At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by bsbray11


So what other countries brainwash their citizens into pushing this same kind of crap, that aren't American.... I would guess you must either be British, Australian, or Israeli. How off am I?

Who is prejudiced here, exactly. The words quoted above serve as a strong indictment of the author.

If you are truly searching for prejudiced, I can help.

Take a look in the mirror. You will see it there.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by Night Watchman]

reply to post by mmiichael

Were they from a source other than a ranting conspiracy site troll I might be offended.

Now let me just get this straight here, you are accusing a man who is being forthright and honest even in a highly controversial way in regards to some of your more unseemly baseless and unproven allegations as a troll when just a page ago you said...

As I wind up my tour of duty in Conspiracy Wonderland I have noted the overarching passion from certain quarters of this community at every opportunity attempting to connect and implicate the US government and it's often claimed accessory the Israeli government as the true planners of virtually every crime and malfeasance that has any linkage to the Muslim World.

You could not have made it clearer that your endeavors here could hardly be construed to be ones of a concerned amateur with this wording.

Having said that you could not have been more vague as to why as the inflammatory rhetoric that is being turned up all over the internet by the anti-Muslim “War on Terrorism” and pro-Zionist crowd you are withdrawing?

Clearly an organized and tightly timed conspiracy is unfolding again right before our eyes to vilify Muslims.

A very clever person might wonder then why you are withdrawing. Could it be another far deadlier false flag in your own city that you privately confessed to me months ago was on the list of potential targets for a dirty bomb as is my own city Miami?

Could it be that Operation Cast Lead that was pre-planned for months to kick off right after the Christmas Holidays last year is to be followed up by another Israeli offensive against Iran after these Christmas Holidays?

Your choice of words as well as bedfellows is highly suspect Michael.

Where there is smoke there is fire. There is so much smoke blowing right now Charleston Heston should be in some towering inferno in Los Angeles right now.

reply to post by Night Watchman


The only reason I appear "prejudiced" against the nations I listed is because it is a fact that they are intimately related with the US and its foreign policies.

Who went to Iraq with us? It damned sure wasn't Russia and China.

Plus the fact that he speaks English kind of narrows down the statistical possibilities as well. I suppose that's prejudiced too.



Btw, would it make it suddenly even more "prejudiced" if he were from any of the countries I guessed based on the above information?

And someone NOT from the US has absolutely no idea what is or isn't a popular idea in America. I have a feeling mmiichael would be completely shocked to realize how widespread the belief that 9/11 was an inside job really is here. It's no secret here anymore that the mass media does not represent the people or their concerns.

All I am doing is sticking up for the persecuted. Which happens to be Muslims here. No one else. The people spewing hate about all Muslims, not just the extremist murders, are simply racist. End of story. Like I said, I was raised around racism, I know what it feels like, smells like, how people try to hide it in front of others. But the sentiments speak for themselves.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by bsbray11]

It's funny observing the hornet's nest among the Usual Suspects. This one really is a tough one. But I can usually count on the proven talent aorund here.

Pointers.

You should be scouring the Net searching for some way to tie in the CIA or Mossad as the secret masterminds behind the Fort Hood murders. Somewhere out there is an Israeli generated paper on mind-control on something. If not create a rumour.

You need something insidious beyond the fumbled misreports of more than one shooter to tie your evolving thesis to. Get working on it.

As we all know, crazed Islamists actually killing innocent Americans - it's unthinkable. Just a new chapter in the "Official Story." It has to a set up.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael

But suddenly there is rush of protective concern for the troubled Major Hasan now considered the 'alleged' perpetrator. The word 'alleged' is rare in this environment. And now suddenly the importance of proof and mitigating circumstances is emphasized as a right for all who are accused of crimes against their fellow man.

Insightful.

I expect the fallout from this recent event will reverberate for a long time.


M

I don't know about you, but the lowest portions of my higher education pertain to the criminal justice system, and if need be, I can provide proof to the mods and they can verify my claims. I'm not relying on an appeal of authority fallacy, but relying on the fact that I believe ALL should be treated equal and afforded due process. Where does your expertise and comments stem from and what led you to form the assessment that a "rush" of protective concern is what is taking place?

