The Three Jahovah's of the Bible

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by saint4God

 

How can the Father and Son be the same exact person? How can Jesus pray to Himself? How can a dead Jesus resurrect Himself from the grave?

3 "persons"; one God. As a poster said above, one God reveals himself in 3 persons. Collectively called "the Godhead". Great mystery isn't it?
As the hymn says "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty. God in three persons, blessed trinity.

Originally posted by pumpkinorange

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by saint4God

 

How can the Father and Son be the same exact person? How can Jesus pray to Himself? How can a dead Jesus resurrect Himself from the grave?

3 "persons"; one God. As a poster said above, one God reveals himself in 3 persons. Collectively called "the Godhead". Great mystery isn't it?
As the hymn says "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty. God in three persons, blessed trinity.

Funny how the Holy Spirit isn't even considered to be equal to the Father or Son. Funny how the Son said in His own words that there was one greater than Him... the Father. If this is true and the trinity has three EQUAL bodies shared by a single God, then there is a contradiction in the bible if you take the trinity doctrine as truth.

reply to post by pumpkinorange

Collectively called "the Godhead". Great mystery isn't it?

The New Testament talks about two mysteries. One is the mystery of Christ, which is the love of Christ. Not us loving Christ, or Christ loving us, but the love that Christ had, being in us. The second mystery is one of rebellion against God and the lack of love, or the law, the thing that defines what true love is, which is to honor God and to not take advantage of other people.
I do not think included in that is a lowering of God to make Christ higher, unless that is in the second type of mystery.


[edit on 31-12-2009 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by Locoman8

Originally posted by pumpkinorange

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by saint4God

 

How can the Father and Son be the same exact person? How can Jesus pray to Himself? How can a dead Jesus resurrect Himself from the grave?

3 "persons"; one God. As a poster said above, one God reveals himself in 3 persons. Collectively called "the Godhead". Great mystery isn't it?
As the hymn says "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty. God in three persons, blessed trinity.

Funny how the Holy Spirit isn't even considered to be equal to the Father or Son. Funny how the Son said in His own words that there was one greater than Him... the Father. If this is true and the trinity has three EQUAL bodies shared by a single God, then there is a contradiction in the bible if you take the trinity doctrine as truth.

Locoman I have already gave proof that the Holy Ghost is a individual and is called God. I have also explained the term "greater" as it refers to position. Jesus is equal to God. There is no contradiction when you consider the fact that these three individuals share all the same attributes as God.
EX. You play guitar right? Think of a C chord. The low C is God the father,the E note is the Holy Ghost, and the high C is the Son. These three notes when played together is a C chord (GOD).This is the most basic form of a chord. this is called a triad. there cannot be a C chord with out these notes. Understand?

reply to post by oliveoil


With your "chord" reference (and yes I'm a musician/guitarist/singer/songwriter) I should exlain to you that a C chord made up of 3 notes is interesting. My last name is "Franklin." My dad's last name is Franklin. My mom's last name is Franklin. My wife's last name is now Franklin. My children, 2 in number, both have the last name "Franklin." My name is Rob. My dad is Kevin. My mom is Debbie. My wife is Lisa. My kids will remain nameless for protection. Point is, every one of these people are part of the same family. They are all different people though. Some are higher in authority too. I am head of my household. My father is head of his household. A "C" chord is one chord. A chord is a family of notes. One note is a single sound played by a single string. A chord is a family of notes played with multiple strings to create a dominant sound or tone. All of these notes played together serve the same purpose but are all different notes... or different strings.

God is a family. The Father and Son. The Spirit of God, or Holy Spirit is not mentioned at all as a member of the family. It is the essence of the family.... the power of the family. The Holy Spirit in the God Family is similar to my "Franklin" family home. My home is my shelter from the outside world. The Holy Spirit is our shelter from worldly things and from Satan.

You may have explained your "trinity" views before but its nothing more than putting a self-serving agenda in play for man made doctrine. You repeatedly tell us that the "trinity" is implied by scripture but I say to you that the Family of God is what's implied in scripture..... Father? Son? Children of God? Father is God because He's the Father of the Family known as "God". Jesus is God because He's the eldest "Son" of the Family of God. God's children will soon be "God" because they will become married into the Family known as "God". The scripture implies this quite easily.

reply to post by Locoman8


reply to post by Locoman8


Locoman, This is where theology comes into play. Your "family of God theory" is correct if you are referring to human nature and what humans consist of, thus being as we mentioned before, a spirit a body and a soul.

Humans are finite and not all knowing and we die, that is the matter we are constructed of dies. Our soul and spirit, which is our life principle is not of matter and lives on.

God Is infinite and is omniscient, and is spirit. He is not constructed of matter and therefore does not die.

Jesus, you could say was part human, thus being born of a virgin and consisting of a body,(which can die) soul and spirit. And part God, thus being pure spirit, omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal.

Point being that your human family, is finite and dies.Your families souls continues but are not omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal ( God can take you out whenever he wants)

Jesus' as a human also dies and his soul continues. however, unlike humans he is omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal.Problem is that you cant have a father and a son both being omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal. It just can't be.

