Is Yahweh the Supreme Creator or an Evil God?

reply to post by CrypticSouthpaw


I don't know where Cryptic went or why he ended up being banned but he makes some pertinent points that I feel should not be relegated to the void of forgetfulness. It would be great if he were able to return to share more of his insights with us.

Identification problems and idolism

Even though I don’t share the views in most of the posts in this thread, I nevertheless find them interesting. So thanks a lot folks. Here are some personal views of my own I like to add on the God(s) of Israel. Hopefully someone find it interesting.

Identifying old ‘Gods’ based on ancient texts are next to impossible. Not only because they came to Earth so very long time ago, but also because different nations all named them differently. To further complicate it all, everyone had a multitude of names, nicknames and aliases. Thus the general rule probably seems to have been that the more important and famous a person was, the more names he got. To complicate it even more, many names (like for instance the Sumerian Enlil,Enki and Ensi and more) were not really names, but titles. Thus there existed more than one Enlil and Enki’s in the past. It was also common that sons of powerful Gods and King inherited their fathers titles and names when they died. This gives us a clue of how difficult it actually is to pinpoint and identify people from this ancient period.

But trying to identify the ‘God’ of Israel is even more complicated, because this alien did about everything he could to avoid anyone to seeing his face or even know his name . He had an almost paranoid fear of idolism, and in this way he probably hoped to avoid being idolized in the future. Thus he even made it a law not to ever mention him by any names at all or to make any statues of him ever.

The timeline

The alien colonist who we recognize as the “The God of Israel” is mentioned in Genesis for the very first time shortly after Abram is born. That means that he (and his men) suddenly appeared on the scene (out of nowhere) some 292 years after the great flood.

They left Earth some 50 years after the state of Israel was founded. That was about 900 years after the great flood. Thus we can conclude that the god of Israel (and his men) stayed on Earth for a total period of about 600 years. So how do we know they left Earth in this period? Well, we know this because when Solomon first installed the Arch in the first temple, he states that it had not been in use for 480 years.
We know from ancient texts (The legends of the Jews) that this Arch (as mentioned above) was a communication device. If Solomon claimed it had not been used for 480 years, that can only mean that the aliens had left Earth by then, and that they no longer could be reached by using this communication device.

I have written an article about the two Arch’s explaining what they were in an earlier post on ATS. Those of you who are interested in this kind of stuff can read the article here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

YHWH

Christian and Jewish scholars translates the four letters (YHWH) as Yahweh, and claims that this was the name of the “God” of Israel. The name is also often translated as Jehovah, while others translates it into meaning ‘to become’ , ‘ to be’ or ‘he who is’ and other such similar meanings. In the Zohar the letters IHWH is used instead.

In the third book of Enoch we can however read that it is not only the pre flood alien leader alone that was named YHWH, but also all the senior officers was titled as YHWH. Thus I conclude that the letters YHWH is not a name at all, but are merely an abbreviation. I would therefore strongly suggest that YHWH is ‘short’ for the name of the organization these aliens belonged to , like for instance like NASA is short for National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

Who was the God of Israel

The short answer is that we don’t know exactly. IMV, there are two scenarios. He (and his men) were either some descendants of the Sumerian Anuna Gods (probably Enki) , or they were an entirely new group of aliens that arrived Earth for the first time in this period.

Evil is evil. Fear should not create nor force love. It is difficult to identify all the destruction and weakness of a so called god to the hope and faith of man.

I am becoming a non believer. In fact I have written a letter to the non god, if that is even possible. I know it is stupid but I as a human have more love, logic and control than a supposed god. I would never kill my children or my dogs because of ...... anything. That in itself is evil.

wylekat
Fine. Now open that magic book of yours and tell me why God created pure evil, and let it run loose- instead of just destroying Lucifer outright.

what fun would that be?

besides what would you do with YOUR life?

Maddogkull
I just cant get my head over the christian religion. Whats the point in makeing galaxys, planets and stars, if only earth is the planet that has life on it. Sounds pointless to me lol.

got to prove it first.

sorry.

wylekat
reply to post by sylvie

 

so maybe it's not in his nature to destroy.

I have seen and experienced destruction at the hands of someone who is extremely powerful.. not mass destruction, but precise, pinpoint destruction of certain things that has left me well more than ruined for the rest of my life (and no, I wont say what... I am tired of typing the same crap out time and again.). I spent almost a complete year going to everyone from pastors to wiccans, and I have gotten... NOTHING. Nothing but a look that says it all: "you...what?! Huh?"

