Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling

We are an intelligent and civilized people my friend. We can put our head together and think of truly proactive better ways to protect the children and people we love than these highly emotional reactive ways.

We can do that if we try. Thanks friend.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by thoughtsfull

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Excuse me, as I said, I would dig out the sources for you, at which point you can debunk them. I only brought to the table to fact that children do start as abusers and some continue for 30 to 50 years.. I would say that has a lot to do with the numbers being thrown around.

And most end up being abused by family/friends.. it appears you are placing blame on them, so I just want to clarify, are you?

And if you read my posts then you would know I do not support this at all as I personally feel the demise of the abuser in any manner when considering the emotional programming that has taken place, and the fact that it would most likely be a family member/family friend IMHO would simply compound the guilt of the survivor, and potentially lead to more survivor suicides.

That pretty much sums up every 2 or 3 year old molested, raped or murdered.

reply to post by thoughtsfull

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Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you friend. I was just illustrating further to you how figures in relation to these things are hard to rely upon as being accurate.

You are very right that many people who have had their core sexuality formed through being victimized by deviant sexual acts end up sexual deviants themselves as it is those acts of deviance that form the initial foundation and basis for their sexuality.

The reality is that many people who are victimized to have powerful sexual reactions because of the very nature of the fact that it is a natural occurunce and creates a natural reaction even when that natural occurence is visited upon them in amoral and criminal ways.

This often leads to confusion, uncertainty and in some cases guilt as well as creating hard to overcome sexual fetishes at the base of their core sexuality.

Many victims will be their own choice seek out people to victimize them in more controlled circumstances as they reach maturity. Other victims will in fact become victimizers as a result of how their core sexuality has been effected.

The psychcological make of victims is a very complex one and believe it or not part of their ongoing trauma is over the punishment off their victimizers.

Most people who haven't been a victim or made a serious study of these things haven't a clue as far as the true complexity involved with being a victim.

Please filter out what doesn't apply to you friend, as I speak to you in this public forum I am speaking to everyone at the same time.

I didn't mean to offend you. Thanks. It looks like you have put some real thought into these issues and that's commendable.

www.yellodyno.com...
I know that this is a hot issue and one that would get a large range of emotions going but for those who think it is alright to kill a child rapist and or a child molestore, the question for them I have is this:
What about the 17 yo teenager for having sex with a 15 yo girl? Does this punishment warrent that kind of punishment? After all it would be considered statory rape, even if the girl wanted it.
Or how about the parent or close family member, how do you tell the child, that because of their testimony or the persons actions, this caused the death of a close family member?
I am not supporting Child rapists and molesters, but I also can not see where killing them is the correct punishment for that crime. I think that alot of the laws, have to be read and then updated, as well as, the appropirate punishments. I do believe that a person who harms a child should be punished harshly, yet at the same time the question, how much is spent on rehabilitation for such offenders? We say they should not live near children, yet there is no real community for them to live so the problem exists as it is a viscious cycle. Create a seperate community and someone calls foul, yet they cry foul if one lives in their neighborhood.

No because their ages are so similar and although it is statutory rape, technically rape, it is not paedophilia.








Well you wouldn't tell them that would you?

And why would the person be dead?

They would be told that what the person did was wrong and have to have years of counselling and therapy to deal with the issues.

Yes it surely does Slayer, and most of it was entirely preventable in 20/20 hindsight.

We aren't taking our Monday Morning Quarterback Experiences and putting them to good use on the playing field though friend.

Reactive, retroactive retribution does little to proactively protect the most vulnerable.

A corrupted mind is impossible to uncorrupt unless you get into lobotomies and what not.

Deterrents don't actually work against deviants with corrupted minds friend.

Their corrupted mind and deviance is ultimately going to hold sway over the fear of possible future punishment. That's down the road, their urgent need is today.

How do we better protect the at risk population today? Retribution won't do that, it just weans the potential victimizer pool down.

