reply to post by Mr Headshot
Speaking as a Choctaw, the last thing I want is buffalo and swamps. I want good schools on the rez (Oklahoma or Missisippi, either is good, or better
yet both!) I want the Feds to stop cramming their ATF / DEA noses up our asses when we want to grow tobacco, make beer, or grow hemp for trade. I want
to see all the nations' economies disentangle from the casino and go into active production and utilization of resources - and I want the US
government to recognize native rights to those resources. I want tribal leadership to be democratic rather than nepotistic to make all this as
efficient as possible.
If I had my way, those treaties would be renegotiated. Why? Because a lot of them promise things like use of game or timber for silly terms like "as
long as the grass may grow". The majority of the broken treaties were drawn up to screw people who didn't have lawyers in the first place, after
all. And it would be renegotiated in the mechanisms of the United Nations, because it's been shown time and again that even in its modern dealings
with indians, the US government can't be trusted any further than you can throw a SWAT van.
And lastly? I want white people to realize we're people, and not sights to see on vacation.
Obama pledge to Native Americans , page 4
privacy
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 11:54 PM by ohsnaptruth
Originally posted by Bored To Tears
reply to post by Resinveins
Its been a little over a hundred years now, maybe its time for Native Americans to stop blaming the government for their problems.
uh.. you realise this is their land.
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 11:54 PM by ohsnaptruth
Originally posted by Bored To Tears
reply to post by Resinveins
Its been a little over a hundred years now, maybe its time for Native Americans to stop blaming the government for their problems.
uh.. you realise this is their land.
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 11:59 PM by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by ohsnaptruth
When it comes to ATS, the only subject that draws out more ignorance and latent racism than Native Americna topics, is topics about Arabs. He doesn't realize this is our land, he won't realize this is our land, and you're wasting your precious time pointing it out to him. He, like so many others, has it in his head that because his people came over from Europe and enjoyed the bounty of stolen and concentrated wealth and "made it good" that the same people his ancestors participated in the oppression of, whether directly or indirectly, should be able to pick themselves out from under the bus and do just as well for themselves.
You notice he's not telling white people in Mugabe's Zimbabwe or Morales' Bolivia to shut the hell up and stop blaming the government.
When it comes to ATS, the only subject that draws out more ignorance and latent racism than Native Americna topics, is topics about Arabs. He doesn't realize this is our land, he won't realize this is our land, and you're wasting your precious time pointing it out to him. He, like so many others, has it in his head that because his people came over from Europe and enjoyed the bounty of stolen and concentrated wealth and "made it good" that the same people his ancestors participated in the oppression of, whether directly or indirectly, should be able to pick themselves out from under the bus and do just as well for themselves.
You notice he's not telling white people in Mugabe's Zimbabwe or Morales' Bolivia to shut the hell up and stop blaming the government.
reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 12:53 AM by suthainn
reply to post by Bored To Tears
handouts, stealing all that you say? im wondering, lets see......jeep cherokee, winabegos, washington redskins, apache helicopters, chinook helicopters, tomahawk missles, countless states, cities, streets and even redneck kids called "Cheyenne or "Dakota" so many many words taken from us and what did we get? nothing......no honor, no recognition, just a mere bobble for people to mock or poke at. You have something special? seems to be your wallet as much as you talk about it, How would you feel if people touched it every time you walked by? Wearing our traditional regalia and celebrating at our dances we get touched and teased all the time, OUR religion, OUR land.....Obama wont do anything to make a change for us because he cant, people like you wouldnt allow it. You are the type to buy a piss poor version of a dreamcatcher and hang it in your truck, but spit out the words of how you detest us.....dont touch your wallet? get off our property.....
handouts, stealing all that you say? im wondering, lets see......jeep cherokee, winabegos, washington redskins, apache helicopters, chinook helicopters, tomahawk missles, countless states, cities, streets and even redneck kids called "Cheyenne or "Dakota" so many many words taken from us and what did we get? nothing......no honor, no recognition, just a mere bobble for people to mock or poke at. You have something special? seems to be your wallet as much as you talk about it, How would you feel if people touched it every time you walked by? Wearing our traditional regalia and celebrating at our dances we get touched and teased all the time, OUR religion, OUR land.....Obama wont do anything to make a change for us because he cant, people like you wouldnt allow it. You are the type to buy a piss poor version of a dreamcatcher and hang it in your truck, but spit out the words of how you detest us.....dont touch your wallet? get off our property.....
reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 01:26 AM by dooper
reply to post by LordBucket
I too, am of mixed blood, Cherokee.
