Originally posted by David9176
What's the point. How many people are going to be able to read the full 2000 pages of the bill?

It's a farce and no one should vote for this. I want health care fixed...but there is no reason it should take TWO THOUSAND PAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was probbaly the most ignorant sentiment ive ever heard posted on ATS, and thats saying quite a bit. So you want health care fixed but you want it in pamphlet form? Perhaps you dont understand how complex the transfer over would be, 2,000 pages for 304 MILLION people.
You couldnt sound more like a redneck screaming "BURN LITERATURE". Its too long for you?? Like i cant believe anyone would say that the bill is two thousand pages thus it must be hogwash. Too many pages?? is no-one else completely blown away by this?? You should be this probbaly isnt the mentality of just one person, to be perfectly clear he/she said:
"It's a farce and no one should vote for this. I want health care fixed...but there is no reason it should take TWO THOUSAND PAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
That my friendly Americans is why you leave the rest of the world scratching its head sometimes.

This is not a left versus right issue. Yes, the left side of congress is spending like there is no tomorrow and doesnt seem to care about the consequences. How quickly we forget how just last administration the right was doing the same thing. Slowly eroding our rights and pushing our nation closer to the brink of disaster.

You see if it were Government vs. all of us, of course we would all be united. The clever trick was to create a 2 party system so that they could manipulate us. If there is no government vs. everyone, but goverment and one viewpoint holding a portion of everyone, and government with the opposite viewpoint holding the rest of the people, then they are free to do what they want because behind closed doors they know they can do what they want and they are proving it in the way that the new administration is doing a lot of the same things as the old one.

Originally posted by Hack28

Originally posted by David9176
What's the point. How many people are going to be able to read the full 2000 pages of the bill?

It's a farce and no one should vote for this. I want health care fixed...but there is no reason it should take TWO THOUSAND PAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was probbaly the most ignorant sentiment ive ever heard posted on ATS, and thats saying quite a bit. So you want health care fixed but you want it in pamphlet form? Perhaps you dont understand how complex the transfer over would be, 2,000 pages for 304 MILLION people.
You couldnt sound more like a redneck screaming "BURN LITERATURE". Its too long for you?? Like i cant believe anyone would say that the bill is two thousand pages thus it must be hogwash. Too many pages?? is no-one else completely blown away by this?? You should be this probbaly isnt the mentality of just one person, to be perfectly clear he/she said:
"It's a farce and no one should vote for this. I want health care fixed...but there is no reason it should take TWO THOUSAND PAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
That my friendly Americans is why you leave the rest of the world scratching its head sometimes.

You are partially right in one aspect. A bill of this magnitude probably should carry some meat. The issue a lot of people are having is that it is being pushed through without many people, if anyone, fully understanding it. We have gone this long so taking some time to make sure everyone voting on it understands it should not be a problem. What is the rush?

To those that would support this bill I ask these questions for you:

1. Can we really afford this right now with two wars, a depression, and a devalue of our dollar?
2. If you want this and you tax the top 10 percent of those earners, how are you going to prevent those costs being passed on to the consumer?
3. If Health Care is so messed up, why would you want to ram through 2000 pages of nebulous legal language and not know what was in the bill? We spent a very little amount of time preparing for the Afghan and Iraq war with little debate, why would you do the same when it comes to your health?
4. Why are California and Massachusetts broke from their own state plans and how would prevent that?
5. I'm not for medicare or the department of Education and I believe that it is up to the right of the states to provide what you are calling for so how do you Constitutionally justify your position?
6. Have you ever been into a VA hospital? If you have can you honestly say you want the government providing your healthcare?
7. Why are you not pushing for tort reform?
8. Why are you not pushing for Insurance companies to compete across state lines?
9. Why are you supporting the FDA to demonize known successful alternative doctors like Dr. Weil when they support healthy lifestyle initiatives that will be shot down by the Pharma lobby?
10. How are you going to grow the private sector and jobs when everyone is paying close to 60 percent of their income to cover this cost?


That's just ten off the top of my head.

I think that personally, the US government being involved in your health care is a very BAD idea but let's get one thing straight: this isn't reform. You're just going to get shafted under a different plan.

Originally posted by Hal9000
This isn't about posting a final version of the bill. This is about catching a politician in a lie, and using it as a weak chance to bash her. Let's get real.

So? Pelosi was trying to do that with Bush and his cabinet for the entire time he was in office. You mean that it can't happen to her? And besides, catching congressmen and women in a lie is a great American pasttime.

And didn't she say that hers was the most ethical Congress?

Originally posted by Hal9000
The first version has been available to read, which I'll bet none of you have. I know I didn't. Legal speak put's me right to sleep.

I'll go one further and predict that even when the final version is released, none of you will read it anyway. But hey, by all means have your fun.

I'm waiting for the Cliff Notes version.

Originally posted by jerico65
So? Pelosi was trying to do that with Bush and his cabinet for the entire time he was in office.