So why did Jesus call God father? First of all, on earth he was not equal to God. Spirit yes, body no.
One of the main reasons he came here was to teach. One of the things he taught was how to pray and who they should direct their prayer to.
If he had said pray to me, he would have been put to death immediately.He taught there is only one father and we are all his children and Jesus was showing them this.

As far as him praying to himself. He was most likely thinking and meditating amongst himself.This is not that unusual.I do it all the time.


I hope your music theory is a little better than your Biblical theory (I'm just kidding)

Happy New Year Rob
peace.

reply to post by oliveoil


Look, you're a somewhat knowledgeable person with theology. I don't agree with the whole trinity thing. You don't agree with my "Family" logic. That's all well and fine but something that I saw on your last post that the bible definitely does not say. You said the "soul" lives on when you die. The "soul" according to the bible means "life". If you're dead, your soul is dead with you. Your spirit, or breath returns to God but has no imprint of you as a person.... it was just your means of life.... your means of breathing. It was borrowed by God. Soul in the OT means "life" and is used for animals as well as humans. It's even interchangeable with "life" in the OT. "Man became a living soul" can be translated as "Man became a living being." When we die, we remain dead until one of two resurrections.... the resurrection of the saints (1st resurrection) and the resurrection of Judgement (2nd resurrection). I'm sure you'll disagree with me on this theological view also but it's true. Happy New Year friend.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by oliveoil

 

Look, you're a somewhat knowledgeable person with theology. I don't agree with the whole trinity thing. You don't agree with my "Family" logic. That's all well and fine but something that I saw on your last post that the bible definitely does not say. You said the "soul" lives on when you die. The "soul" according to the bible means "life". If you're dead, your soul is dead with you. Your spirit, or breath returns to God but has no imprint of you as a person.... it was just your means of life.... your means of breathing. It was borrowed by God. Soul in the OT means "life" and is used for animals as well as humans. It's even interchangeable with "life" in the OT. "Man became a living soul" can be translated as "Man became a living being." When we die, we remain dead until one of two resurrections.... the resurrection of the saints (1st resurrection) and the resurrection of Judgement (2nd resurrection). I'm sure you'll disagree with me on this theological view also but it's true. Happy New Year friend.

Catholic theology Suggests that God is a spirit, The angels are spirit, and man is spirit (lower spirit) ours is the only spirit which is also a soul (which makes us unique) this is the life principle in a body. every living body has one. I'm planing on writing a thread on it after I move and gather all my Sunday school notes. Hope you can contribute.
peace !

PS I think of the Soul as being a bridge or a gap between our spirit and our body. Too much to get into here and now.
peace!

[edit on 1-1-2010 by oliveoil]

reply to post by oliveoil

First of all, on earth he was not equal to God.

Compared to what? Is Jesus not human now? Is he now omniscient?
John the Revelator saw Jesus in spirit. He said those that I hold in my hand, power has been given to me to make sure I do not loose them. (or something to that affect) The point being, alive on earth as a normal person, or glorified in heaven, Jesus still derives his powers from the Father.
Another example, from the same book, the lamb takes the sealed scroll from the hand of the One seated on the throne. There is a transfer of authority, based on merit and not some sort of inherent privilege based on some underlying nature of its being.



[edit on 1-1-2010 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by oliveoil

 

First of all, on earth he was not equal to God.

Compared to what? Is Jesus not human now? Is he now omniscient?
John the Revelator saw Jesus in spirit. He said those that I hold in my hand, power has been given to me to make sure I do not loose them. (or something to that affect) The point being, alive on earth as a normal person, or glorified in heaven, Jesus still derives his powers from the Father.
Another example, from the same book, the lamb takes the sealed scroll from the hand of the One seated on the throne. There is a transfer of authority, based on merit and not some sort of inherent privilege based on some underlying nature of its being.



[edit on 1-1-2010 by jmdewey60]

Hi Jmdewey,
I meant that he took on the form of human which is finite meaning he can die. us humans are not equal to god in that aspect. Maybe I should have been a little clearer

reply to post by oliveoil

Catholic theology Suggests that God is a spirit

There is where your problem lies. It's CATHOLIC theology! What about the biblical doctrine? Is there any biblical authority saying our soul or a spirit in us separate from our bodies? No! But it does say that if we become spirit, we are transformed into the form of a spirit. Our bodies become spirit.... not separate from a spirit form of us.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by oliveoil

 

Catholic theology Suggests that God is a spirit

There is where your problem lies. It's CATHOLIC theology! What about the biblical doctrine? Is there any biblical authority saying our soul or a spirit in us separate from our bodies? No! But it does say that if we become spirit, we are transformed into the form of a spirit. Our bodies become spirit.... not separate from a spirit form of us.

lol
Yes, yes I understand this. I am aware that this is just theory(not my theory) and is not written in stone. But in their defense, they actually encourage different thought . It just seems like they have more answers that made sense to me than anyone. I know because I'm on a thirty year mission of been there done that.

I quoted my theory. obviously there's more to it than this.