I am very proud of my Cherokee blood, and my brother in combat was Yaqui. It is all true enough that the Native Americans, regardless of tribe, truly received the ****ty end of the stick.
One thing that breaks my heart is that those of us with blood are discounted outright. My ancestry was not of my choice, and no one asked me. Even still, I'm very proud of all my ancestors.
On many lands, I see a lack of pride. Of all people, some of the most noble were Native Americans.
Now. About the white man stealing lands. Anywhere you look, even here in the territorial US, yes. The White man ran Native Americans off their land.
Who ran off those who were here before. Who ran off the Old Ones. On and on, and on. Even during the eighteenth and nineteenth century, tribal warfare dominated Native iAmerican societies.
It's just that the white man was the most efficient.
It may be best to work together, and emulate the Romans. They took the better ideas of others and made them their own - thus their success.
Pride. While it can be eroded over time, it's never completely lost. Tribal leaders could pool resources and see that their young get education - all they can handle.
The truth is, anyone in the US can get all the education they want - but they have to WANT it! There are grants. There are scholarships. There are student loans. There are sponsorships.
It's not easy, but by God, it's available. Emphasis should be not on how crappy a deal we got in years past, but what advances we are going to make from this moment on.
Good for Obama. It may be an empty gesture, but that's about the first damned thing he's done that I can applaud.
Seek well-thought out requests. Long-term requests.
Need better teachers? Ones that press a student to be much better than their counterparts? Seek industry. Industry will send some of their top mathemeticians, engineers, geologists, and scientists on loan to teach. Press and invite retired engineers, mathemeticians, and retired university professors.
But the community has to get behind the effort and make damned certain that the kids are encouraged at home and from the elders.
There is opportunity. But if we wait for it to fall on our heads, it will never come, and all you can expect is a few raindrops.
Hold Obama's feet to the fire. Seek help from big business. Start turning out engineering students, medical students, chemical engineers, RN's, and administrators.
But you must do so with a plan and a fire in your heart.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step . . .
Not bitterness, or even expectation.
But with determination followed by action.
[edit on 6-11-2009 by dooper]
I too, am of mixed blood, Cherokee.
I am very proud of my Cherokee blood, and my brother in combat was Yaqui. It is all true enough that the Native Americans, regardless of tribe, truly received the ****ty end of the stick.
One thing that breaks my heart is that those of us with blood are discounted outright. My ancestry was not of my choice, and no one asked me. Even still, I'm very proud of all my ancestors.
On many lands, I see a lack of pride. Of all people, some of the most noble were Native Americans.
Now. About the white man stealing lands. Anywhere you look, even here in the territorial US, yes. The White man ran Native Americans off their land.
Who ran off those who were here before. Who ran off the Old Ones. On and on, and on. Even during the eighteenth and nineteenth century, tribal warfare dominated Native iAmerican societies.
It's just that the white man was the most efficient.
It may be best to work together, and emulate the Romans. They took the better ideas of others and made them their own - thus their success.
Pride. While it can be eroded over time, it's never completely lost. Tribal leaders could pool resources and see that their young get education - all they can handle.
The truth is, anyone in the US can get all the education they want - but they have to WANT it! There are grants. There are scholarships. There are student loans. There are sponsorships.
It's not easy, but by God, it's available. Emphasis should be not on how crappy a deal we got in years past, but what advances we are going to make from this moment on.
Good for Obama. It may be an empty gesture, but that's about the first damned thing he's done that I can applaud.
Seek well-thought out requests. Long-term requests.
Need better teachers? Ones that press a student to be much better than their counterparts? Seek industry. Industry will send some of their top mathemeticians, engineers, geologists, and scientists on loan to teach. Press and invite retired engineers, mathemeticians, and retired university professors.
But the community has to get behind the effort and make damned certain that the kids are encouraged at home and from the elders.