The only thing I have accomplished is the absolute impossible... I have gotten EVERY religion to agree what I have been thru is just *not* possible. Not by God's hand, or anyone else's. Leaving me... frustrated, confused, and not a little PO'd.

To say God doesn't like destruction is about the same as saying I dont use O2 in my body when I breathe.

Oh, and BTW- I aimed that last statement at the Christian... They crap themselves double when someone asks that question- especially from a former christian. I want to see one, just ONE Christian answer that question without breaking a sweat, and in their own words, and not going for the bible and just typing out a bunch of stuff they THINK will cover it (and it just DOESNT.).

what question is that?

i missed it? God like's destruction?
that's it?

i think you have trials and tribulations, not destruction. you wouldn't be here if it was.
God wants the best for us, always.

anyway, you are not open to anything else but your own views about it.
so no one can help you.

crap, i got to start reading the dates on these things.

It does take a lot of work and a lot of reading from different ancient texts to try and piece together what happened so very long ago; especially as most of what was written has been lost or corrupted or edited to hide its truth.

I do believe it's true that the Torah mixes together at least two entirely different 'gods' (alien visitors) and presents them as the same Being, which has led to centuries of total confusion by all who read it.

It seems true after checking translations myself that Christ never says his Father is YHWH in the NT - he is told that his father is YHWH by others, plus others proclaim it to be true in the NT; but Christ himself doesn't say that - not even when being interogated by the Romans.

There are many names in the Torah given to 'god' and having asked Jews scholars about this none of them feel these are seperate gods, but all the same god - however, read as a whole it does feel as though some of the names; particularly EL ELYON ('the most high god') are specific Beings - as it seems that El Elyon was more important and powerful than YHWH and that El Elyon was the benevolent creator god - this can be read mainly in Genesis when you read what is actually written in the Hebrew, rather than the common dumb English translations where every different 'god word' is written as either 'lord' or 'god' or 'lord god'.

I definitely believe from what I've studied so far that the Father Christ refers to is the early benevolent 'god' of the Elohim race of creators, and not the malevolent war-god of Israel who was adopted by the proto-Jewish peoples.

reply to post by sylvie


Sylvie,

You ask some good questions. I'm not so sure I know the answers that you seek but I know who would. That person is you, Sylvie. You obviously have the depth & ability to contemplate these things you need to develop an intuition about these things as well. It may not be the case that YHWH is evil but he may not be all good or all powerful either. Maybe he is a little bit like the world he created, you know, some good & some bad. I don't know. What do you think. Or rather what do you intuit? What "feels" right to you?

Also the demiurge is not necessarily an "evil" being. He just may have some qualities that aren't considered good. One thing I will say is that someone incorrectly informed you about the Gnostics. They do not believe that Lucifer is God. I suppose it is possible that there are some people who consider themselves to be Gnostic that would believe that just like there are some Americans who would say Toledo Ohio is THE all American town. Gnostic's don't all have one set of beliefs. The book you quoted "secret gospel of john" is considered a Gnostic text as are most extrabiblical scripture. If you would be willing to check into Gnosticism again let me suggest that don't seek out Gnostics but rather seek out "Gnostic Christians" I think they would be more attuned to what you seek.

As for Jesus Christ vs YHWH. From my understanding Christ is on par with / perhaps the male counterpart of Pistis / Sophia who created YHWH. There are some Gnostics that believe that Jesus came down to get people to rebel against YHWH. Let me know if you are still reading this & if I should bother to write more. Best of luck & God bless.

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
- Richard Dawkins
There is plenty of evil in “the Good Book,” but here are some highlights:
1. God drowns the whole earth.
In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.
2. God kills half a million people.
In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.
3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.
In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites – men, women, children, infants, and their cattle – for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier.
6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.
In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)
7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.
In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: “Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.
8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks.
In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
9. God burns two cities to death.
In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.
10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.
In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears “maul” the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means “to tear apart.”)
11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.
In Judges 21:1-23, a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.
12. 3,000 crushed to death.
In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.
13. A concubine raped and dismembered.
In Judges 19:22-29, a mob demands to rape a godly master’s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, cuts her into 12 pieces, and ships the pieces around the country.
14. Child sacrifice.
In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God’s favor in killing the Ammonites.
15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.
In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.
16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.
In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.
17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.
In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother’s widow.
In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother’s widow.
19. God threatens forced cannibalism.
In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.
20. The coming slaughter.
According to Revelation 9:7-19, God’s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth’s population. If he came today, that would be 2 billion people.
Now, Christians have spent thousands of years coming up with excuses for a loving god that would allow or create such evil. In fact, they’ve come up with 12 basic responses, which are the subject of The Tale of the Twelve Officers.
- See more at: commonsenseatheism.com...

reply to post by in17years

in17years

It seems true after checking translations myself that Christ never says his Father is YHWH in the NT - he is told that his father is YHWH by others, plus others proclaim it to be true in the NT; but Christ himself doesn't say that - not even when being interogated by the Romans.