Before Obama was elected, none of them posted any bills for us to see on the internet 72 hours before they were to vote on it. As far as I know, this is the first time ANY congress did. How did she bash bush for doing this?

Look I'm not sticking up for Pelosi here. All Im saying is that she did make the bill available several days ago.

And didn't she say that hers was the most ethical Congress?

What is unethical about being late to posting the final version of a bill? Unless she was cheating on her husband or accepting a bribe then she is just not upholding a promise.

Like I said. This isn't about her being late to post the bill, because two years ago you wouldn't have even expected it to be posted. You just want to complain some mores cus you all lost the election.

Why should the public read what the legislators themselves will not read?

Originally posted by Hal9000
Before Obama was elected, none of them posted any bills for us to see on the internet 72 hours before they were to vote on it.

Hey, didn't Obama promise a "transparent Government"? Guess that promise is getting in the way of Congress screwing over the American Public.

Originally posted by Hal9000
As far as I know, this is the first time ANY congress did. How did she bash bush for doing this?

She just bashed Bush on anything that came down the pike.

Originally posted by Hal9000
You just want to complain some mores cus you all lost the election.

Spare me that tripe. What's wrong? Something being pointed out as being a bit sneaky about your Democratic Congress and it's rubbing you the wrong way? Pelosi and her lapdog Reid are crooked as the day is long.

So I guess its ok to force unemployed US citizens, which U 6 places at around 53 million currently and rising, under a mandate to spend 15,000 dollars (the cheapest single family plan under the current bill) or face up to 250,000 dollar fines or imprisonment for five years?

You can thank Pelosi for those prison terms. Guess they will find some use for those FEMA camps after all, because they will fill up fast.

Originally posted by Hal9000
You know, I don't know why I waste my time with people like you that are truly unreasonable. I am reading your reply and it doesn't make sense to me other than you simply want to complain.

Oh, shucks. I'm sorry. Did I offend you? Did I somehow strike a chord in you that caused you harm? Have you filled out your "hurt feelings report" yet?

I know you have a Nancy Pelosi pinup in the basement you're living in, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that she's not keeping a promise. She said that 72 hours prior, the bill will be posted. That's so simple I'm quite sure that you can even understand that.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Yes Obama promised a transparent government, and as I have pointed out several times now, the House health care bill is available for you to read. We may be getting screwed, but it is not because we can't read the bill.

But if you can't read it, how are you going to know how badly you're going to be screwed? I want the final bill, the one they are going to vote on, to be posted where anyone that wants to can read it. I don't want some draft copy, or something along those lines.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Everything else you said isn't even worthy of a reply so I will simply ask that you run along off to bed, and don't forget to brush your tooth.

Oh, my, another personal attack. I'm sorry that your Democratic Dream of a perfect future with Pelosi, Reid, and Barney Frank (especially Barney) are crumbling around you. Life sucks sometimes, doesn't it?

None the people complaining would actually read the bill. Rather, they would get their talking points from world net daily, weekly standard, or Fox News. So, they're upset that Fox News can't read the bill and then make up some fake stuff to tell them about it. The same people that completely manufactured "death panels" from a section talking about counseling people in the creation of a will are the ones they "trust." What a joke!

We should write letters to tell the people who make Quicken Willmaker that their software is a death panel that decides who live and who dies.

People say the bill is too complex for a normal person to understand and yet int the same breath complain that they can't read the bill they can't understand.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by andrewh7]

Unfortunately, the most important bill, the final one that the President is going to sign into law, probably won't be posted anywhere for public inspection. It will be crafted in a secret committee where the House bill and Senate bill are merged. That's where another trillion dollars worth
of pork and probably several outrageous amendments will be added.
It will be finalized and signed into law very quickly after leaving the
conference committee. The freedoms lost and financial cost will cause
total outrage after this behmoth is signed into law and people start
seeing pieces of it put into action over the next 4 years.

Anyone taken by surprise by a member of Congress breaking a promise should invest in my "swampland condos and retirement center". In exchange for taking care of you in your retirement you simply sign over all your Worldly assets to me (as long as you have the required minimum in assets).

Why not post the bill for a week or maybe even two? Give us all time to read and discuss it, give Congress time to actually read a bill for a change. What's the big rush? If its good it will still be good a week or two from now, right?

If I were to make a list of legislation passed in a hurry it would oddly enough match up with my list of "very bad legislation". Oh well, I'm laughing it up. People in the US want to be victimized so I say let it roll! Maybe the tyranny will finally reach the point of forcing people to deal with reality and get them to clean house in DC and pass the reforms needed to keep this country free and together.

Until then I'm not going to be angry, I'm going to laugh and laugh some more at all the suckers getting fleeced, especially the ones who cheer-lead the fleecing because their team has the ball right now. Watching them get a wake up call is going to be the best part of all.

Enjoy that "change" folks. Its going to be like the scientist changing into The Fly rather than a caterpillar to a butterfly but it will be "change".

[edit on 7-11-2009 by ecoparity]