Recently, before the shooting occured, I actually had a debate with a "super moderator" on this board, and I said the same thing for child molestors and pedophilles--they should be afforded due process. Yes, people do crimes, horrible crimes, but the nature of the crime should not eliminate the chance to receive due process. As previously stated, if this case is not done by the book and the alleged shooter convicted, you will have claims of civil rights violations, appeals will prolong sentencing (death penalty if that's what they seek) and the family may never get the type of closure they desire due to technicalities. I'm sorry, but if you people want justice served for the families, or not even for the families, for justice sake, you would show the world that you aren't cowards, have morals, and can do opposite of what you accuse your "enemies" of doing.

Now I'll address your concern for "alleged" because you and others seems to harper on the word as if it's kryptonite or something. Legally, you will land yourself in hot water if you call someone anything other then alleged or suspect. Now I want you to R-E-A-D the following links and pay attention to the titles of the stories or the very first sentence of each one.

www.cnn.com...

www.npr.org...

abcnews.go.com...

In closing, the word "alleged" may be rare in your environment, but in mine it certainly is not. I'm not speaking for anyone else, and can't speak for anyone else, but I'm consistant when it comes to my views about law and the criminal justice system.

reply to post by mmiichael


Perhaps the greatest disservice ever done to those who have a passion for conspiracies is ATS Michael and this absurd notion that the most secretive and sadistic, powerful and evil criminal masterminds in the world can have their best laid plans exposed through Google searches and hyperlinks that will prove or disprove for those who can’t believe anything unless it’s presenting to them in URL form in black and white.

Conspiracies really happen and real history is full of them. When they are exposed which is rarely it’s usually through a lot of diligent wearing out of shoe leather, private detective work and an intrepid soul not afraid to take on powerful forces and take incredible risks.

To suggest such things as 9-11 or Ft. Hood could be proven or disproven through Internet Search Engines is perhaps as nonsensical as it is comical.

Such things are the equivalent of a modern day snipe hunt where instead of a mythical non-existent bird its red herrings that is sought after through Internet Search Engines.

The true usual suspects that cabal of Internationalists don’t leave clues on the Internet and don’t conduct their business on the Internet and most of the clues that they might have left quickly go up in a puff of smoke or are buried in a dessert grave or in a swamp by men who’s lives and freedoms depend on destroying the evidence.

Why exactly would you want to misdirect concerned people to seek out nonsense in a venue in a way where all they are ever going to stumble across is idle speculation and chit chat, red herrings and false trails?

Originally posted by mmiichael
You should be scouring the Net searching for some way to tie in the CIA or Mossad as the secret masterminds behind the Fort Hood murders. Somewhere out there is an Israeli generated paper on mind-control on something. If not create a rumour.

By the way you keep bringing Jews and the Mossad up into this when no one else is bringing that up, you are making me think that you are an Israeli yourself. What in the hell would an Israeli know about Muslims in America? If you think it's anything here like it is there, you're off your rocker. And if you think we're in any hurry to come aid your military brutality over there, or help you kill all the Muslims and conquer the Middle East, you're even crazier.

The "Muslim threat" in America is nothing. It's less than the threat of me being hit by a car. That apparently means nothing to you, though, since you seem hell-bent on going and killing all the Muslims regardless.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Now I'll address your concern for "alleged" because you and others seems to harper on the word as if it's kryptonite or something. Legally, you will land yourself in hot water if you call someone anything other then alleged or suspect. Now I want you to R-E-A-D the following links and pay attention to the titles of the stories or the very first sentence of each one.

The basic tenet of our legal system is "presumed innocent until proven guilty."

Maybe lost in my hasty delivery and not stressed, the unwritten rules on a less formally structured conspiracy site environment is "Guilty with a website or video link. Intimation will do in a pinch. Lack of proof just means the government is covering it up."

Yes it defies reason and fairness. But these are not concerns to some.

This may sound like a dramatized exaggeration - but it really isn't.



[edit on 13-11-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by nenothtu


This is correct, and it pains me to see such disinformation on this site. I can handle someone being wrong once, or even twice, but being wrong multiple times, making claims that a guy who died 20 years ago recently gave orders to harm people, and totally disregarding the evidence presented shows nothing but ignorance.

reply to post by mmiichael

Maybe lost in my hasty delivery and not stressed, the unwritten rules on a less formally structured conspiracy site environment is "Guilty with a website or video link. Intimation will do in a pinch. Lack of proof just means the government is covering it up."