There is opportunity. But if we wait for it to fall on our heads, it will never come, and all you can expect is a few raindrops.
Hold Obama's feet to the fire. Seek help from big business. Start turning out engineering students, medical students, chemical engineers, RN's, and administrators.
But you must do so with a plan and a fire in your heart.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step . . .
Not bitterness, or even expectation.
But with determination followed by action.
[edit on 6-11-2009 by dooper]
reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 01:52 AM by apacheman
reply to post by LordBucket
Where would the Jews be if they had that attitude? For sure not in Israel.
It has merely been a century or so and already you give up?
A lot of people claim to be of this tribe or that, but I see only that they are not practicing members or citizens of their nation. To be of the Choctaw, the Cherokee, or any other tribe MUST mean that you put your tribe, your nation first; that first you are that, then you are American. If you are truly a member of your tribe and not merely of tribal descent, then you must work for and believe in the eventual freedom of your people.
The way forward is difficult and long, yes. The Americans will tell you over and over to be proud of your heritage but forget it and subsitute their culture for your own. Far too many of our people have listened to and been seduced by that empty siren song. Each of us who says the past is lost has become a tool of the invader to be used against their own people. Each of us who forgets the Creator and accepts Christianity instead weakens our spirit and makes the way more difficult.
Some parts of the past are indeed lost and gone forever, but much remains within us. Once upon a time I despaired of having lost the old knowledge and ways of being: ripped from us with each death, each killing of an elder before they could pass it on. But then while hiking in the hills one day it came to me that the land still held itself close to us who would listen, and the old knowings were still there, that each time contains within it the necessary rituals and ways to (power {not the kind you're thinking of}). I am sorry for you who ally yourselves solely with the Americans, and forget who you really are. They will never, ever, accept you as an equal, or allow you to be anything more than ersatz Anglo.
That is not enough for me.
I am Chiricahua, I am Indeh...Apache, I am Native. I choose to work for the freedom and independence of my people and all First Nations. I will never, ever give up.
Where would the Jews be if they had that attitude? For sure not in Israel.
It has merely been a century or so and already you give up?
A lot of people claim to be of this tribe or that, but I see only that they are not practicing members or citizens of their nation. To be of the Choctaw, the Cherokee, or any other tribe MUST mean that you put your tribe, your nation first; that first you are that, then you are American. If you are truly a member of your tribe and not merely of tribal descent, then you must work for and believe in the eventual freedom of your people.
The way forward is difficult and long, yes. The Americans will tell you over and over to be proud of your heritage but forget it and subsitute their culture for your own. Far too many of our people have listened to and been seduced by that empty siren song. Each of us who says the past is lost has become a tool of the invader to be used against their own people. Each of us who forgets the Creator and accepts Christianity instead weakens our spirit and makes the way more difficult.
Some parts of the past are indeed lost and gone forever, but much remains within us. Once upon a time I despaired of having lost the old knowledge and ways of being: ripped from us with each death, each killing of an elder before they could pass it on. But then while hiking in the hills one day it came to me that the land still held itself close to us who would listen, and the old knowings were still there, that each time contains within it the necessary rituals and ways to (power {not the kind you're thinking of}). I am sorry for you who ally yourselves solely with the Americans, and forget who you really are. They will never, ever, accept you as an equal, or allow you to be anything more than ersatz Anglo.
That is not enough for me.
I am Chiricahua, I am Indeh...Apache, I am Native. I choose to work for the freedom and independence of my people and all First Nations. I will never, ever give up.
reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 06:34 AM by pai mei
"In the fall of 1970, a magazine called La Raza, one of the countless local publications coming out of the movements of those years to supply
information ignored in the regular media, told about the Pit River Indians of northern California.
Sixty Pit Indians occupied land they said belonged to them; they defied the Forest Services when ordered to leave. One of them, Darryl B. Wilson, later recalled: "As the flames danced orange making the trees come to life, and the cold creeped out of the darkness to challenge the speaking fire, and our breath came in small clouds, we spoke." They asked the government by what treaty it claimed the land. It could point to none. They cited a federal statute (25 USCA 194) that where there was a land dispute between Indian and white "the burden of proof falls on the white man."
