Paying govt money to greedy doctors will not produce affordable health care., page 1
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Topic started on 5-11-2009 @ 01:09 AM by groingrinder
We will NEVER get affordable health care by throwing billions of taxpayer dollars at greedy doctors.

The key to affordable health care is to put caps on the money that can be charged for procedures by doctors and to stop price gouging by hospitals and medical suppliers.

The last time my father had a stent put in, the doctor pocketed twenty grand from his insurance and medicare for a two and a half hour procedure. Not exactly the kind of money your average man on the street has.

Why should I have to pay 300 dollars or more a month for health insurance for my entire life because some greedy doctors have gotten together and fixed the system so they all get fabulously rich in a very short time?

I have no problem paying a doctor several hundred dollars an hour, but over seven thousand dollars an hour is quite a bit too much. The only reason they can get away with this is because it is a "medical" procedure. You put the word "medical" in front of anything and it automatically multiplies the value many fold.

Then there is the equipment. Most medical equipment is no more complicated than your average car or truck, yet it costs quite a bit more.

How do I know how complicated medical equipment is? When I was in the sixth grade me and some friends of mine built an X-Ray Machine. That is right you hear me correctly. We built an X-Ray machine. We did not have access to X-Ray film so we used Kodak Lithography film to take X-Rays of birds, frogs, and fish. We did it in a weekend with less than one hundred dollars of mid 1960's money. We did not buy the X-Ray tube though as we got it from the Naha Air Force Base landfill where we discovered it in a pile of trash from the base hospital. All we had to do was provide a high voltage power supply and we were taking X-Rays.

I cannot believe we allow greedy doctors and medical equipment manufacturers to charge the money that they do. Also there is no reason for hospitals to make a profit. Pay the bills, pay the staff, pay for the equipment and upkeep of the premesis, pay to build the building. What more do you need?

I know some will reply that taking away the gravy train from doctors will make it so none will want to practice but that is wrong.

IT WILL ELIMINATE SOME DOCTORS.... THE GREEDY ONES. THE DEDICATED PROFESSIONALS WHO CAME INTO THE PROFESSION TO HELP PEOPLE WILL STILL BE AROUND PRACTICING MEDICINE. After all several hundred dollars an hour is still better than what everyone else on the planet makes.


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 01:21 AM by HotSauce
reply to post by groingrinder



Part of the reason the price is so hight is because doctors have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for malpractice insurance, and hospitals pay a fortune in insurance to cover them in case someone sues over an accident.

So one of the best things we could do is to cap the amount of money someone can sue for.


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 01:51 AM by chiron613
Actually, most doctors are not greedy. They're sincerely trying to help people. In order to do that, they've had to go through a grueling educational process that included medical school, internship, and residency. It's a brutal experience. They've earned their money.

Moreover, they don't get to set their prices - not most of them, anyway. Insurance companies tell them how much they'll pay for various procedures. In most plans I've seen, a doctor can't charge the patient for the "rest", if he wants to get more. He has to agree to charge only what the insurance company agrees, letting the patient pay the co-pay, etc., but not trying to get any more than that.

I agree that too many people sue doctors for bad results, when it's not something the doctor did wrong. Sometimes, bad things happen even when everyone did everything right. But there are also times when a doctor is just plain sloppy, leaving someone dead or permanently paralyzed, in a coma or vegetative state, etc. These living victims may require intense, ongoing medical care for the rest of their lives. It is reasonable that the doctor who caused the problem should be required to pay for his negligence.

Our crappy health care comes, I believe, from the switch of hospitals from more or less private corporations to massive corporations interested in making a profit. They do everything they can to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone, while trying to avoid giving them expensive treatments. They'll worried about their bottom line, not the health of their patients.

Another problem is "managed care", because the people who do the managing are not doctors, but businessmen. They, too, are concerned with the bottom line and not with health. They seriously hinder what a doctor is allowed to do for a patient, and penalize the doctor for going beyond those limitations. These HMO's and PPO's use a "one size fits all" approach to medicine, that will work fairly well, fairly often. Unfortunately, someone with an unusual illness, or a unique problem, won't often get good care.

