this is the same ploy bush's sheep screamed when the war started.

this is now the ploy of obama's sheep.

good work playing directly into the hands of your masters everyone *applause*

truth is, a real american WORKS FOR A LIVING.

if you are sick or unable to work, then thats what medicare is for.

we already have it.

same as charities.

we already have it.

dont come spouting garbage about how only real americans want government run healthcare.

if they did, then the real americans wouldnt be protesting in the streets right now.

nice try though. you wont get it unless you force it, and guess what, that will make a whole lot of people very angry.

if you dont see that this government is trying to take over everything yet, then you are just as blind as those who needed war.

merigold makes the point much clearer than me.

all of this "we work for a living. if youre poor,go get a job" attitude stinks. well some people have conditions that prevent them from working. some people DO work. check out 'pimp my ride'. ive seen Americans on that who hold down 2-3 mcjobs to keep there family together,but are unable to provide medical costs.

no trolling here,but i am now seeing a "i'm alright,jack.so forget you" attitude amongst Americans that is selfish and mean.

USANHS=Real America.

Originally posted by ewokdisco
merigold makes the point much clearer than me.

all of this "we work for a living. if youre poor,go get a job" attitude stinks. well some people have conditions that prevent them from working. some people DO work. check out 'pimp my ride'. ive seen Americans on that who hold down 2-3 mcjobs to keep there family together,but are unable to provide medical costs.

no trolling here,but i am now seeing a "i'm alright,jack.so forget you" attitude amongst Americans that is selfish and mean.

USANHS=Real America.

not one person has said that reform isnt needed.

everyone with a little commons sense knows the government isnt needed to provide the end all be all health care though.

can noone see this distinction?

edit: and if you are poor GO GET A JOB YA LAZY A** BUM! If you've got a crappy job, maybe you shouldnt have dropped out?? maybe you should apply yourself better. if you are broke, chances are you can still afford drugs though right?

no more free lunch. how can you have 3 jobs at mcdonalds, btw?

im struggling right now too, i dont have healthcare, but theres a thing called taking one for the team.... not OOO NO IM SO BROKE AND SOO STUCK THAT I SHOULD BE A BURDEN ON EVERYONE.

ive lived off ramen and easy mac for well over 2 years, but guess what, i worked my butt off to be where i am. maybe they should too.

if you have a disability, chances are you are already on assistance too
[edit on 11/5/2009 by mahtoosacks]

[edit on 11/5/2009 by mahtoosacks]

I am all for NHS.

My issue is the government implementing it in a way to tax the people with money, rather than also benefiting those people who have worked for what they have.

Do not even try to show me what Obama or anyone has said about no new taxes...it will be a lie.

The only change Obama has brought is the change in his own promises.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
I am all for NHS.

My issue is the government implementing it in a way to tax the people with money, rather than also benefiting those people who have worked for what they have.

Do not even try to show me what Obama or anyone has said about no new taxes...it will be a lie.

The only change Obama has brought is the change in his own promises.

i agree more with your stance than your opinion of nhs. if only more could see like you do. we might actually have a real debate on it.

I am for a NHS service. The problem is that health care and big pharma are destroying this bill and making it akin to auto insurance.

They want to force everyone to get private insurance from private companies.

I say screw that, if I am going to be forced to get insurance, there better be a public option. I don't like big insurance companies, they only want what is best for their bottom line and will screw people over on health care to get it.

Too bad our representatives are corporate whores that just obey their corporate masters instead of their constituency. If the representatives in Washington were to actually listen to the people for a change there would be NHS in this country and it wouldn't raise anyone's taxes. You could offset the cost by reducing the amount we spend on the military industrial complex for one.

I see no way this will alleviate "suffering" of anyone. It will only add suffering to tax payers. For the price of the additional tax alone, you could afford premium health care.. but because middle income families will now have to pay for health care PLUS taxes for the lazy, ignorant portion of society, they will be FORCED into substandard government run health care.

Look at the VA.

That's what Gov run health care looks like.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I see no way this will alleviate "suffering" of anyone. It will only add suffering to tax payers. For the price of the additional tax alone, you could afford premium health care.. but because middle income families will now have to pay for health care PLUS taxes for the lazy, ignorant portion of society, they will be FORCED into substandard government run health care.

Look at the VA.

That's what Gov run health care looks like.

thats very true.

the majority of people are trying to avoid been stuck to a public ONLY option. it will suck major ***.

look at any other government run thing.

post office vs fedex/ups
amtrack vs ...planes? does amtrack have a competitor? GREYHOUND!!
projects vs actual houses.

who here wants the projects healthcare?

not me, although government cheese is f'n good

most Americans kneejerk hate the idea of a US style NHS,because they hate ANY idea put forward by 'evil' government.

