At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by Aggie Man
It just occurred to me....

What were civilian LEO doing at a military base? So the military has a problem...call the locals in? What gives? On a base full of trained soldiers...they go on lock down and let the police handle it...why?

The LEO killed in the line of duty today is a HERO!!! BUT, should he have even been there?

Both MPs and LEOs operate on military installations. Law Enforcement has jurisdiction on most installations. It's very common..

Actually, from my experience, LEOs often do most of the arrests, traffic violations, etc. and they usually just work in tandem with MPs. It's a logistical/awareness issue.

Originally posted by brill

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

"A lot of troops commit suicide"? No, more like a small few commit suicide. We have over a Million personnel in our Armed Forces, so you need to keep things in perspective.

Not too many in the MIL just "SNAP", to the contrary, they happen to be the most stable grouping of people I've ever known. War affects everyone differently though, and even the hardiest of the bunch will forever feel its lingering touch. That doesn't mean that such individuals are unstable though.

On the contrary, from articles over the past few weeks the numbers indicate near record levels of US troop suicides. It appears you are basing your opinion on personal sentiments which is fine but the numbers tell otherwise. Everyone has a breaking point, some just cross the line sooner than others. Is that the case here....perhaps, but all the facts haven't been established. Condolences to the families of those impacted, tragic. War is hell.

src

brill

I am certain that there are suicides, but from my personal view, it's a small number relative to the overall number and size of our Military. I do not mean to belittle the issue, because it does need to be addressed, but I do not want people to simply assume that Military personnel are jumping off bridges left and right, or that they are somehow by-in-large unstable people.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by jerico65

 

You've obviously NEVER read the Koran and you obviously know NOTHING about Sharia law if you think the west, London, and the Vatican are not at war with Islam. Wow! You're naivety and ignorance on Islam is revealing. Manifest destiny in the eye of western culture and western governments is alive and well. It never died.

Your naivety and ignorance of Islam is the revealing one. Neither, I suspect, have you ever read a Qur'an. Where does it say in the Qur'an that "the west","London", and "the Vatican" are at war with Islam? Sura and verse, please. If I must, I can point out sura and verse to YOU, where the Qur'an says Islam is at war with those entities, in a general sort of way. Not the other way 'round.

Now with that said, how does that have a bearing on the current tragedy, one way or another? If it were as you say, don't you think it would have gone the other way 'round, with western soldiers attacking an innocent muslim within their ranks, rather than the way it shook down? Trying to turn this into a religious war in the way you are going about it is juvenile and illogical. The "western" forces are multi-religional, it's the muslims on the other side of the equation who are more or less (usually less) religiously monolithic.

If it's a "religious war", it's only the extremist muslims who are doing it for religion. Their opposite numbers can't get their heads together on one religion. Meanwhile, other muslims are getting along with the rest of us just fine.

Hence, you are defeating your own argument, and should quit while you're ahead.

Just mourn the dead. All of them.

[edit on 2009/11/5 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

Originally posted by brill

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

"A lot of troops commit suicide"? No, more like a small few commit suicide. We have over a Million personnel in our Armed Forces, so you need to keep things in perspective.

Not too many in the MIL just "SNAP", to the contrary, they happen to be the most stable grouping of people I've ever known. War affects everyone differently though, and even the hardiest of the bunch will forever feel its lingering touch. That doesn't mean that such individuals are unstable though.

On the contrary, from articles over the past few weeks the numbers indicate near record levels of US troop suicides. It appears you are basing your opinion on personal sentiments which is fine but the numbers tell otherwise. Everyone has a breaking point, some just cross the line sooner than others. Is that the case here....perhaps, but all the facts haven't been established. Condolences to the families of those impacted, tragic. War is hell.

src

brill

I am certain that there are suicides, but from my personal view, it's a small number relative to the overall number and size of our Military. I do not mean to belittle the issue, because it does need to be addressed, but I do not want people to simply assume that Military personnel are jumping off bridges left and right, or that they are somehow by-in-large unstable people.

Yes, there is a huge increase in troop suicides lately. They're making us all go to these stupid suicide prevention classes every month, seems like. Perhaps they should look into alternatives...

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Most of us prior military know that we dont target muslims, we just want the extremist 6feet under.

Well that may be but is that what is happening?
There have been MANY who often said their job was to shoot anything in the vicinity of a given event like an explosion or gunfire

furthermore, please visit this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

thirdly what is an insurgent?
right now it's people who oppose foreign invasions
an insurgent is basically a texan shooting a home intruder
but as we all know the media is using insurgent and terroist intergancheably

My point is that we can't jump to conclusions like that
And although I applaud your post, because it is one the very better ones in this thread, I disagree somewhat, but overall you may be right on some of your points.

he may very well be anti-war
I really await the report on the motive of the murderer

And I think bases should be better protected
As far as he is concerned, must have thought it was way too easy that achieve that body count
I know that may sound callous, but... how about some friggin securty AT A BASE?

He is dead or on the lose?