Finally, the amount of money wasted on drugs is appalling. Drug companies are the real source of greed and unreasonable prices. Although drug companies claim that they need to charge rapacious amounts in order to pay for their expensive research, the fact is that they pay far more for advertising, than for R&D. Basically they bribe doctors to prescribe their medications. Take them out, give them freebies (ever notice how many drug-related gifts are in your doctor's office?), hold seminars and conventions where they're given wonderful service, you name it.

Wal-Mart, not known for its altruism, is able to offer many prescriptions for $4. That should tell you something about how much drugs really should cost.



reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 03:16 AM by groingrinder
reply to post by chiron613



Sorry, but I do not believe they have earned the right to bankrupt a common citizen for life who needs their services. In the early 1900's doctors were making house calls on horse and buggy rigs for goats and chickens. Doctors have indeed become greedy. There is no denying it.


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 10:21 AM by groingrinder
reply to post by ecoparity



Where I come from hospitals bill separately from the Dr. The bill from the Dr. is always much higher than that of the hospital. The hospital gives you a break if you are poor and you only pay a percentage of the fee. The Dr's billing service however ALWAYS MAKES YOU PAY THE ENTIRE FEE. I have not confused the GREEDY DOCTORS WITH THE HOSPITAL. I understand they have student loans, however they do not have to pay them back with just one patient, or in one week.



reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 10:47 AM by marg6043
reply to post by groingrinder



Doctors are not the only ones that will be getting tax payer money, the insurance companies the same ones that we are supposed to see as evil will be getting tax payer money as well.

Since when we the tax payer are supposed to support private entities in this nation.

Only in America.



[edit on 5-11-2009 by marg6043]


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 11:41 AM by marg6043
reply to post by praxis



Sadly and as bad as it seems right now, for the people in this nation remember that the big pharma got away with immunity from their dangerous vaccines now don't be surprised that the whores in congress will add immunity to doctors also for their support on the health care reform.

In America for the right amount of money you can buy as may congressmen and womens as you can.


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 11:54 AM by groingrinder
reply to post by Wotan



What I am proposing is the elimination of all government run and private health insurance. I am talking about making medical care affordable for everyone to pay out of their own pockets. By eliminating the outrageous fees to the GREEDY DOCTORS at the top of the food chain, we will have no need for the government and private insurance programs deemed necessary in order to pay the outrageous fees currently charged. The patient will be able to pay for his own care without needing private or government insurance.

I propose that there is PRICE FIXING among the Doctors and Insurance Companies, including the Government programs Medicare and Medicaid to keep medical bills outrageously high because it not only benefits the doctors, but is job security for the bureaucrats.

If we eliminate outrageous fees, there is no need for insurance of any kind.



reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 11:59 AM by groingrinder
reply to post by praxis



You make a good point. I think that Doctors who have repeated claims against them need to get their license to practice yanked. However Doctors, like law enforcement officers take care of their own. They have each others backs. The review boards overseeing Doctors are made up of other Doctors. The fox is guarding the hen house so to speak.


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 12:01 PM by groingrinder
reply to post by marg6043



In by mind, you are absolutely correct. The medical and insurance lobbies have taken all of our money and are now using it against us to buy Congresscritters.


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 12:03 PM by groingrinder
reply to post by Hal9000



You make some excellent points. However I will never agree with not being able to sue an incompetent Doctor. In fact, I also support being able to sue the medical revue boards that allow them to continue practicing.


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 12:07 PM by nixie_nox
reply to post by HotSauce



For once I agree with you HS, hahahahaha

someone mark this day.



Not only do they pay an obscene amount of money, but then they spend an obscene amount of time doing it too.

to the poster, as for the equipment, one problem is that we don't always need the latest and greatest.

and the other is, it is not necessarily that they equipment is complicated, but a whole heck of a lot of research went into inventing it, Can you explain how a catscan works? Neither can I. it is that complicated. But some smarty came up with it.


reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 12:17 PM by groingrinder
reply to post by dawnstar



I can sense your frustration and know exactly what you mean. Anyone who has tried to notice has seen what you are talking about coming down the tracks for a long time now. Why have we allowed ourselves to get to this?
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