Pelosi Breaks Pledge to Put Final Health Care Bill Online for 72 Hours Before Vote, page 3


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 32 times


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:09 AM by centurion1211
Originally posted by Hal9000
Whachu talking bout Willis?

Pelosi unveiled the House version of the bill several days ago.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You can download it and read it here (warning 1990 pages big pdf).

What they are referring to is the final version being posted, which is still being negotiated. Is that really enough of a reason to bash her? Of coarse it is, if you are a right wing extremist.

Give them an inch and they want a mile.


You are actually advocating congress voting on a bill that will profoundly change our lives, that no one - not even congress - gets a chance to read before it is voted on? What good does reading a preliminary version do if they make a bunch of key changes after it is published?

Your post - right up there near the top of the list for dumbest things I've ever read.




reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:14 AM by j2000
Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by jerico65

This isn't about posting a final version of the bill. This is about catching a politician in a lie, and using it as a weak chance to bash her. Let's get real.

The first version has been available to read, which I'll bet none of you have. I know I didn't. Legal speak put's me right to sleep.

I'll go one further and predict that even when the final version is released, none of you will read it anyway. But hey, by all means have your fun.
[edit on 11/6/2009 by Hal9000]



Let me clarify something for you. Last time I checked, this was The United States of America. This is a Republic as in By Law. Our law starts with the Constitution and is backup up by the Bill of Rights.

As a citizen, I have the right to read or not read what my Congress is doing or signing.
As a duly swore servant to The People, it is their Duty, their Job that they asked to do for The People, that they get paid for By The People to put forth for review and debate, any legislation being proposed to be voted on, on behalf of representing We The People.

It is not your job to Judge wether or not people have the right to have it available for their review based on the fact of their FREEDOM to choose to or not too.


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:18 AM by j2000
reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt


Your quote
Crucify Pelosi and Obama all you want, but make sure that you've got Bush, Cheney, Hassert, Gingrich up there as well.


Wow! Some of you people really have to learn to let go. Would it not be better if everyone was keeping their eye on the ball?
How can you not stumble and fall if your head is always turned backwards.


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:27 AM by justinsweatt
As we can see now very clearly, I think the arguments proposed in "The Fall of the Republic" film are now ringing quite true. We have a political system that amounts to nothing more than a duopoly of the same interests, unfortunately. We can change that though and I am seriously hoping that in 2010 we have the rise of third parties that will start getting things done in the name of the people that will harvest the ideas of the Constitution, Liberty, and Freedom.

It's a deft move from Pelosi's side since she's basically taking a page out of the play book of the neo-cons on how to be divisive.

It's like the sticker says: Liberal: someone who is only against war when a democrat is not in office. The very word liberal is based on the term of Liberty and the only "liberals" that I find worth championing are those Libertarians who are standing up for true civil liberties.

The thing is that legislation can be overturned. So it passes.....it can always be repealed. Though the process is long and it will waste money doing so, we can still win at the end of the day if we remain positive and stay serious about fighting this despotism, especially if we set aside whatever personal differences we have with each other. I know that sounds like hippie dippie non-sense but look at the founding fathers. Those guys disagreed extensively with each other on a great many issues but they still were able to come together, put aside their differences, and create this great Republic that we have as Americans. We can do it again if people just don't get trapped into this false "left/right" thinking that has been promoted for decades.


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:30 AM by RobertAntonWeishaupt
Originally posted by j2000
reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt


Your quote
Crucify Pelosi and Obama all you want, but make sure that you've got Bush, Cheney, Hassert, Gingrich up there as well.


Wow! Some of you people really have to learn to let go. Would it not be better if everyone was keeping their eye on the ball?
How can you not stumble and fall if your head is always turned backwards.



Because they are not in the past. They are the giants on whose shoulders the current batch is standing. If you only focus your ire on the current batch of miscreants, you will fall into the trap of thinking the "other" party is the answer. People angry at Democrats make the mistake of voting Republican. People angry at Republicans make the mistake of voting Democrat.

Only by taking in the full sweep of the bovine feces across the years can you maintain the perspective to hate them all. You can look back decades and see the same crap done by both sides of the aisle, but I tend to look post-9/11 as THAT was the move that ramped all of this into high gear.

If you think it is only those that are currently in power at responsible for the situation we're in, then it is you who have taken your eye off the ball.