Yes it defies reason and fairness. But these are not concerns to some.

But Michael you are the one who is behaving in the exact manner you are decrying by insisting Hassan is guilty and all Muslims represent a danger!

You are the one who is taking offense to the word "Alleged" you are the one who keeps decrying people on conspiracy sites based on their percieved loose standards while you yourself are actually appearing more guilty of this than those you accuse!

You know work is slow and I could really upgrade the quality of those on Israeli/Zionist Internet Tours of duty for a very substantial fee!

Nepotism seems to definately be involved in the Israeli Internet Defense Services!

reply to post by mmiichael


Then your problem should be with tcertain members, or how the site may or may not encourage such a thing. However, not all members take videos and everything for face value, and often ask to see the entire clip, ask in what context things are being shown, asked if the person showing it has an agenda, etc. For example, there is a thread here about God ordering people to kill homosexuals. In that thread there is a video of a "pastor" making comments about homosexuals and death. I did not jump on the bandwagaon and insult the pastor, but instead asked for the entire clip, asked people to consider the source (the source where the video was posted openly said they were biased and made it a point to ridicule religions) and asked in what context his words were said.

In closing, this may be a "conspiracy" site, but that does not mean all members lack the ability to use the most basic cognitive skills to form logical assessments--this thread is proof of that.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


This post, specifically the following, "The true usual suspects that cabal of Internationalists don’t leave clues on the Internet and don’t conduct their business on the Internet and most of the clues that they might have left quickly go up in a puff of smoke or are buried in a dessert grave or in a swamp by men who’s lives and freedoms depend on destroying the evidence." is something many people should heed. I basically said the same thing in a recent "disinformation" thread, and many people will benefit from realizing this fact.

I'm not here to pick a side. I am here to say that an Ayatollah Khamenei does indeed exist. He is Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Anyway, just wanted to keep the facts, facts. Go on arguing the opinions, now.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

This post, specifically the following, "The true usual suspects that cabal of Internationalists don’t leave clues on the Internet and don’t conduct their business on the Internet and most of the clues that they might have left quickly go up in a puff of smoke or are buried in a dessert grave or in a swamp by men who’s lives and freedoms depend on destroying the evidence." is something many people should heed. I basically said the same thing in a recent "disinformation" thread, and many people will benefit from realizing this fact.

It is hysterically and tragically true my friend. At least once a day someone says “Have you got a link that proves that”, or “Do you have a link that disproves that” all I can do is scratch my head and wonder.

Do people really think that at the end of a carefully planned and coordinated black operation any of the conspirators sit down and go, “Wow I got to put this on my Facebook page”, or thank goodness I got a video clip of my crimes so I can upload it to YouTube because I know none of my friends are ever going to believe I did this!

The whole point in a conspiracy is to leave as little evidence as possible and to eliminate as much evidence as possible. Cutouts who then use cutouts who then use cutouts with cleaners that come in behind them often assassinating the low rung key players, and blackmailing the high rung key players to silence and secrecy all the while doing everything that they can to place the blame for any remaining evidence on a non-involved and unknowing dupe or patsy so if someone has to be hung out to dry it’s no one who knows anything that could compromise the key players.

It boggles the imagination that the stupefied on demand disaffected and uninvolved surfers of the Internet think there is some hidden website and link to it that will reveal all to them with proof that a Prosecuting Attorney would die for!

It is a crazy world my friend where common sense is becoming the rarest of commodities!

This Hassan shooting screams conspiracy but as usual it will never be uncovered because of those screaming for vengeance against those they are deceived into believing might somehow be remotely affiliated or responsible will drown out any rational pleas for real truth and discretion.

What a world.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
This post, specifically the following, "The true usual suspects that cabal of Internationalists don’t leave clues on the Internet and don’t conduct their business on the Internet and most of the clues that they might have left quickly go up in a puff of smoke or are buried in a dessert grave or in a swamp by men who’s lives and freedoms depend on destroying the evidence." is something many people should heed. I basically said the same thing in a recent "disinformation" thread, and many people will benefit from realizing this fact.