PS I think of the Soul as being a bridge or a gap between our spirit and our body. Too much to get into here and now.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

So it was this three in one or within three persons God who walked through Eden searching for Adam and Eve when they had broken the grenade? FGS

Yes, and there is only one God like you say. the Holy Ghost and Jesus and the Father are all he. Didn't you read the God Jesus ant post in BTS. It explains everything.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by oliveoil]

So I am my father and a ghost? Or is it only Jesus who is his own father and ghost? I tell, you Jesjuah even has a son, he's about ten these days, and his name is Eli. Sarah, Jesjuah's daughter is younger than her brother and likes to play with her ball, she's quite reckless, a little jinn, to her older brother's irritation. Jesjuah always show Eli the angry face, while Rosie giggles saying Sarah is just like her father used to be.... Have you ever even met them? He, Jesjuah, looks something like this:

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

So it was this three in one or within three persons God who walked through Eden searching for Adam and Eve when they had broken the grenade? FGS

Yes, and there is only one God like you say. the Holy Ghost and Jesus and the Father are all he. Didn't you read the God Jesus ant post in BTS. It explains everything.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by oliveoil]

So I am my father and a ghost? Or is it only Jesus who is his own father and ghost? I tell, you Jesjuah even has a son, he's about ten these days, and his name is Eli. Sarah, Jesjuah's daughter is younger than her brother and likes to play with her ball, she's quite reckless, a little jinn, to her older brother's irritation. Jesjuah always show Eli the angry face, while Rosie giggles saying Sarah is just like her father used to be.... Have you ever even met them? He, Jesjuah, looks something like this:

LOL, give them all my best.

Originally posted by oliveoil

LOL, give them all my best.

Well, thinking how it took me almost twelve years to meet him for a second time, I'll perhaps be able to forward your regards in about 2020.... Will you foregive me if I forget it?

reply to post by oliveoil



(From page 3)

Originally posted by oliveoil
I know this. however , point being maid is that they had to come from earlier records as these are original manuscripts. Perhaps maybe ones that were destroyed.

That’s just the thing, there is no evidence to support the “Perhaps, maybe”, lol theory, that they were destroyed.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Yes, but what other books are these missing? why should these be considered authentic and not the ones that do contain the comma?

Once again, there is a bigger/older historical evidence, for the documents, not containing the comma, that can be verified. We can only really speculate, about the source/reason for the documents containing the comma.

If there were to be found, older documents containing the comma, then that, would substantiate your theory. However, that would also create a slight dilemma, as to why such a split took place in the first place? and which version came first?. Currently, the latter dilema doesn't exist!

Originally posted by oliveoil
Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.


Not only this, but they are all three seen together and separate in the baptism of Jesus.

Thought you might quote that one lol

Yes, but the Holy Spirit, depending on which bible version your reading and which verse, is either written as “Holy Ghost” Holy Spirit” or “the Spirit of God”. So the above verse, could quite easily have been written, as “The Spirit of God said/spoke”.

“The Spirit of God” IMO is the best description we have for the “Holy Spirit”…

IMO ”The Sprit of God” description, does not infer another separate entity, other than God himself.


- JC


PS – Sorry for late reply…I’ve only just got back…

Happy New Year…

reply to post by Joecroft


Good post. The Spirit of God.... or God's Power or force. Why don't the trinitarians get this?

reply to post by Locoman8



Thanks Locoman

I'm not sure why they dont get it...beats me...

I think from here on in though, I'm going to refer to the "Holy Spirit" as The Spirit of God, rather than "Gods active force", which is how I used to phrase it. This is partly because "Gods active force", kind of sounds less personal than the phrase, Spirit of God...





- JC

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo

Originally posted by oliveoil


This confirms that he is a deity.

However there's another that has the same characteristics that only Jahovah,Yahweh,Lord, or God has.His name is Jesus. His name also appears many times. here are two examples of what is said about him.


This confirms that Jesus is a deity

The third Jahovah, or God would be the Holy Spirit.

This confirms that the Holy Spirit is a deity.

As you can see, Three separate Deities all claiming to be God.

Some would say since there can be only one true God ,All of these Gods would have to be the same. I agree. What do you think?

"confirms he is A deity"? Would not God be "THE" deity?

Jehovah is a translation. It's not in the Hebrew.

We have one God who has revealed Himself to us in 3 Persons. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. The use of the word "Persons" does not mean individual persons like a brother, a sister and a mother but rather goes to speak about the WHO of God.

To use an analogy, I am not only a husband but a father and also a son and to each, my wife, my child and my mother I reveal myself to them differently yet I am the same one person. Now every analogy fails when pressed too far but it gives an idea of what the Trinity is.

It's not 3 separate gods but rather 1 God who reveals Himself in 3.

i think you both make a lot of presumptions.

first you have a book. whether its inspired by "god" or not, you, the reader, must make an interpretation. every single sentence must be decided by YOU as to what it means.

this is usually loosely based on all christian interpretations that have gone before you. there is no great radical departure from those beliefs you have been raised with.

you have a finite mind and presume to know a lot about an infinite mind which is totally inconceivable to you.
to bring in words like "person" and use dualistic terms like son, mother etc. totally misses the mark IMHO.