They had built a quonset hut, and the marshals told them it was ugly and ruined the landscape. Wilson wrote later:
The whole world is rotting. The water is poisoned, trie air polluted, the politics deformed, the land gutted, the forest pillaged, the shores ruined, the towns burned, the lives of the people destroyed . .. and the federals spent the best part of October trying to tell us the quonset hut was "ugly"!
To us it was beautiful. It was the beginning of our school. The meeting place. Home for our homeless. A sanctuary for those needing rest. Our church. Our headquarters. Our business office. Our symbol of approaching freedom. And it still stands.
It was also the center for the reviving of our stricken, diluted and separated culture. Our beginning. It was our sun rising on a clear spring day when the sky holds no clouds. It was a good and pure thing for our heart to look upon. That small place on earth. Our place.
But 150 marshals came, with machine guns, shotguns, rifles, pistols, riot sticks, Mace, dogs, chains, manacles. "The old people were frightened. The young questioned bravery. The small children were like a deer that has been shot by the thunder stick. Hearts beat fast as though a race was just run in the heat of summer." The marshals began swinging their riot sacks, and blood started flowing. Wilson grabbed one marshal's club, was thrown down, manacled, and while lying face down on the ground was struck behind the head several times. A sixtysix- year-old man was beaten into unconsciousness. A white reporter was arrested, his wife beaten. They were all thrown into trucks and taken away, charged with assaulting state and federal officers and cutting trees - but not with trespassing, which might have brought into question the ownership of the land."
A People's History of the United States
[edit on 6-11-2009 by pai mei]
Sixty Pit Indians occupied land they said belonged to them; they defied the Forest Services when ordered to leave. One of them, Darryl B. Wilson, later recalled: "As the flames danced orange making the trees come to life, and the cold creeped out of the darkness to challenge the speaking fire, and our breath came in small clouds, we spoke." They asked the government by what treaty it claimed the land. It could point to none. They cited a federal statute (25 USCA 194) that where there was a land dispute between Indian and white "the burden of proof falls on the white man."
They had built a quonset hut, and the marshals told them it was ugly and ruined the landscape. Wilson wrote later:
The whole world is rotting. The water is poisoned, trie air polluted, the politics deformed, the land gutted, the forest pillaged, the shores ruined, the towns burned, the lives of the people destroyed . .. and the federals spent the best part of October trying to tell us the quonset hut was "ugly"!
To us it was beautiful. It was the beginning of our school. The meeting place. Home for our homeless. A sanctuary for those needing rest. Our church. Our headquarters. Our business office. Our symbol of approaching freedom. And it still stands.
It was also the center for the reviving of our stricken, diluted and separated culture. Our beginning. It was our sun rising on a clear spring day when the sky holds no clouds. It was a good and pure thing for our heart to look upon. That small place on earth. Our place.
But 150 marshals came, with machine guns, shotguns, rifles, pistols, riot sticks, Mace, dogs, chains, manacles. "The old people were frightened. The young questioned bravery. The small children were like a deer that has been shot by the thunder stick. Hearts beat fast as though a race was just run in the heat of summer." The marshals began swinging their riot sacks, and blood started flowing. Wilson grabbed one marshal's club, was thrown down, manacled, and while lying face down on the ground was struck behind the head several times. A sixtysix- year-old man was beaten into unconsciousness. A white reporter was arrested, his wife beaten. They were all thrown into trucks and taken away, charged with assaulting state and federal officers and cutting trees - but not with trespassing, which might have brought into question the ownership of the land."
A People's History of the United States
[edit on 6-11-2009 by pai mei]
reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 09:16 AM by Mr Headshot
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
I see.
I'm Comanche, I don't usually identify with it because it's pretty negligable (1/32) but I've grown up around other comanches. I've seen that most of the time they want an identity, something real and not cheap.
I see.
I'm Comanche, I don't usually identify with it because it's pretty negligable (1/32) but I've grown up around other comanches. I've seen that most of the time they want an identity, something real and not cheap.
reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 12:53 PM by nixie_nox
reply to post by apacheman
No one is denying there are still travesties going on. And all is well and hunky dory.
I was simply resonding to the fact that Obama can't be accused of absolutely doing nothing.
Argue with me if you wish, but this sounds a little more then talk.