[edit on 5-11-2009 by ModernAcademia]

Originally posted by SyphonX

Originally posted by Aggie Man
It just occurred to me....

What were civilian LEO doing at a military base? So the military has a problem...call the locals in? What gives? On a base full of trained soldiers...they go on lock down and let the police handle it...why?

The LEO killed in the line of duty today is a HERO!!! BUT, should he have even been there?

Both MPs and LEOs operate on military installations. Law Enforcement has jurisdiction on most installations. It's very common..

Actually, from my experience, LEOs often do most of the arrests, traffic violations, etc. and they usually just work in tandem with MPs. It's a logistical/awareness issue.

Military-side CID do not have arrest powers. It's only civilian CID officers that do. I'm not sure about MPs, though. I do know that it's one of the reasons I decided not to MOS into that job.

reply to post by Wildbob77


Your right, problem with news coming at during the heat of the moment is that it is usualy wrong. The situation is chaotic, no one really knows what is going on yet. The numbers could go up or down. They should have more information by tomorrow.

I see a lot of conjecture being thrown around this thread. You have people saying it was a great thing, people saying it was a deplorable thing. You have people saying he's deranged, people saying he's a terrorist. Perhaps we should take this step by step, no?

Number One: For all of you westerners who like to live in your fantasy world where Christianity (which undoubtedly spawns it's share of evil) is the worst of the Abrahamic plague, you need to expand your horizons. Odd, you never hear about Christian extremists blowing up markets loaded with innocent civilians. Christians do their own lion's share of idiotic stuff (shooting innocent abortion doctors and all), but the mass murder of women and children isn't really at the top of the list at the moment.

Number Two: The man's name is Nidal Malik Hasan. It isn't Jim Bob O'Bannon. If you're going to point your finger at people who take his theology and descent in to question on a conspiracy website, I would recommend you take a step back and look at your own bias. Islamic jihadis seem to like attacking (not getting into the debate as to whether it's warranted or unwarranted) Americans. Don't know how the average American would ever formulate that hypothesis, though. Oh wait; I forgot about September 11th, 2001 for a second there.

Number 3: A jihadi who has infiltrated the army doesn't have to be in a "sleeper cell" to kill his unaware comrades. Hell, he doesn't even need to be an American Muslim soldier! Hereis a link to an incident of a Muslim American civilian murdering two hapless soldiers in Arkansas. Or this incident maybe, where a Muslim American soldier killed two of his fellow compatriots with a grenade. Pfft, and people think this event at Fort Hood could be terror related? Puh-lease.

On a less sarcastic note, I'll reiterate what i said at the beginning of my post. Chill out. Wait until we have all of the facts before you make your own judgment. If you think the posters that are expressing their feelings that they believe this event is terror related are wrong, you're just as foolish as those that would call you moronic for thinking this event could be something more sinister. Let's see where this goes, shall we?

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
I am certain that there are suicides, but from my personal view, it's a small number relative to the overall number and size of our Military..

The Army suicide rate exceeds the general populace.

Suicide Toll Fuels Worry That Army Is Strained WSJ

The Army hit a grim milestone last year when the suicide rate exceeded that of the general population for the first time: 20.2 per 100,000 people in the military, compared with the civilian rate of 19.5 per 100,000. The Army's suicide rate was 12.7 per 100,000 in 2005, 15.3 in 2006 and 16.8 in 2007.

As for this Hasan character, it appears to he had a psychotic snap, which may indicate he was addicted to meth or go-pills.

Originally posted by SyphonX

Originally posted by Aggie Man
It just occurred to me....

What were civilian LEO doing at a military base? So the military has a problem...call the locals in? What gives? On a base full of trained soldiers...they go on lock down and let the police handle it...why?

The LEO killed in the line of duty today is a HERO!!! BUT, should he have even been there?

Both MPs and LEOs operate on military installations. Law Enforcement has jurisdiction on most installations. It's very common..

Actually, from my experience, LEOs often do most of the arrests, traffic violations, etc. and they usually just work in tandem with MPs. It's a logistical/awareness issue.

The only Civilian LEO's with jurisdiction on MIL Installations are DOD employed, or they have Federal Status and have been given permission to operate there by the Base Commander. Local LEOs, Including City, County, State, and so forth, have absolutely no jurisdiction on Federal Installations. Obviously in an emergency, such as what occurred at Ft. Hood, they can be brought on to assist with an issue, but it is completely up to the discretion of the Base Commander.

The Civilian LEO involved at Ft. Hood (Who was killed in the line of duty) was DOD, not Local.

The FBI will also assist with the Branch-Specific Investigative Service when requested to do so (The FBI's area of interest, and their expertise, does in fact largely involve Federal Installations above all else).

One question I do have however, for anyone who has any recent experience at Ft. Hood, is to whether or not they still use civilian guards at the gates there? I noticed an increase in this many years ago at Norfolk, and I truly detest it. The Civilian Sentinels act like complete slumps, they don't even stand at approach, and they never salute. When I was at Key West Naval Air Station recently however, I was glad to finally witness USN SP manning the gates and base grounds again. I noticed the same at a few other Forts, but I have no idea what the situation is at Ft. Hood.

