.44 Magnum: Hands down the best survival cartridge!, page 2

reply to post by WyrdeOne

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now that's what I was waiting for... someone who who could reason and think things through.... I tip my hat to you...

Let me tell you why and keep in mind, I share many of your views about the very versatile .22lr... I didn't pick it because it cannot be reloaded where the .44 can...

See I don't need to lug around a truck load of ammo crates... I just need a couple kegs of powder Couple cases of primers, my Lee press and a few bullet molds... As long as I can find wheel weight... trust me when I say there everywhere, usually free if you know who to ask... I have all the rounds I'll ever need... true there's not much rabbit left after a clean hit with a .44 325 gr. but that's what bated snares are for. True lowland game would be scarce, for a while... getting past the first year or two is the real challenge and by them we'll have wild cows to add to the menu.

I think the more common rounds, .357 9mm .45 ACP even the 5.56
will be the rounds that become horded and hard to come by... .44's offered up for trade

due to my granddaughter I had to cut my post short.. I'll try to correct that flaw now...

Loading the .44 Magnum to full-power levels is what everyone has looked toward for decades. Huge mistake on most people parts... I go the other way to great success!

At the basic level, we're talking loads that run at .44 Special or .45 ACP pressure levels. Maybe .45 ACP +P. But the difference between a 15,500-psi .44 Special load and a 23,000-psi .45 ACP +P load is nothing to the .44 Magnum case and the firearm for which it is chambered. The SAAMI ceiling for the .44 Magnum is 36,000 psi. These light loads in a heavy gun like my Dan Wesson or RedHawk make for a low recoil steady shot

FOr light loads I use 180-grain lead bullet (Specal order Round nose mold from RCBS) and slow down to five grains of Titegroup.(No filler) At its 925-fps velocity, the load just makes major for USPSA/IPSC shooting, the cost in powder is cheap, and the bullet shape is conducive to quick reloading. Were I loading for better accuracy--say, for a match where I'd want to use jacketed bullets--a 180-grain Hornady XTP over 6.3 grains of HP-38 would deliver just under 950 fps--a soft load with plenty of accuracy.

Now a lot of you brought up small game Yes the .44 can do magic and to learn that trick I ask you go look at this web siteDo it yourself Shotshells squirrels rabbits birds anything small with minimum reloading skill. Factory made 44 magnum shotshells run about $1 each. Factory made 22LR shotshells run about 30¢ each. My 44 magnum shotshells cost about 10¢ each.

For larger game try Speer 240gr Gold Dot's.
The load is WLP primer and either Win or Rem brass and 24gr of 296.
I get just under 1800fps in my rifle. ( 1785fps to be exact.)
The factory ammo gets 1845fps in my rifle, but I can't match it without getting sticky extraction.
I have had excellent results with the Gold Dots on hogs, and recovered projectiles all look the same whether they've hit bone or not, perfectly mushroomed with all 8 petals intact. They are a tough bullet.

I have used two jacketed bullets in my 44 mag,handgun and rifle. Hornady XTPS And Speer. The XTP has a chart on the box as I recall showing the intended velocities that they are designed to be used in and I believe they go fairly high. The Speer 240 gr flat point,Semi jacketed, I have killed elk with them using my Marlin94 and recovered the bullet.It looked just like bullets are supposed to look, nicely expanded,but not overly so.

Heavy loads for the .44 cause problems with to much recoil making it hard to get back on target for a quick second shot. I have looked at .44 special loading data but I like to stay at the upper range of that data... Stick to large pistol primers... a large rifle primer will fit but they are a bit taller and take a stronger hit from the hammer... In a SHTF the ability to use either is just another plus for the .44


So once again I contend... For general purpose use on anything from bumble bees to elk... the .44 is the best general purpose single cartridge many guns round you can lay your hands on...

First - emsed1 asked if magazine capacity is more important than stopping power. I think the choice of every military the world over should speak volumes on this subject. If you're in an actual firefight, magazine capacity is everything. You could be shooting bb's for all the enemy cares - the longer you can keep shooting, the longer their heads stay down. It's just that simple.

Shot placement is the number one factor in hunting, in warfare it's a pipe dream (IMO). Taking the time to shoot really well in a combat situation is just as likely to get you killed as get you a kill.

In a situation with large predators, like bear, stopping power is much, much more important than magazine capacity. If you stumble on a bear nursing her cubs or something, you'll be lucky to get one good shot off. You absolutely need that one shot to deliver as much energy as possible to the target and, at the very least, give you time to shoot again, if not kill the thign outright.