As an American Citizen, I can agree and disagree with the changes to health care. I agree there is a bit of a problem and that it needs to be fixed, however, the way that Pelosi/Obama wants to do it, makes absolutely no sense and the health care bill is going to be more trouble than it is worth. I do not believe that the government needs to mandate that all should have health insurance, but needs to take a good look at the health insurance companies, which by the way, are a legal monopoly. They need to take a look and then regulate it, and open all 50 states up to all companies that meet the needs of health insurance, kind of like auto insurance. That would force costs to go down, and make health insurance affordiable. I will never understand why I can take a car trip to any of the 50 states and the auto insurance transfers over, and is accepted, but can't do it with health insurance. There needs to be affordable insurance for all americans, and they need to get off of the point of telling no to people who have either a pre-existing condition, or no to a proceedure that they decide is not needed, when the patients doctor states other.

What's non American about health care for everyone despite their income?

I'll tell you. Everything! It's called Socialism, and it along with Democracy (which is Mob Rule 51 % of the people decide for the other 49) was rejected by our founding fathers in favor of a Republic.

Socialism is one step away from Communism.

People spout the word Liberty without knowing what it really means in the light of the U.S Constitution. Freedom is a promise to the people that in this country they can have whatever they desire in life that they have worked hard for and secured for themselves without fear of the government coming in to take it away. Liberty is the ways and means by which that freedom is obtained. We are free to pursue liberty - to do what is deemed necessary to obtain those things which we desire. (in a lawful manner)

This is the basis of our American way of life. Though it may be sad that some people are poor and cannot afford health care, and by all means Help Them, this is NOT, was NEVER meant to be the role of Government!

Study the Constitution and the writings of the Founding Fathers. Most people really have no idea what principles this country was really founded on and why - yet they still go around yelling about Freedom and Liberty and think that that means they are entitled to every good thing under the sun because They are Proud Americans and they deserve these things from their government. It does not work this way and was never designed to work this way.

Now that America is becoming a socialist country it is doomed to failure, history reveals that this form of government is not based on sound principles and has always failed.

RockPuck, I agree with you. We do Not need an overhaul of the entire system. This system has been messed with and twisted enough such to the point that millions of people have been deceived into thinking this country is a democracy. We do need reform. We need to get everything out of this country that resembles a democratic, socialist, communistic or any other form of government that is Not the Republic this country was founded on. Once we remove the trash from the system we will be free to grow as a nation again.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

[edit on 8-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

In the "REAL AMERICA" there are countless ways to advocate help for the poor. There are hundreds of thousands of churches who will gladly accept your money in their efforts to alleviate the suffering of the poor and beyond that there are hundreds of thousands of non profit charitable organizations that will also accept your money to help them in their endeavors to alleviate the suffering of the poor. In terms of medical care for the poor there are all ready laws that mandate that any hospital must necessarily take a patient regardless of their ability to pay. It is known as "indigent care" and it is there for the poor. Social Security, Medicade and Medicare are also set in place by the government to ensure those too poor to pay for their own health care get it.

What is shameful is the original posters undeniable willingness to ignore all that is all ready set in place on behalf of the poor in favor of expanding a federal government and advocating this political belief by bullying and shaming others into going along with that political belief. If the original poster is so zealously concerned about the poor then why not share with us your exhaustive efforts in charitable work on behalf of the poor? Why not pitch us for a donation to the organization of your choice that you believe will help bring better health care to the poor? Surely the original posters undeniable fund raising skills through shaming potential donors and belittling their own beliefs would be openly embraced by any needy organization.

"Evil government"? Of course the government isn't evil and in fact the government loves poor people and that is why they keep making so many of them!

I AM THE POOR,NIMROD...that's why i'd push for it [now,it seems,to happen]. i live in the UK and the NHS,while not perfect,has certainly helped me and my family.

Originally posted by ewokdisco
I AM THE POOR,NIMROD...that's why i'd push for it [now,it seems,to happen]. i live in the UK and the NHS,while not perfect,has certainly helped me and my family.

stay in your own countries problems, and out of ours then NIMROD....

im sure you were happy with the taking of your guns too? should we follow suit with and get a queen as well? fftt... you can have your dictators, we prefer to rule ourselves, and we will be ruling ourselves again very shortly.... this is but a minor hiccup (the past 100 years that is i guess...)

edit: amazing how people from another country can tell us what we should do...

[edit on 11/17/2009 by mahtoosacks]

Originally posted by ewokdisco
real Americans [those with a conscience for the poor] will not only invite higher taxes to pay for the USA NHS,but they will embrace it.

suffering is bad. poor people suffering because the middle classes and rich won't miss the odd burger here and there to pay the tax to pay for it,is very bad. real Americans know this.

The poor have had TRILLIONS poured down their wallets and purses since the Us welfare state started and all it has done is create an entire culture of parasitism and laziness.

The Federal government has spent hundreds of trillions on the rest of the world. They have spent many trillions here in the states. There has always been money to give away. That's why we have so many people that expect it.

It's not about Middle class Americans being too greedy to give up a burger. The government could feed every damn hungry person in the states for a fraction of what they've wasted on the rest of the planet.

Why don't they do it?

It's not about money.

It's about the subugation and control of voting blocks.

It's P O L I T I C S .