Paying govt money to greedy doctors will not produce affordable health care.

We will NEVER get affordable health care by throwing billions of taxpayer dollars at greedy doctors.

The key to affordable health care is to put caps on the money that can be charged for procedures by doctors and to stop price gouging by hospitals and medical suppliers.

The last time my father had a stent put in, the doctor pocketed twenty grand from his insurance and medicare for a two and a half hour procedure. Not exactly the kind of money your average man on the street has.

Why should I have to pay 300 dollars or more a month for health insurance for my entire life because some greedy doctors have gotten together and fixed the system so they all get fabulously rich in a very short time?

I have no problem paying a doctor several hundred dollars an hour, but over seven thousand dollars an hour is quite a bit too much. The only reason they can get away with this is because it is a "medical" procedure. You put the word "medical" in front of anything and it automatically multiplies the value many fold.

Then there is the equipment. Most medical equipment is no more complicated than your average car or truck, yet it costs quite a bit more.

How do I know how complicated medical equipment is? When I was in the sixth grade me and some friends of mine built an X-Ray Machine. That is right you hear me correctly. We built an X-Ray machine. We did not have access to X-Ray film so we used Kodak Lithography film to take X-Rays of birds, frogs, and fish. We did it in a weekend with less than one hundred dollars of mid 1960's money. We did not buy the X-Ray tube though as we got it from the Naha Air Force Base landfill where we discovered it in a pile of trash from the base hospital. All we had to do was provide a high voltage power supply and we were taking X-Rays.

I cannot believe we allow greedy doctors and medical equipment manufacturers to charge the money that they do. Also there is no reason for hospitals to make a profit. Pay the bills, pay the staff, pay for the equipment and upkeep of the premesis, pay to build the building. What more do you need?

I know some will reply that taking away the gravy train from doctors will make it so none will want to practice but that is wrong.

IT WILL ELIMINATE SOME DOCTORS.... THE GREEDY ONES. THE DEDICATED PROFESSIONALS WHO CAME INTO THE PROFESSION TO HELP PEOPLE WILL STILL BE AROUND PRACTICING MEDICINE. After all several hundred dollars an hour is still better than what everyone else on the planet makes.

reply to post by groingrinder

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Part of the reason the price is so hight is because doctors have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for malpractice insurance, and hospitals pay a fortune in insurance to cover them in case someone sues over an accident.

So one of the best things we could do is to cap the amount of money someone can sue for.

Actually, most doctors are not greedy. They're sincerely trying to help people. In order to do that, they've had to go through a grueling educational process that included medical school, internship, and residency. It's a brutal experience. They've earned their money.

Moreover, they don't get to set their prices - not most of them, anyway. Insurance companies tell them how much they'll pay for various procedures. In most plans I've seen, a doctor can't charge the patient for the "rest", if he wants to get more. He has to agree to charge only what the insurance company agrees, letting the patient pay the co-pay, etc., but not trying to get any more than that.

I agree that too many people sue doctors for bad results, when it's not something the doctor did wrong. Sometimes, bad things happen even when everyone did everything right. But there are also times when a doctor is just plain sloppy, leaving someone dead or permanently paralyzed, in a coma or vegetative state, etc. These living victims may require intense, ongoing medical care for the rest of their lives. It is reasonable that the doctor who caused the problem should be required to pay for his negligence.

Our crappy health care comes, I believe, from the switch of hospitals from more or less private corporations to massive corporations interested in making a profit. They do everything they can to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone, while trying to avoid giving them expensive treatments. They'll worried about their bottom line, not the health of their patients.

Another problem is "managed care", because the people who do the managing are not doctors, but businessmen. They, too, are concerned with the bottom line and not with health. They seriously hinder what a doctor is allowed to do for a patient, and penalize the doctor for going beyond those limitations. These HMO's and PPO's use a "one size fits all" approach to medicine, that will work fairly well, fairly often. Unfortunately, someone with an unusual illness, or a unique problem, won't often get good care.

Finally, the amount of money wasted on drugs is appalling. Drug companies are the real source of greed and unreasonable prices. Although drug companies claim that they need to charge rapacious amounts in order to pay for their expensive research, the fact is that they pay far more for advertising, than for R&D. Basically they bribe doctors to prescribe their medications. Take them out, give them freebies (ever notice how many drug-related gifts are in your doctor's office?), hold seminars and conventions where they're given wonderful service, you name it.

Wal-Mart, not known for its altruism, is able to offer many prescriptions for $4. That should tell you something about how much drugs really should cost.

reply to post by chiron613

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Sorry, but I do not believe they have earned the right to bankrupt a common citizen for life who needs their services. In the early 1900's doctors were making house calls on horse and buggy rigs for goats and chickens. Doctors have indeed become greedy. There is no denying it.

I think you might be confusing greedy Drs with Greedy hospitals and insurance companies.

It costs a fortune to pay for an education to become a medical Dr, specialists pay a fortune on top of a fortune.

A standard, run of the mill MD will graduate med school owing 2-3 thousand per month in student loans.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Dr's getting all our tax money. There won't be enough of them left to go around. My Dr who is a family friend and as honest a person as could be told me flat out that if Obama care pases she's leaving the medical field. She said the compensation figures Congress is trying to pass are so low she would lose money.

No one is going to go into debt to become a Dr if they cannot get out of that debt. The problem with government run programs is that someone always ends up getting the short end. In this case it will be you and I and the medical workers.

Any time I've seen a medical bill that was just outrageous it was from a hospital and it seems like there's always at least one charge the insurance company refuses to pay because the hospital is trying to charge three times what the already padded item should cost.