Guns are tools. You wouldn't use a hammer to saw through a 4x4, and you wouldn't use a hacksaw to pound a nail (unless you absolutely had no other choice). So - know your guns, know what they're good at, and use the right tool for the right job. I wouldn't dream of bringing a high capacity 9mm into the woods for protection against bears, and I think it would be pretty foolish to bring a five-shot large caliber revolver to a firefight.

The reason I ramble at such length is to make a point about what defines a survival firearm. The .22LR is, in my opinion at least, the multi-tool of the gun world - it can do almost everything (except stop a charging bear), even if it does some things poorly. If you have to have one gun, you're going to make sacrifices.


reply to post by DaddyBare

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Let me tell you why and keep in mind, I share many of your views about the very versatile .22lr... I didn't pick it because it cannot be reloaded where the .44 can...

A very valid point. I don't have any experience reloading so for me it's not a factor - personal bias and nothing more.

rue there's not much rabbit left after a clean hit with a .44 325 gr. but that's what bated snares are for.

Another very valid point. I also believe very firmly that hunting is the least efficient method of putting food on the table, and snares are the most efficient. That said, you can't throw a snare at a squirrel - the .22LR gives you the opportunity to take whatever low hanging fruit you happen across in the woods - be it small or large.

My belief is that lighter is better. You contend that the .44 is the best all around, and I ask - have you ever backpacked with a satchel full of the damn things? I never have, and never would. I cut pounds wherever I can.

The wonderful thing about my little .22 is that it's so light you can carry it all day and all night and barely notice it, it's ridiculously accurate, reliable as sunrise, and I can have several years worth of ammunition tucked away in less space than would be taken up by one additional jar of peanut butter.

I do believe in the necessity of a sidearm in bear country, but even then a .44 wouldn't be my choice. .357 all the way...

reply to post by DaddyBare

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OK Daddybare, I'll play.

The entire thread, I was concurring that the .44 mag round in a wheel gun was likely the most versatile cartridge for the wide range of survival situations.

I reload, and only after finding out you do as well, do I find your logic in all but one thing impeccable.

While many like the fist-busting hot loads, I also used a combination of lighter bullets (that shoot flatter with higher velocity - all other things being equal) and sometimes loaded just a tad above the .44 Special equivalent.

I have to take exception on only one item.

I was carrying a .44 magnum, full 240 grain loads, walking along a lake several miles north of Nome.

The terrain was knobby, and I heard something and stopped, and a big brown bear stood up fifty feet from me, sniffing the air.

Didn't actually stand up, but it kept on and on and on as it stepped up. Absolutely huge.

That .44, as proud as I was of it, was feeling mighty puny. Even had I had a .338 Magnum rifle on me, I still would have required another fifty yards distance before engaging.

The .44 Magnum was certainly a powerful cartridge, but I don't think six would have been enough.

Certainly wouldn't have wanted anything smaller, but compared to this mass, that can outrun a horse in a sprint, I think I'd have been better off putting it to my head.

Accurate? Yes. Versatile? Yes. Good for MOST game out to 100 meters? Yes. Reliable? Yes. Easy to reload? Yes.

Shooting a large bear in self-defense with a .44 magnum is one thing. Even thinking about starting a fight with a large bear while holding a .44 magnum is to run where angels fear to tread.

Good post.

reply to post by dooper

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In the bear situation you described I think it would take me about an M60 to reach any level of confidence. Better to shoot to miss with the .44 and maybe scare it if a person decided to shoot I would think. Shoot to hit and it would probably die eventually but would be in a very bad mood until then.

[edit on 11/6/2009 by beezwaxes]

reply to post by beezwaxes

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I think you make a really good point.

If you're setting up caches, then you don't have to make nearly as many sacrifices. And if you're bugging in, so to speak, you can prepare a great deal more ahead of time.

Sometimes I get fatigued even talking about this stuff because it is so incredibly situational. In one situation I might do one thing, in another situation I'm going to do another thing.

I try hard to restrict my input to specific scenarios, because then at least I can sort of draw boundaries and limit the hypothetical to something I can wrap my head around.

Just a single example, but if I'm not heading out on foot, if the SitX is something that's survivable from the spot where I'm currently at, then a 12 gauge Mossberg is probably my favorite gun, and the one I wouldn't be caught dead without. It's just not something I want to pack around, not to mention the shells, a terrible deal in terms of volume and weight.

I guess my own personal bias clouds my responses too much, because when people say "Survival Gun" my immediate thought is wilderness, on foot, maybe in the winter, foraging, hunting, trapping, fishing. When someone else hears "Survival Gun" they might think zombie invasion for all I know.

Anyway, I'm done rambling, I just thought you brought up a good point about caches, and how they change the equation of what is necessary and what can be considered a survival item.

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