You can't apply your sane mind's your non-deviant mind's standards to an insane one or a deviant one and realistically expect them to mean anything.

In fact some even invite the additional challenges to up the adrenalin anti Slayer.

It's about protecting these kids, truly protecting them.

Personally as a parent I wanted to just lock my kids in the closet until they turned 18! That's the extreme I wanted to protect them.

I know what goes on out there in the world. I am not naive or blind to it.

The argument for retribution should not be mixed with the argument for protection in my humble opinion.

The reality is retribution has never stopped these crimes and it never will stop these crimes.

As far as the argument for retribution goes, uncivilized retribution doesn't highlight a need for civilized behavior but promotes the concept that there are circumstances where we need not be civilized. The more often you do that the more widely such standards will end up being applied in the society the government is simply a reflection of.

If death must occur instead of imprisonment or surgery then it should be swift, and humane.

As civilized as an uncivilized thing can be.

Otherwise you do end up promoting a barbarous society. Is not half the argument against the Islamic East in regards to some of its more barbarous behavior and justice?

A condom might help you not catch a sexual disease, ultimately abstaining is the only thing that will guarantee it.

Therefore the only thing that's going to stop predators is keeping children safe from them. We don't know they are predators until their predatory behavior is successful though. The trick is keeping the herd safe from them by keeping the herd better guarded.

That's common sense friend. How do we better guard the herd?




[edit on 3/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Edit to remove to much detail.



[edit on 4/11/09 by thoughtsfull]

reply to post by thoughtsfull

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My apologies friend and condolences and regrets on all you have to suffer. As I have said being a victim sadly and tragically does lead to a very complex set of thoughts and challenges including dissociative disorder. I know some people who suffer from it as well as a result of similar occurrences and I know being an advocate is a difficult and selfless noble thing to do as it requires one to relive the circumstances again and again that led to disassociation.
It takes a brave and noble soul and is a testament to the inherent good in humans to be so dedicated and motivated.

I hope the future brings you some much better things that you can truly and thoroughly enjoy.

Rest well and be well, and should you find a time to post your research I look forward to reading it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Proto, it really is disturbing the lengths you go to in your posts to defend child murderers and rapists, in EVERY thread in which they are the topic. I'm not going to jump into this one and go round and round with you, again...i just don't know if you're aware of how you come across, but i'm sure you don't really care anyway.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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First of all forgive me for not having read the articles you refer to, I've a lot of heavy reading today.

Would a possible solution to the conditions on this island be to give planning permission for some sanitation and electrical installation paid for by the inhabitants themselves?

If these people are working and earning money they they could be organised to each contribute to a fund which could be used to buy basic shelter. Washrooms, a communal sitting room or dormitory, for example.

It might be best to get people used to the idea they could be there for the long haul and at least build themselves these basic amenities.

I am not suggesting this out of any sort of sympathy for these individuals, it just seems like a workable solution to a social problem.

Something that did concern me is the idea that paeodophiles are now more likely to kill children to ensure their silence because they are worried about the way they will be treated if caught.

Up to now, it's been easy to think that the state makes the rules in respect of punishing criminals. If a person commits a crime, they have a rough idea of what to expect if they get caught and some are prepared to risk it.

Now we have a group who appear to be negotiating what their punishment should be and if society doesn't comply they will murder its children. It's often been said how manipulative and controlling child molesters can be and this seems to be a prime example of it.

reply to post by sos37

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....yeah....

So putting him to death via lethal injection or electric chair is some how less satisfying than cutting his head off?

The guy is going to die, why do you take pleasure in the method?

IMO, people who think this way are one bad day away from being tomorrow's headline as just another serial killer


*edited to clarify a point*

[edit on 3-11-2009 by Snarf]

Im sorry if that was my child he raped and murdered, I would be demanding the death penalty. I do not care if I am shot down for stateing my opinion on the matter, if you take in innocent childs life like this, then you deserve, what ever comes your way.