And the Pharisees who do worship Yahweh, Jesus said they were children of the devil being liars and hypocrites and happily doing his will. (John 8:44)

in17years

I definitely believe from what I've studied so far that the Father Christ refers to is the early benevolent 'god' of the Elohim race of creators, and not the malevolent war-god of Israel who was adopted by the proto-Jewish peoples.

Jesus died on the cross referring to "Elyon" , not Yahweh. According to Mark and Matthew he died on the cross saying this:

Eli Eli Lema Sabachthani?

Which means "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

Notice how he calls "God" , "El" (which is the main title for The One God - The Most High - Elyon)

In ancient texts, before the bible was written, Elyon was still know to be The Most High but he was also called "The Compassionate One".

a reply to: dunwichwitch

Ah, the perspective....
Let's apply that to a situation of rape. A little girl experiences being raped by her father. From HER perspective, the rape is experienced as something negative, a breach of trust, a shattering of the world as she knew it. From HER FATHER'S perspective, the rape is experienced as something POSITIVE. Because he is a sadistic asshole with no conscience it felt good to get the sexual release he was looking for. Besides, he knows she will be available later, and if he coaxes her right, he most likely won't be found out. God and Jesus, being non-existant OR uncaring, experiences the event as flat on the emotion scale, or doesn't even experience it at all, which is the reason they don't intervene. Like any entity with a NORMAL perspective on morals would. Alternatively, these "Gods" may actually be evil, and may in subtle ways actully spur on such situations, or get some sort of pleasure out of it.

See what I just did there? I demolished this whole "Perspective"-excuse people have sloppily constructed to defend their "Gods" (devils, IF they exist) from ever doing ANYTHING to heal the world from it's boundless, neverending suffering. Hope you got it.

Is Yahweh the Supreme Creator or an Evil God?

If we refer to revelation 13.1 it is easy to see who is evil or not.

Revelation 13,1.

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The observer stands on the sand of the sea and observes a beast rise up out of the sea. In revelation 17:15 a angel explains what the sea represents.

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The beast is not a creature or a animal. The beast is the multitue of People. These People are not guided by God or Satan, but by politics.

Non of the 10 horns fallow God. They proclaim to be Gods substitute on Earth. That is why they each have a Crown.

Why does the Pope sit upon the beast? The beast is the multitude of People. A multitude of People fallow the Pope. The multitude of People carry and support the Pope. The Pope would not sit on the beast if no one fallowed him.

a reply to: sylvie

Try to accept the fact that you will probably never really know. This realization is over-looked in today's world!

a reply to: spy66

But in REALITY, it is YHWH and his son Jesus that are evil, not the multitude of people. This is proven again and again in the Bible:
Moses under YHWH's command:
Numbers 31
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Jesus, acting like no "God of love" could reasonably be expected to behave:

Matthew 10:34-37

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
-
So they're both evil, which renders the obvious conclusion that THEIR blame cast upon us, that WE'RE evil must actually be false. WE are born sinless, but are often tainted by religion during our upbringing. Jesus died for his own reign, not for our sins. I don't take a "God" who has himself killed and revives himself and calls it a "sacrifice" seriously anyway. It's actually quite insane, and I think the degree of insanity in the judeo/christian/islamic nightmare has actually worked IN FAVOUR of it's spreading. It's so insane people are afraid NOT to believe it.

a reply to: malmanomar

Before Moses met anyone. Adam and Eve met the Angel of light. The angel With the knowledge of Good and Evil.

This angel was cast out of heaven and into Earth.

The light and voice that Moses was communication With. How could Moses know for sure that it was God and not the Angel of light With the knowledge of Good and Evil that he was actually communicating With?

There is also a verse in the Bibel that state that you might be communicating With some one other than God. So be aware.

According to scripture there is only one angel that hates God and his creation.

a reply to: spy66

I'm confused. How can you use an account that hasn't happened yet as proof of one thing or another?