Why did the Catholics change the ten commandments ?

Originally posted by zaiger
I think who wrote what first means little i think it is all just a moral story and good rules to live by.

Zaiger, thanks for posting the Egyptian book of the dead excerpts -do you have any links ?

I'd agree they're good rules to live by but regarding the 'who wrote what first' issue, I think it's quite important.

I tend to agree with Arthur C Clarke when he said:

"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion."

Arthur C. Clarke

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Max_TO

 

I just feel that Catholics and Protestants spend far too much time arguing about their differences rather than concentrating on that which they have in common

I'd say the same about all Christians, Jews and Muslims. They follow the same Abrahamic creed, worship the same god ....... and absolutely hate each other.

Odd thing religion.

What would God say? (unless of course, that is what he intended all along - and he is supposedly omniscient ...... )

The Catholic Church and the Lutherans have the same order to the 10 commandments.
It was only after the reformation that the prots changed the order to reflect what judaism holds as the order of the commandments.

Originally posted by Max_TO
reply to post by StopComplaining

 

Also worth noting , the service didn't really cover the bible at all .

Some one wasn't paying attention. All Catholic masses have readings from the bible. Usually one or two old testament and two new testament gospels are read and then commented upon by the priest durring his homily. So there are usually four readings directly from the bible evey mass.

sorry, double post.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by BillMe]

reply to post by karl 12

I've always thought the commandments were conveniently 'borrowed' from the Egyptian book of the dead:

Probably because the Hebrews did not come out of Egypt but the Egyptians went out to Cannan and over time became what was known as the Hebrews.

The Egyptian theme runs right the way through the Bibles, and after all the first recorded incident of the invention of monothesim came from guess where ? Yup you got it Egypt.

The Egyptians as we know were very early participants in resurrection cults and guess which modern day religion practices this very same thing ?

What do the bibles describe ? A monotheistic dogmatic cult supplanted by a resurrection cult, the similarity with Egypt ?

A polytheistic resurrection cult usurped by a monotheistic cult then a complete reversal when the monotheists were exiled to guess where ?

Indeed everyone a winner babe, well except anyone who isn't !

Why did the Catholics change the ten commandments ?

Because they wanted to.

Humans have always altered their superstitions to fit their needs.

They always will. It is the reason we have hundreds of religions.

We design Gods in our own selfish image...not the other way around.

reply to post by karl 12


Moses would more likely be an allusion to Ramses and Aaron to Horemheb, both contender for the throne upon the death of the holy father and back door pharaoh AY (addonay/) .

Moses/Ramses no doubt the transmitter and protector of the priests of the monotheistic Aten, Aaron/Horemheb a proponent of Thebes hence the golden calf (hathor), where did he disappear to ? back to egypt to take the crown.

Gods don't oder mass slaughter of a population which includes 60000 armed men, generals do, these were no Hebrews they were the Egyptian followers of the Aten

Where do the xtians think 2 million bonded slaves would acquire volumes of gold especially considering the population of Egypt was barely three million ???

As you rightly point out , the commandments the prayers (including some psalms) all have their root in Egypt.

The parting of the sea of reeds is to be found depicted on the temple walls and much more that I don't have time for right now.

reply to post by karl 12


Why would it be importiant about who wrote what first? There are other things hijacked from egyptian beliefs by the christians. But when you have rules like do not kill,steal,lie and others those are just common sense, i do not think things like do not murder and steal were "stolen" or even borrowed from other religions i think it is just common sense.

Originally posted by zaiger
Why would it be importiant about who wrote what first?

Because in one version of events these guidelines for moral integrity were developed incrementaly by different civilisations (therefore having a humanist origin) and in the other they came from a supernatural entity disguised as a bush.

Guess what else is not in the Bible,

There is no mandate for preachers to pimp the Son of God like a common twenty dollar whore. Yet millions of preachers of ALL denominations trot out the Son of God every Sunday and parade him around to make their car payments, pay for their lavish houses, put their kids through college etc., etc., etc..

Jesus threw the money changers out of his Father's Temple.

The TITHE was never meant to go into the hands of the priest/preacher. It was always a BURNT OFFERING offered directly to God.

Jesus told his disciples to give their belongings to the poor and follow him. You do not see any preachers following that little gem do you. Catholic or otherwise.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Max_TO

 

The one thing the vast majority of Christians seem to forget is that it is the acts and deeds of man upon which he will be judged, not on his observance of obsure and man made codes and practices.