My apologies to those who are fair-minded and unreasonably got caught in my sweeping net of dismissals.

I just see the political wing of this forum increasing become a case of lunatics taking over the asylum. Once active member 'Dooper' has been banned, I'm told. I don't know for what reason, but his confrontational opinions backed by first-hand knowledge of military and international matters were a welcome antidote to all the uninformed armchair political jockeying that goes on here.

I've seen a lot of better informed regulars withdraw from active service on this site, while the veteran mudslingers march on without a pause.

It's become more about pushing and reinforcing aberrant agendas of late with little attention given to providing substantiation of claims and perspective.

It's all pretty harmless when stories of government cover-ups and hidden elites are propagated on UFO or archeology threads. Tales of chemtrails, Masonic world controllers, crop circles, assassin hit squads and other popular fantasies are always fun.

But when this wishful blending of actual fact and malign fiction starts being applied to current events and international affair - serious concerns arise. While there's little hope for enlightening the chronically deluded, there are kids out there that are susceptible to fantasies perpetuated by mean-spirited people with some heavy axes to grind.

Though I'm not American, I always admired the sense of unity and shared purpose that made the country special. It is discouraging seeing it undermined with such great volition by some pretty ugly characters.


M

[edit on 13-11-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael

But when this wishful blending of actual fact and malign fiction starts being applied to current events and international affair - serious concerns arise. While there's little hope for enlightening the chronically deluded, there are kids out there that are susceptible to fantasies perpetuated by mean-spirited people with some heavy axes to grind.

This is highly disingenuous Michael, the most ardent conspiracy theorists all advocate for basically the same thing, that crimes and potential crimes that appear to have occurred be thoroughly investigated and tried in a court of law, where citizens can truly be informed with solid concrete evidence of innocent and guilt.

Though our justice system is somewhat biased in favor to the rich and well connected for instance the heir of a New York City Real Estate Fortune who as an admitted closet transvestite admitted to killing a deceived would be lover in self defense, after being discovered to be a man in Texas of all places, and then hacked up his body after killing him and dumped him Galveston Bay, was amazingly enough found not guilty of all charges of murder and dismemberment by a Texas Jury which leads the nation in Death Row Convictions. Had he been a poor minority he would likely be on Death Row after admitting the details of the crime. As a billionaire and a well connected though admittedly deviant one he was found not guilty.

Still American Justice was served. Most conspiracy theorists simply argue that credible investigations and credible trials take place based on theories that they find as plausible as or more plausible than the official media version of events based on things like motive, opportunity who stood to gain and who stood to loose and following the money.

Already the politicians in Washington D.C. are screaming that Attorney General Eric Holder is endangering Americans by transferring Guantanamo Bay incarcerated 9-11 suspects to stand trial in New York City.

The truth is that Cuba a small Island Nation that has held them for nine years has never been attacked in an attempt to free them.

The truth is that people like Timothy McVey who carried out deadly politically motivated extremist acts were safely and securely held in Federal Super Max Prisons, given a fair day in Court, lawfully tried, convicted and then executed without any of the fringe militias he was aligned with ever attempting to free him.

It is that obscene notion that the Land of the Home of the Free and the Brave can’t even bravely face those it’s accused of perpetrating heinous crimes that is particularly galling to conspiracy theorists especially when it’s the same politicians who rushed to go to war and profited wildly off of it to the tax-payer’s detriment by claiming that they had uncovered the facts even though a number of congress people and senators used expletives in describing some of the information that the Bush Administration forced them to swallow under ‘national security secrecy’.

What intelligent reasonable person wouldn’t be suspicious that Bin Laden has never been charged for these alleged crimes when we place foreign born and operating narcotics kingpins on the FBI’s ten most wanted list with official charges against them routinely?

What intelligent reasonable person wouldn’t be suspicious that a jet plane that detonated on impact in the center of a high rise and was instantly engulfed in flame and then the building subsequently within an hour collapsed pulverizing everything in it to fine minute dust but one of the alleged hijacker’s passports that conveniently landed on top of thousands of tons of rubble unscathed? Who in fact could believe such an improbability?