It is funny that this happens in Sauda Arabia, the international community does not criticise them or anything. But if this happened in Iran or North Korea, The international community, would be jumping all over each other criticezing them.

Sorry which country would that be?

Gotta say, the death penalty in Saudi Arabia for child rapists is totally death metal.

reply to post by berenike

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Hi friend, A commission has been appointed to try to find them other shelter. In reality they are being sheltered on what is park land/public property.

Keep in mind though that not all the sexual offenders there are pedophiles. Any type of sexual battery, rape or other crime related to sex gets you a sexual offender tag for life.

One of the women living under the bridge took a plea bargain to get out of jail on a dubious case to say the least and was mortified to find out that have 60 days in jail on what would have been a charge that nets 2 years in prison also now requires living out her life under a bridge!

It's a messy situation that is such a political hot potatoe that even as the ACLU presses the issue in Court not a county commissioner wants to be seen as being sympathetic towards.

The law is based on you can not operate a bar or an adult book store or stip club within 4500 square feet of a playground or school. So they used the same formula for sex offenders, only the only places that meet that criteria are commercially and not residentially zoned.

I don't know the solution for the problem, there is an inherrent risk in giving such people a full second chance, but it's also creating a problem in regards to Double Jeapordy Laws which are unconstitutional.

It's probably going to take the Federal Government stepping in at some point and making a ruling on it.

People are still missing all together that retributive punishments are not keeping these crimes from happening.

They keep wanting to focus on retributive punishment as a means to deter these crimes and I do believe that just further endangers children as real solutions to better protect Children aren't being actively sought out.

Clearly the current system does not protect children as well as it should and does nothing to protect them against previously unidentified predators.

The people want their pound of flesh, that's easier than a cure for people who crave a pound of flesh.

Thanks for putting some thought into it friend.

Actually you won't find any defense of Child Molesters or Murderers in any thread I post on dealing with the subject.

What I don't condone is acting in a manner towards them as abhorrent as their own crimes.

That's not a defense of them sir, that's a defense of my own humanity and civilized nature which I won't be giving up or encouraging anyone else to any time soon.

I am rather in fact defending you and everyone else from the same figurative demons you want to put an end too by not reacting in a similarly ghastly fashion.

What I am a strong advocate for is protecting children and at risk people by strengthening their real security not imagining their security is enhanced by executing sole offenders after they have already committed an offence.

How that gets construed to as a defense of such criminals through some vague notion of providing comfort to them by making their punishments more humane is beyond me friend.

In reality it seems more like a ploy to advocate for exercising blood lust and doing nothing to strengthen real protections for children and potential victims by making their environments more secure proactively.

Is it me defending the predators or is you not wanting to get serious about proactively protecting children in favor of exercising your blood lust against those who already have?

Look up retribution and then look up solution in the dictionary, two entirely different words friend, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure friend.

As an alternative to death sentences, why not make a law that would legalize and require the surgical removal of a convicted rapist/pedophile's sex organ? In the case of male offenders, perhaps remove their d*cks and testicles? I couldn't think of a more effective deterrent (and a more appropriate form of punishment) than rendering such people incapable of "performing" sexual intercourse. But in the case of females... well, perhaps require them to wear one of those modern-day chastity belts? That way, they won't even be capable of "stimulating" themselves if they wanted to. Better than letting those bastards off the hook so easily by killing them via death sentence.

Of course human rights will always be an issue, but hey, people like that guy who raped five kids and left one dead in the desert already gave up his right to be called "human".

reply to post by sos37

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Beheading is not a swift and painless process.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you want the full gruesome REAL experience of what it looks like for someone to be beheaded, check out that link.

I think this species needs to evolve.

reply to post by whatukno

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However that's not how they would carry out the sentence. The videos in question were designed to strike terror. A state beheading is done quickly and swiftly with a single chop like the guillotine. Not with a large Kitchen knife.