Too bad this piece of CRAP Major Nidal Malik Hasan was killed by one of our brave soldiers. Just another case of a Muslim TERRORIST in our midst.
Does anyone else recall the Muslim TERRORIST soldier that killed several of his fellow soldiers at the beginning of the IRAQ invasion.
Too bad there were reporters imbedded with that unit. It would have been much better to allow a little battle-field justice to take its course. I'd bet that no-one can tell me what happened to that guy.

Read my lips: ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORIST!!!

I am nearly cross-eyed from the first 20 pages so forgive if someone posted the following link. It is pretty informative as to who this butcher was and his history from a person who knew him.

Link to video.

If I gathered right he was a convert to Islam who became more and more anti-American as time went on.

Horrible they did not deal with him before he went on a killing spree. Sounds like they dropped the ball on this one.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
One question I do have however, for anyone who has any recent experience at Ft. Hood, is to whether or not they still use civilian guards at the gates there? I noticed an increase in this many years ago at Norfolk, and I truly detest it. The Civilian Sentinels act like complete slumps, they don't even stand at approach, and they never salute. When I was at Key West Naval Air Station recently however, I was glad to finally witness USN SP manning the gates and base grounds again. I noticed the same at a few other Forts, but I have no idea what the situation is at Ft. Hood.

No idea about Hood, but the past 5 Army installations I've been to have all switched to civilian guards (Wackenhut, actually). I have found it disconcerting, especially when they only seem to glance at our ID and DoD permit, and wave us on. I think we're getting lulled into a false sense of security, and it needs to stop.

Originally posted by Regenmacher

As for this Hasan character, it appears to he had a psychotic snap, which may indicate he was addicted to meth or go-pills.

Watch the interview I linked above and you will find this was a man who converted to Islam and has been getting more radical over time. The Army should have done something about him sooner.

Military officials say the suspected shooter at Fort Hood was a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for six years before being transferred to the Texas base in July.

The officials had access to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's military record. They said he received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because military records are confidential.

The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He was 39 years old.

He is a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.


Read more at: www.huffingtonpost.com...&cp

There was no other shooters just a lone gunman.
There was no other shooters just bad media reporting

This guy after the comments he had made to other officers should have had a psych evaluation done on him.

Not that it would have done any good being that he was a psychiatrist and would have known all the right answers to give.

The strange thing was he was not a combat veteran and never had been in a war zone so that rules out PTSD.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

I am certain that there are suicides, but from my personal view, it's a small number relative to the overall number and size of our Military. I do not mean to belittle the issue, because it does need to be addressed, but I do not want people to simply assume that Military personnel are jumping off bridges left and right, or that they are somehow by-in-large unstable people.

updated 6:17 p.m. EDT, Wed May 27, 2009
By Richard Allen Greene
CNN

(CNN) -- A major United States military post is shutting down for three days following a rash of suicides, the post announced

Fort Campbell, home of the Army's 101st Airborne Division, is holding a three-day "suicide stand-down training event" starting Wednesday -- the second one it has held this year, a post spokeswoman told CNN.

At least 11 deaths of Fort Campbell soldiers this year are confirmed or suspected suicides, spokeswoman Kelly Tyler said. That's out of 64 confirmed or suspected suicides in the entire Army, according to official statistics. At that rate, the Army is on pace for a record number of suicides this year.

The post commander, Brig. Gen. Stephen Townsend, addressed all 19,000 soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division on Wednesday, Tyler said

CNN.COM

This is no little problem sir. Special Forces Bases closing down for 3 days for suicide awareness reasons? This article was from May and it was the second time the base shut down this year alone to deal with the militaries suicide difficulties.

I posted it here on breaking news 0 flags and 4 replies!

Army Post Shuts Down for Anti-Suicide Event

We are neglecting our troops and sadly while the evidence of the problem has been mounting it takes something tragic and horrific to happen before people notice or care.

This is not a small problem, it's the cost of over taxing our all volunteer army in conflicts that are going on a decade that our nation could have mobilized easily with to deal with overwhelming force and been done with years ago.



[edit on 5/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

"All" Muslims are NOT terrorists.

That is a fact.

I will sound like the old lady I am for a moment....

Have good manners. "ALL" is a very big word.....please be nice.

Originally posted by ANNED
He is a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997

Did anyone else get a little twinge when they read "Virginia Tech"?

DARPA - Virgina Tech - Seung-Hui Cho ...and now Malik Nadal Hasan?

reply to post by ANNED


Once again a person who enjoyed a very privileged life thanks to our system who turned against the system he bled for anything he could get out of it. From this you posted and the interview on the link I posted, who he is is pretty clear. I wonder which Mosque he attended and if its leadership was involved in turning him?

Serious question for everyone if a Muslim converted to Christianity and within a short period of being a Christian attacked a Islamic Nation's military base?

Would that be Christianity causing him to do that?

I fear many people are playing into the hands here of manipulation.

Think about it.