I have yet to escape from a medical issue where a hospital was involved owing only my co-pay and deductible. Every time I've gotten stuck with some charge the insurance company won't pay no matter how long I fight it.

Our health care would be much more affordable if our congress wasn't beholden to the lawyers who file the thousands upon thousands of lawsuits against doctors and hospitals. How do you think John Edwards made his money? Suing doctors....for stupid reasons not supported by science.

If we had tort reform and deregulated insurance we would be fine....

they're not gonna give the greedy doctors the money!!!
they are gonna give it to the greedy insurance companies!!
you go enroll your child into schips, they will give you a list of insurance companies that you can enroll with.
same with the medicaid in most of the country I believe.
does it sound to you that obama is concerned with weather or not you can pay for your medical care, or does it sound like he's more concerned with weather or not you can afford the insurance? is he trying to force you to go get your annual exam, or is he trying to force you into an insurance plan?

they want us all insured....they don't give a crap what happens after that!
they've allowed the cost of the medical care to get so far out that no one can really afford it! so, now, they will just be happy to get the money the insurance company will pay them, and well, whatever protion of your liquidated assetts the bankruptcy judge decides they deserve.

after all, they main goal all along was for us all to be broke and penniless, charges of the state! with a select few of course, holding the wealth.
then, after that happens, you will find a welfare system much more brutal and less generous.

reply to post by ecoparity

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Where I come from hospitals bill separately from the Dr. The bill from the Dr. is always much higher than that of the hospital. The hospital gives you a break if you are poor and you only pay a percentage of the fee. The Dr's billing service however ALWAYS MAKES YOU PAY THE ENTIRE FEE. I have not confused the GREEDY DOCTORS WITH THE HOSPITAL. I understand they have student loans, however they do not have to pay them back with just one patient, or in one week.

People replying to this thread need to understand that I have seen the medical bills. I know exactly who is getting the money. If you have not actually looked at a medical bill, then do not try to make excuses for the GREEDY DOCTORS.

Well, what else do you expect from a private health system?

This is why America needs a National Health System paid for by the taxpayer.

reply to post by groingrinder

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Doctors are not the only ones that will be getting tax payer money, the insurance companies the same ones that we are supposed to see as evil will be getting tax payer money as well.

Since when we the tax payer are supposed to support private entities in this nation.

Only in America.



[edit on 5-11-2009 by marg6043]

Ugh, there should no limits on a jury award for medical incompetence. My better half had a breast reduction. Turns out the old boy that did it did not establish a blood supply for the tissues involved.

A few days after the surgery, her breasts turned black and started to smell like rotting flesh. She went thru procedure after procedure to correct the problem. Now she has misshapen breasts.

Imagine her terror, pain and suffering. Would you want to limit her award?

reply to post by praxis

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Sadly and as bad as it seems right now, for the people in this nation remember that the big pharma got away with immunity from their dangerous vaccines now don't be surprised that the whores in congress will add immunity to doctors also for their support on the health care reform.

In America for the right amount of money you can buy as may congressmen and womens as you can.

Good thread and good topic. Here we are debating over how to pay exorbitant amounts of money with a health care bill, and your asking the right question as to why the prices are so high.

There are a list of reasons why, and I agree that tort reform would be a good start. If we limit the amounts of payouts for malpractice that eliminates the uncertainty of a large payout and thus malpractice insurance would go down.

Here is the thing though. Will that translate into lower medical prices? Will that help reduce the price of prescription drugs? I highly doubt it.

We will still need health care reform all around to bring this beast under control.

reply to post by Wotan

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What I am proposing is the elimination of all government run and private health insurance. I am talking about making medical care affordable for everyone to pay out of their own pockets. By eliminating the outrageous fees to the GREEDY DOCTORS at the top of the food chain, we will have no need for the government and private insurance programs deemed necessary in order to pay the outrageous fees currently charged. The patient will be able to pay for his own care without needing private or government insurance.

I propose that there is PRICE FIXING among the Doctors and Insurance Companies, including the Government programs Medicare and Medicaid to keep medical bills outrageously high because it not only benefits the doctors, but is job security for the bureaucrats.

If we eliminate outrageous fees, there is no need for insurance of any kind.

reply to post by praxis

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You make a good point. I think that Doctors who have repeated claims against them need to get their license to practice yanked. However Doctors, like law enforcement officers take care of their own. They have each others backs. The review boards overseeing Doctors are made up of other Doctors. The fox is guarding the hen house so to speak.

reply to post by marg6043

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In by mind, you are absolutely correct. The medical and insurance lobbies have taken all of our money and are now using it against us to buy Congresscritters.

reply to post by Hal9000

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You make some excellent points. However I will never agree with not being able to sue an incompetent Doctor. In fact, I also support being able to sue the medical revue boards that allow them to continue practicing.

reply to post by HotSauce

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For once I agree with you HS, hahahahaha

someone mark this day.



Not only do they pay an obscene amount of money, but then they spend an obscene amount of time doing it too.

to the poster, as for the equipment, one problem is that we don't always need the latest and greatest.

and the other is, it is not necessarily that they equipment is complicated, but a whole heck of a lot of research went into inventing it, Can you explain how a catscan works? Neither can I. it is that complicated. But some smarty came up with it.

reply to post by dawnstar

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I can sense your frustration and know exactly what you mean. Anyone who has tried to notice has seen what you are talking about coming down the tracks for a long time now. Why have we allowed ourselves to get to this?