being different from its parent population, as well as its sibling populations.

And before you jibbajabba about macro / micro-evolution, you need to realize that "species" is an almost useless classification, right up there with "race". There are some "species" that are nearly identical, yet cannot crossbreed even if the wanted to. And there are other species that are widely divergent which can not only breed with each other, but produce fertile offspring when they do.

Linnaeus is dead.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

[edit on 6-11-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by Legion2112


They certainly could!

...Trouble is, while there is evidence of evolution, we still lack evidence of a creator-being who guides it along.

If the ID folks could offer up some evidence of a creator-being, the idea that evolution and a creator go hand-in-hand would have merit. In the lack of such evidence, it makes more sense to omit the idea of a creator and just go with what we do know.

This is just an observation of a post that I think may need to be clarified

for me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In one post from nixie_nox:

think these discussions emulate what Christians or creationists can't handle the most,t he idea that things have occurred by accident. Then it negates the reason for existence.

In a post just down from the above nixie_nox:

See, fossil records are the mutants and the exceptions to evolution. Because the Earth's ecology is designed to recycle everything. energy, nutrients, are not wasted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont understand how it is designed if it just happened.

reply to post by savagediver


*sigh* You ID folks really grasp at any little straw you can find.

The earth pretty much recycles everything, because it's the smartest thing to do. If you have unused resources lying around, something will evolve to make use of it.

It's sad that i know more about the bible, than the ID folks know about evolution. You folks need to stop your constant trolling and educate yourselves.

Religion is the biggest conspiracy of all, so what the hell are you doing on a conspiracy site with the motto "Deny ignorance?"

Originally posted by resonance

also, how did it come about that various species give birth in different ways..inside the body, outside the body

Actually this was explained in Scaly Dinosaur Bible. From the Book of Timothy T-rex, chapter 2 verse 8 (translations in brackets):

And it came to pass that Timothy, Tommy the triceratops, and Barry the brontasaurus cast their gaze upon the heavens and lamented, “Rooar?”
[Verily, Lord, We are vexed by the sins of my brethren lizards. They doth consume the flesh of their brother lizards, and lusteth after their neighbor’s mates. Is there no salvation for us, Lord?]

To which the Lord replied, “Roar, Rowwlll, Errrr.”
[Fear not, righteous Timothy, for I bring thee tidings of great joy. Born to you is a savior this day in the land of Pangea. Follow the bright, shining new star in the east and behold the salvation of the world. Oh, and bring gifts.]

So the three dinosaurs crossed the great desert with the star’s guidance, whereupon they came upon a cave. And lo, they beheld the miracle. A savior born not of egg, but carried inside his mother’s womb, emerging fully formed. Overcome by the miracle of live birth, Tommy cried, “Arrrhhhh, Owwwlll!”
[Lord, we have faithfully followed yonder star, and it has led us to a rat. How can it be that this mammal is the savior of the world.]

And the Lord answered him, saying, “Aaaaroooooww!”
[Well, technically, that’s not a star, it’s a meteor …]