ATS Debate Tournament: Member Discussion

The debate will be up within the hour.

Championship debate is now live!

Two extra posts have been added and the time-limit has been increased to 48 hours. I know you guys said no more than 36, but nowhere does it say you must use the full 48 hours. With so many forfeitures in this tournament, measures have been taken to ensure that we can see a conclusion here in our championship debate.

We usually assign 3 judges to a debate, our championship will have 5.

Best of luck to both!

reply to post by chissler


WOW, what a topic!

One that I know almost nothing about.

What the heck is a 'truther' and does my position make me one?

Thanks mate ... will do my best.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Wow, this should be interesting ...

Gotta say I'm glad I didn't make it through to the finals -- 9/11 has always been the one subject I've said I wouldn't debate but I'm looking forward to reading about it!

edit to add: good luck to both schrodingers dog and souls!

[edit on 3/3/2010 by americandingbat]

9/11 is up there with race relations, it's next to impossible to discuss because people have such a tough time putting aside their emotions. So the debate forum is the perfect outlet for such a discussion.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with.

We intentionally left it wide open so every detail of that day can be brought in and examined.

This will be a good one...

I am mildly disappointed though, as I have been doing my own unique brand of research and have found an interesting angle that hasn't been considered by the 9/11 crowd. But in order to not taint the debate, I must wait until it is over...!!

This is going to be an interesting debate. I never thought this would become a reality!

Seriously though, 9/11 is a really good topic and it is most definitely going to be hard.

An interesting topic, for sure. Too bad about the phrasing -- 'circumstantial evidence', considered alone, separate from tangible and definitive evidence? And only the 'amount' of it is relevant? Not much of a standard of proof, but I suppose the uphill battle only makes S-dog more formidible.

Normally I wouldn't comment about technicalities of a debate, but since the involved members are obviously of a talent level well beyond such discussing being considered 'hints', the gloves are off...

Looking forward to a good read! Best luck to all...

reply to post by Ian McLean


While the wording wasn't my own, I did look into rephrasing it several ways and I felt confident that what I was forwarded was the best approach. But regardless, it's bad form to comment while the debate is running.

Please wait until it has concluded to comment.

Originally posted by chissler
While the wording wasn't my own, I did look into rephrasing it several ways and I felt confident that what I was forwarded was the best approach.

The wording is a good attempt to make the discussion balanced -- no intent to fault.

Just noticing how the topic wording and 'technical climate' here tends to make debates spiral into definition battles and semantic skirmishes, rather than addressing the core issue head-on.

But regardless, it's bad form to comment while the debate is running.

That was my point: no it isn't, and shouldn't be.

Alright you two ... simma dow nah!

And yies, I'm pretty sure souls and I noticed the debate title.

Now leave us alone!

For the remaining two competitors, the thread was re-opened yesterday.

reply to post by chissler


I haven't heard from souls the last few days but I have my opening post ready to go ... I will wait until tomorrow evening to post it so as to allow souls maximum time.

Thanks c.

Edit to add: Got a note from souls earlier this evening and he is ready to go ... I will as noted post my opening post by Tuesday evening.

[edit on 16 Mar 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Opening post is up!

Thanks everyone for your patience.

Delicious.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6d35e102959e.jpg[/atsimg]

I did not expect my opening post to take this long. Things do come up all of a sudden. I will be consistent in posting within the time allotted from now on. Thanks again to everyone who may have been waiting.

This topic rocks , go at it you two.... Watching and taking notes

Argh ... souls hasn't signed on since the 23rd and it's past his time to post which was earlier today.

Not really sure what to do, he was more than patient with me accommodating me in delaying the start of the debate, and I really would prefer for this final to have all seven posts from both fighters, for both the topic and a championship final merit it.

I think what I'll do is grant him a de facto 24hr extension as if he had claimed it formally and not post until that has expired tomorrow.

But I'm open to suggestions as to how to best proceed.

Cheers!

Edit: Never mind, souls just posted his extension request.

[edit on 27 Mar 2010 by schrodingers dog]

Hi folks,

What a disappointing and anti-climactic end to a debate tournament. An end which unfortunately mirrors too many of the debates of said tournament which was characterized from the start with way too many withdrawals and concessions.

Having thought about it since my championship opponent conceded late last night my perspective has somewhat changed from my original reaction which was mostly one of hollowness and even a little frustration with the anti-climactic denouement. For most of you know how much I care both for the ATS community and especially the debate forum and thought that both deserved a better championship final, especially in light of such an important topic.

Mostly, and I don't mind admitting this about myself, ever since MemoryShock invited me to my first debate over a year and a half ago, winning a debate tournament has been an ambition of mine. Perhaps it is shallow, perhaps it is pedantic, but I value the intellectual process and yes, the competition.

So when the final ended with such a whimper, it felt in many ways like for reasons outside my control and through no fault of my own, the significance of becoming a debate "champion" had been significantly diminished. After all, it is the cornerstone of the debate forum to be able to not only manage, but to thrive when defending topics and positions one disagrees with ... this was the case on every topic I had leading up to the final and it never occurred to me to relent as a result.

That is how it felt last night, and perhaps rightly so ... but being an ATS member is in many ways, and if one's ego is open to the possibility, an exercise in stripping oneself of self importance and personal 'issues.'

So, now having expressed them, I'm going to drop all the above thoughts. Fact is for the last four months or so I did everything I could to fight the good fight with earnestness, commitment, and honesty. If the "win" is to be interpreted as devalued because of the way the tournament unfolded, so be it, but I hope you won't begrudge me not seeing it that way for I chose to be happy with it and won't beat myself up for achieving it in what could be considered less than ideal circumstances which were outside my control.

Hopefully now that the debate forum has seen a resurrection through this tournament, a way forward can be found to build on this fragile momentum and promote further member debates, for it surely is imho a valuable addition to our community.

In the meantime, and since I did not have the opportunity to express this in a final closing statement, I really want to thank chissler for dedicating his time and energies to the tournament, all the other fighters for engaging in what is a difficult and time consuming undertaking for no reward other than the love of the process for its own sake, the judges for volunteering to read and evaluate our debates, and most of all, all our fellow members who read and followed the debates with interest.

So thank you to all!

Cheers!

[edit on 28 Mar 2010 by schrodingers dog]

While I am as well a bit disappointed in how the debate ended, I cannot help but express that the debates did showcase some very real talent. I wouldn't view this as a devaluing, SDog...

Congratulations on the Debate Tournament Victory...