That becomes all the more improbable when not only do the politicians and media who condemned these men for crimes never proven in a court of law believe that the strongest and most powerful military power on the earth is not secure enough to try five alleged masterminds of the crime as if they represent some mortal danger to our security brought here in shackles and handcuffs ringed by armed U.S. Marshalls and military escorts to be placed in a super maximum security prison no one has ever escaped from where they are held in absolute solitary isolation and video monitored 24 hours a day?

The only people who could possible espouse such nonsense would be the people who have the very most to loose should the truth be known.

Conspiracy theorists simply want to know the truth.

Conspirators always desperately want to hide it.

A desperate story, desperate actions, desperate excuses all add up to one thing when desperate people decry those who recognize these things for what they truly are…a conspiracy.

Listening to you a junior prosecutor could try these cases with their eyes closed and get convictions based on all this imaginary and convenient evidence.

The reality is the only evidence is desperately enforced politically correct public opinion.

The reality is the real conspiracy behind 9-11 is still on-going, and the people who have truly attacked and harmed American people, be they Americans, Israelis, Arabs, Asians, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Communists, Fascists, or all the above should be rooted out and held to account and no plausible theory should be eliminated before the actual constitutional court process that establishes guilt or innocence takes place.

“The that’s just crazy talk” always emanates from the conspirators and those that they desperately try to intimidate and fool and manipulate into accepting anything but the truth being vetted in a proper forum.

Personally I don’t sense an agitated or offended man, I sense one terrified of the consequences of the truth, for the reality is any truth loving person would not eliminate or exclude any stone or any thing of relevance until a Court rules and establishes the truth.

You are no different than the rest of us Michael as you are promoting an unproven theory just like the rest of us.

Do you have a Court Ruling on who carried out 9-11?

You sure don’t, so why don’t you do yourself a favor and stop trying to pretend to be better than the conspiracy theorists that you yourself are very much one of.

Thanks my friend!



[edit on 13/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by mmiichael
It's become more about pushing and reinforcing aberrant agendas of late with little attention given to providing substantiation of claims and perspective

That sums up your posts perfectly. You want to go on a crusade against all Muslims, but all you can reference to support you are lone nuts in isolated cases.

Yet you fail to make the distinction between isolated extremists, and about 1/5 of the world's entire population -- all Muslim.

No one wants to hear your hate here. All your hateful buddies don't post here anymore because no one wanted to hear all their hate, either, and that's probably why so-and-so was banned. Military nuts kill people for a living. That is not what I consider a healthy individual. No one cares what you call your hate or how you justify it to yourself. It's obvious to us what it is, and it's racist hate. You can take it somewhere else, too, for all I care.

reply to post by mmiichael

Apology accepted.
We tried. There will never cease to be those who will not have cranial capacity.
God Bless America
Be safe.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Yet you fail to make the distinction between isolated extremists, and about 1/5 of the world's entire population -- all Muslim.

No one wants to hear your hate here. All your hateful buddies don't post here anymore because no one wanted to hear all their hate, either, and that's probably why so-and-so was banned. Military nuts kill people for a living. That is not what I consider a healthy individual. No one cares what you call your hate or how you justify it to yourself. It's obvious to us what it is, and it's racist hate. You can take it somewhere else, too, for all I care.

Your claim is absolute BS. Anyone reading my posts will see that.

What I do hate is seeing people wallowing in idiocy and narcissism.

No shortage of that from the aspiring superstars of the cultural back alleyways.

Originally posted by Night Watchman

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Perhaps one day you will be brought to trial and your jury will be your enemies.
Ah!, maybe they will skip the trial.
There is something fundamentally indecent about folk that blabber---
GUILTY until proven INNOCENT, Really indecent,ugly, sick.

.

Others wish to grasp onto the first, confused reports in the immediate aftermath of an horrific shooting and ignore the actual eyewitness reports.

Based on the reports of EVERY SINGLE witness I have seen interviewed, this scum was the cold blooded murderer. He will have his day in court and his fair trial. Just as it should be.

That doesn't stop intelligent people from developing informed opinions in the meantime.

So you are telling us that this is your informed intellectual opinion.
I quote you here from a previous post


"Insane or not insane, this animal will fry. I still say we should feed his remains to wild animals.

I don't think we should take up the space for a burial plot.

My hope is that he dies a public and slowly painful death. "


Sounds like Harvard. Tel Aviv to me.