Originally posted by chissler
The topic of this thread keeps getting missed. I'm not asking if it is right or wrong. Personally, I've reached the point where I don't care if you think it is right or wrong. What I am asking is whether or not it is right that society views some as worse than others?

To the people speaking against what I am saying here, answer the following questions.

1. Would you comfortably use the "N" word in a public place surrounded by strangers?

I have. In context I used it with anger too.

2. Would you comfortably use homophobic slurs in a public place surrounded by strangers?

Again I have.


You see, when Im being accosted by a mob of dark skinned people calling me a white c*** and prety much OK with making sure any slur they use is made in an effort to insult me, I will be inclined to return the favour.

It's ironic. Certain people ar allowed to call others a derogatory name while I was the one ostracised at the moment for my retort. That is what this should reflect, the inequality on attidudes. Do you only care if a gay or a dark person is attacked with "WORDS" or is it across the board. Otherwise your argument is slanted.

Again, as a heterosexual male, have you encountered the kind of slander that can be cast on you if you happen to be in a group of gay men? Down right bollocks if you ask me, they can be mean and catty.

DO I go out of my way to say these things? Not at all, far from it. But I will give as good as I get.

Despite the criticism the casual observer will give as they walk past, hearing my racist, homophobic arrogant ignorant diatribe. Easier to just sit on your hands and let society walk all over me, but I would rather keep breathing than suffocate in the arrogant toxic air of PC.

Answer honestly, if you will.

The simple fact is that there are a lot of people that are comfortable using some slurs in society, and not others. So whether the use of the slur is right or wrong, whether it's about people just being too sensitive. None of that is what we're talking about here. The issue is the lack of parity.

Until we as a people learn (cough) that its not ok on all counts, then we will never get anywhere.

Martyrs are only good for those who care. The rest of us live with it.

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
It's ironic. Certain people ar allowed to call others a derogatory name while I was the one ostracised at the moment for my retort. That is what this should reflect, the inequality on attidudes. Do you only care if a gay or a dark person is attacked with "WORDS" or is it across the board. Otherwise your argument is slanted.

Not at all, it was the examples I used however.

As I've said, hatred is hatred and ignorance is ignorance. I should not be ridiculed or insulted on my skin color, orientation of religion, just as everyone else should be free from it. It is equally immoral to insult someone for being black as it is white, for being gay as it is being straight. This also reinforces my assertion of a lack of parity as certain groups are expected to tolerate a level of abuse.

Originally posted by chissler

Originally posted by fraterormus
Yet, how are slurs any different?

Because the person spewing the slur defends the spreading of this hatred as some god given right through freedom of speech and conveniently denies the self-serving component that is associated with this sort of behavior. It forever goes unacknowledged that these slurs usually make the individual feel better about themselves in some twisted manner.

Stems from insecurities, in my opinion.

It is in fact someone’s god given right to be an ignorant racist, and use any type of derogatory term they so wish, You are confusing free speech for an actual physical attack on someone because they are different then you.

Originally posted by chissler
The topic of this thread keeps getting missed. I'm not asking if it is right or wrong. Personally, I've reached the point where I don't care if you think it is right or wrong. What I am asking is whether or not it is right that society views some as worse than others?

To the people speaking against what I am saying here, answer the following questions.

1. Would you comfortably use the "N" word in a public place surrounded by strangers?

2. Would you comfortably use homophobic slurs in a public place surrounded by strangers?

Answer honestly, if you will.

The simple fact is that there are a lot of people that are comfortable using some slurs in society, and not others. So whether the use of the slur is right or wrong, whether it's about people just being too sensitive. None of that is what we're talking about here. The issue is the lack of parity.

Yes I have and yes I will if I feel the situation warrants the dropping of slurs.

Here is a few times when I have used it in public around a large group of people.

1.) My wife and I were out shopping for Xmas gifts, we had stopped by Family dollar to pick up some cleaning stuff( because its cheaper). She bumped into a guy (because she wasn’t paying attention to where she was going) (black guy) She apologized to him, but in return he starting yelling, screaming, and cussing at her. In return I stepped in (My wife is 5'6 this guy was 6'2) told him to stand down, it was an accident there was no since in getting upset. He in return attempted to bully and intimidate me ( even after his wife told him to knock it off it was an accident) I gave him a final warning and told him I won’t tolerate it. He got louder and cussed some more, now I am ready for a fight, I called him a n****r * after he had called me a H****y (stupid childish action on both our parts) but I didn’t back down he didn’t and we resorted to name calling. A few other blacks who happened to be around broke us up, but didn’t blame me or fault me for dropping the N bomb on him saying he was acting like one.
So yeah I have said it in public and wouldn’t hesitate in saying it again.

2.) A gay guy was being loudly obnoxious at a restaurant, I calmly told him to calm down, he said I was being prejudice because he was gay, I told him I could care less if you and your boyfriend here want to sword fight in your bedroom, but when you’re in public you should act like a man, put some base in your voice, and stop acting like a little fairy.

Was I being acting like a child, yeah. Do I care, no. Would I say it again anytime I feel the situation deserves it.

When I was a child, there was a time that I was called several things that seriously hurt my feelings and made me angry.

My grandmother taught me a saying. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me"

I gave it a whirl and felt much better.

Those were the good ol' days.