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:37 AM by Philalethes
Originally posted by whackamole
Originally posted by Walkswithfish
reply to post by Hal9000


"If the government wanted to take away your rights, they would not hide it in a Healthcare Bill. Our Government needs no excuse take away the rights that it gave you."

Dude you have got to take a civics class...Our Gov't does not provide us rights, our constitution does! Sense you obviously have not read the Declaration of Independence here a little teaser...


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.


Phil

edit: Quote Wachamole...

[edit on 6-11-2009 by Philalethes]



reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:48 AM by Cloudsinthesky
reply to post by prjct


Do you not think this may say something for the people who live in that area........?

If you look at Barny Frank, Dodd, Read and many others.......the people have been voting them in for years......

Its says a lot about their mind set and where they would like to see the country go........

When ever you see number like 60% against the healthcare bill........The people in these congressional leaders areas make up that other 40%....

So you ask why don't they vote them out?? Why should they? They have the same mind set and this is the divide between Americans.....


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:48 AM by RobertAntonWeishaupt
reply to post by centurion1211


Which is why Republicans want to tell women what they can and can not do with their bodies, determine what schools can and can not teach, decide who can and can not be married. That's why Republicans invented the idea of "free speech zones" where dissent was allowed, but arrested people for wearing T-Shirts outside of that zone.

The Republicans are so big on self sufficiency that they have set up (with full Democrat approval, I might add) the largest domestic surveillance system in the history of our nation.

They are so concerned about fair competition that they pour ridiculous subsidies to industries which would fail if we had a real free market system.

Do not give me this crap that the Republicans are for self-sufficiency. They are for individuals fending for themselves as long as it doesn't rub their personal convictions the wrong way or threaten their hold on power.

Republicans just have a different way of slipping money to their corporate masters and a more passive aggressive way of keeping the masses in line. If you buy any of the nonsense you are spouting, then you are just another cog in their machine.

If you want freedom, find yourself an atheist Libertarian to vote for.


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:52 AM by Hal9000
reply to post by centurion1211


Originally posted by centurion1211
You are actually advocating congress voting on a bill that will profoundly change our lives, that no one - not even congress - gets a chance to read before it is voted on?

Like I said, it has been posted for all to read for several days. Once they have read the first version all they have to do is read the amendments. They have the chance to read the whole bill over this time, but as we all know that doesn't mean they have. Is that so hard to figure out?

I'm not advocating they not read the bill and you know it.

You know centurion, just once I would like to see you apply these high standards to both sides of the aisle, then maybe you and I can talk. Otherwise your words mean about the same to me as mine do to you.

[edit on 11/6/2009 by Hal9000]


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:55 AM by Hal9000
reply to post by j2000

So how did you read all these bills before they were posted on the internet? I think it is great that they post the bills so we can. They may not be the final versions because that's how these things work.

Everything is not a simple as that.


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:56 AM by RobertAntonWeishaupt
reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt


Incidentally, the Democrats have just as much crap that they want to control, but it seems that Democrats Want to Control EVERYTHING!!! is the already the dominant meme here and I'm just looking to point out that the "two" parties are just to of Cerberus's heads.


reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 12:09 PM by merkaba93
It is clear Pelosi's (one of the real questions to ask is why do the people in her district continue to re-elect her?) version of healthcare "reform" will be shoved down our throats. Watch the doctors head for the exits when it happens. I've spoken to several who plan on early retirement as they just aren't going to deal with it.

Will Pelosi use her own health plan?

Replacing private insurance executives with government insurance executives will do what?

But really at the end of the day it doesn't matter because the Republic is already failed. Or rather the unconstitutional Corporation that has taken over the Republic has already failed.

It is bankrupt. There is no possible way the deficit spending can be turned around. The debt is just too massive and they keep expanding it by the second. The bond auction yesterday flopped. No buyers of the debt. Did you hear about it in the "news"?

NY Fed Bond Auction Results for Nov. 5th 2009

Of course it is much easier to bring the world's greatest economic power down to the level of the poorest than to bring the poor up to the level of the US, in the creation of a globalist run fiat money system.

I'd liken the US to a chicken running around with its head cut off. The legs are still moving because they don't know the brain is gone. It is clear though that the debt cannot be paid off.

The passing of this healthcare reform will most likely be one of the final things that pushes the federal government into outright debt default, currency crisis etc.




[edit on 6-11-2009 by merkaba93]
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