If there is a God and a Judgement Day then I will be judged on my own acts and deeds

If only we were lucky enough to be judged on our good deeds but we won't be, we will be judged by if we asked the Lord Jesus to be our Saviour and repented of our sins.
Period.

Here is a quick overview of the 'controversy'. A more detailed analysis can be found here: www.fisheaters.com...

(from that site)

When the Commandments are listed, they are often listed in short-hand form, such that, for ex., verses 8, 9, 10 and 11 concerning the Sabbath become simply "Remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy." Because Latin Catholics group 3, 4, 5 and 6 together as all pertaining to the concept "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," we are accused of having "dropped" the commandment against idols. That Eastern Catholics list the Commandments differently never enters the equation for people who think this way; they are simply against those they probably call the "Romish popers" and that's that (I hope it doesn't bother them that Jews would accuse them of totally forgetting the First Commandment, or that Latin Catholics could accuse some Protestants of skipping lightly over the commandments against lust. And why don't the Protestants who have a problem with our numbering system go after the Lutherans for the same thing, anyway?).

Bottom line:

* chapter and verse numbering in the Bible came about in the Middle Ages

* the Catholic Church (which includes Eastern Catholics, too) has two different numbering systems for the Commandments given, one agreeing with the most common Protestant enumeration;

* the Latin Church's numbering is the most common in the Catholic Church and is the one referred to by Protestants who, ignoring Eastern Catholic Churches, accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped a Commandment;

* no Commandment has been dropped, in any case, but the Latin Church's shorthand for the Commandments looks different than the typical Protestant version because of how the Commandments are grouped;

* everyone knows how to find Exodus 20 in the Bible, anyway -- even us stoopid Latin Catholics; and

* we don't care how they are grouped together; we only care that they are understood and obeyed -- not because we are under the Old Testament Moral and Ceremonial Law with its legalism and non-salvific ritual (we aren't!), but because we are to obey God as children of the New Covenant, whose moral law includes the Two Great Commandments (to love God and to love our neighbor) which surpass the Decalogue, and whose Sacraments surpass empty ritual, being media of grace.

Originally posted by kingofmd
So you are equating asking God Himself for something, to asking a dead person, who has no ability to even hear your prayers? Even if they could hear you, why would their intercession be any more important than someone living? Are we not forbidden to communicate with the dead because any spirit roaming the earth, that is not glorfying God, is a demon? But that is beside the point, why even bother when Jesus provided us a means to be reconciled to God w/o a middle-man other than Himself? (You know that whole death on the cross event, which is the central theme of the faith)

Why is it an either/or situation? Why not pray to God, ask friends and family to pray for you and ask those that are alive in Christ in heaven to pray for you?

Would you consider asking others to pray for you 'to be reconciled to God w/o a middle-man other than Himself'?

Eric

A, notable difference in Catholic teaching is that it does not take the old testament literally (and some of the new testament) unlike Protestant Fundamentalists, it views these teachings as scripture, and looks for the underlying theological message.

Although you only have to look at the Egyptian book of the dead to see how that influenced the bible.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by mtok7]

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by zaiger
Why would it be importiant about who wrote what first?

Because in one version of events these guidelines for moral integrity were developed incrementaly by different civilisations (therefore having a humanist origin) and in the other they came from a supernatural entity disguised as a bush.

Well that is kind of hard to prove, it is not like the jews were robbing each other and killing each other off before they had the 10 commandments. But i suppose it would depend on what your opinion of the bible was. A text based documentary of real time events or a book with morals and stories to get those across.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by zaiger]

Are you sure you're looking at the same verses? As I recall, there is a commandment not to take the name of the Lord in vain, and another prohibiting graven images. Certainly there are more than ten commandments. There are hundreds. The Ten Commandments are basically the big ones, not the only ones.

So, it would be helpful to refer to the chapter and verse of the texts you are comparing, in order to simplify the discussion.

Originally posted by karl 12
I'd agree they're good rules to live by but regarding the 'who wrote what first' issue, I think it's quite important.

I personally don't think that it's important to the issue around whether the ancient Hebrews developed the 10 Commandments themselves. They are not direct facsimiles of each other, and it is credible that each culture to have developed the "rule-sets" independently of each other.

reply to post by Max_TO


I hate to burst your bubble but those are two seperate commandments. Do you actually know all the commandments or do you just make false assumptions to bash religions? Also, why'd you compare Catholics to Protestants in this post? Protestants came after catholics.