In fact, I came across information that I didn't even know about other projects:
I lived in Arizona. I know that things are skewed. And what seems odd to us on the east coast is how there is still rampant discrimination. There is a long list of things that need to be fixed.
No one is denying there are still travesties going on. And all is well and hunky dory.
I was simply resonding to the fact that Obama can't be accused of absolutely doing nothing.
The purposes of the ARRA are, among others, to quickly and prudently commence activities which preserve and create jobs, promote economic recovery, and to invest in infrastructure by providing long-term economic benefits. Recovery Act funding must be obligated by Sept. 30, 2010.
Secretary Salazar has committed to quick and responsible implementation of the $3 billion in recovery funds, which will be used by the Department of the Interior and its agencies. Secretary Salazar has pledged unprecedented levels of transparency and accountability in the implementation of the Department of the Interior's economic recovery projects. The public will be able to follow the progress of each project on www.recovery.gov and on www.interior.gov/recovery.
Argue with me if you wish, but this sounds a little more then talk.
In fact, I came across information that I didn't even know about other projects:
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The Bureau of Reclamation, an agency of The Department of the Interior, has awarded $41.8 million under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) for several Tribal water projects in North Dakota and South Dakota.
The projects will be in the Oglala Sioux Tribe; Lower Brule Sioux Tribe; Three Affiliated Tribes of North Dakota and Standing Rock Sioux Tribe communities.
"The nearly $42 million investment of recovery funds made by the Department of the Interior through President Obama's economic recovery plan will facilitate getting clean water to our Nation's first people," said Reclamation's Commissioner Michael L. Connor.
I lived in Arizona. I know that things are skewed. And what seems odd to us on the east coast is how there is still rampant discrimination. There is a long list of things that need to be fixed.
reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 02:46 PM by CoffinFeeder
reply to post by whaaa
this is obama we're talking about here, and liberals in general.
his vow to not forget them will likely amount to 'how can I tax this untapped resource, and how can i get my hand son their moneys?'
this is obama we're talking about here, and liberals in general.
his vow to not forget them will likely amount to 'how can I tax this untapped resource, and how can i get my hand son their moneys?'
reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 01:52 PM by nenothtu
Originally posted by ohioriver
Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by whaaa
As a Cherokee there is no way to pay back to Us what was stolen, they only way is t omake sure our future generations have access to GOOD education, GOOD health care and GOOD Jobs.
It is not the taxpayers responsibility to provide jobs, healthcare, nor is it the responsibility to provide education beyond what is offered to all other children. Get over your race already!
Yeah. Nobody can lie to ya, steal from ya, and break promises like a Long Knife. Looks like we'd have figured that out after 400 years of this...
Have y'all nullified those treaties yet, or are you just ignoring them? Either way, we should have figured out long ago that you had no intention of living up to your word, like a man would do. We kept OUR side of the deal.
reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 03:41 PM by apacheman
reply to post by Sparky63
No real ties to the land? Please.
We are talking about legal contracts...what happened to the American belief in the "sanctity of contracts"?
The entire "get over it and be an American" argument is nothing more or less than a demand for self-inflicted genocide. Basically your argument is that you will never abide by the obligations your nation incurred, you will never pay the debts owed, so quit asking, because it annoys you.
Which makes me wonder when the first tribes will take up arms again and fight for their lands back. Armed clashes are becoming more frequent as various tribes begin to stand up for themselves again, in defense of their people. But a day will come when some will go on offense in sheer frustration and anger. When it comes it will be a sad time for all of us, but the fault will lie with the Americans.
No real ties to the land? Please.
We are talking about legal contracts...what happened to the American belief in the "sanctity of contracts"?
The entire "get over it and be an American" argument is nothing more or less than a demand for self-inflicted genocide. Basically your argument is that you will never abide by the obligations your nation incurred, you will never pay the debts owed, so quit asking, because it annoys you.
Which makes me wonder when the first tribes will take up arms again and fight for their lands back. Armed clashes are becoming more frequent as various tribes begin to stand up for themselves again, in defense of their people. But a day will come when some will go on offense in sheer frustration and anger. When it comes it will be a sad time for all of us, but the fault will lie with the Americans.
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