Originally posted by chissler


1. Would you comfortably use the "N" word in a public place surrounded by strangers?

2. Would you comfortably use homophobic slurs in a public place surrounded by strangers?

The answer to both questions is, yes I would and have.

I can't help if people are to ignorant to realize the only reason those words are hateful is because they let them be.

Originally posted by chissler

Stems from insecurities, in my opinion.

That is always true; from one child calling another a name in Kindergarten to make them cry to an adult in an Armani Suit harassing a fat person on a plane to draw attention to himself and approval from the other passengers; which they will likely get.

You have done it without thinking and so have I. I agree the target does not matter it is the act. But for parity in the law the list would be like trying to make half the dictionary illegal.

The shoe is often on the other foot these days. Is it any more fair to accuse people of Racism because they are opposed to Obama or Homophobia simply because they are Conservative?

Part of what drives this in our culture is that many have learned to use this as a weapon. How often do we see an attack on people due to an unfortunate choice of words when in fact they may well be innocent. It was used as a powerful weapon in our last elections.

Then we have those who would never in a million years engage in a Homophobic slur or a Racist slur, but would not hesitate to verbally assault a fat person or somebody who was dressed badly in public.

Right now our own government is engaged in what amounts to the same thing in its assault of the obese or those with unhealthy lifestyles. Do you really want the government to decide what makes up hate speech or enforce any kind of laws to do with it?

What constitutes hate speech is very generational (if I'm using that word correctly ). When I was young the word Gay meant happy and cheerful and if somebody called you gay it was a positive statement. If they called you "bad" it was a very negative thing and then suddenly the word bad evolved into meaning you were cool or hip.

We have seen example after example of proof it is not the word but the intent behind it that matters. During the height of the Feminist movement calling a girl a Cool Chick went from a compliment to a Male Chauvinist Pig statement tantamount to the "N" word today.

What worries me about what you are saying, if I'm understanding, is that you want enforcement somehow meaning government intervention. Do we truly want to go that route. Who defines the words and the targets? Is harassing a fat person any different than harassing a Black person? Is humiliating somebody who dresses badly any worse than calling a Gay person a name?

Then we have the gray area's. How do we define those. Is being offended by a person who run's around talking about their sexual preferences in public constantly being a Homophobes? Is being offended by the bizarre displays in Gay Pride Parades in public where children can see them being Homophobes? Is being offended by teaching about sexual orientation and discussing sex to children under 8 being Homophobes? Is being offended by Gay's demanding special treatment as if sexual preferences were a handicap being Homophobes? Who decides? When does it cross the line from sexual preference to sexual perversion and who decides that?

I think these things are the last thing any government body should be involved in. Legislating morality is a slippery slope. There will always be people who are irrational offended by something. Where do we draw the line?

Harassing someone is already a crime for which there is already legal and civil recourse. Do we need to make something illegal twice or just once? Do we need a law covering all harassment or a law covering each and every instance of possible harassment?

Should the Obama Political Machine be charged with a hate crime for falsely saying anyone who did not vote for him is a Racist? What is the difference exactly? Should the Koss be shut down for its lies and the hate that is spewed daily on that site? Again, what is the difference?

You see, we will never all agree what constitutes harassment. Innocent people will be accused and in fact harassed over things they never meant. There will always be Race Baiters and Angry Gay's who will never be satisfied no matter what. They are locked into the victim mentality or they use it like a weapon to get special treatment or extort special favors.

Originally posted by Bored To Tears

Originally posted by chissler


1. Would you comfortably use the "N" word in a public place surrounded by strangers?

2. Would you comfortably use homophobic slurs in a public place surrounded by strangers?

The answer to both questions is, yes I would and have.

I can't help if people are to ignorant to realize the only reason those words are hateful is because they let them be.

The question is your intent behind those words. Are you using them out of hate, bigotry or ignorance? Were you raised to hate people who are different and is that why you use those words to bully people? Is your personal self-esteem so low you use those words because you think bullying people some how makes you more acceptable to yourself?

Just here to say that derogatory white terms aren't really all that offensive. I'm yet to hear a really funny white racist joke.

BEFORE:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."


AFTER:
"We the non-animal, non-vegetable entities of not-to-be defined background, gender, or gender preference of the poltical territory known among persons of non-indigenous heritage as the "United States," in order to: form what some, from a purely subjective viewpoint, might plausibly conder "a more perfect Union;" establish a necssarily limited form of "justice" (without prejudicial viewpoints on "right" and "wrong" that could cause offence or result from the mental activities of non-forward-thinking persons); insure a mutally acceptable form of domestic Tranquility as defined by each unique and special snowflake of an individual; provide for the common defence in a manner that does not violate the rights of any special group or involve use of force, verbal output, or cognition that could possibly offend any person or group that has been historically marginalized; promote the general Welfare [we'll leave that one alone]; and secure the non-religiously understood "Blessings" as defined from a multifacited panalopy of differeing viewpoints with regard to the so-called concept of "Liberty" to ourselves and our Posterity (for those of us who choose to reproduce or otherwise harbor "posterity" as understood in a non-gender-specific manner), do ordain and establish this Constitution for the aforementioned so-called "United States of America," insofar is it causes no offence to protected, hegemonically-challenged groups or global harmony among all persons in a non-derogatory way."



[edit on 11/3/09 by silent thunder]

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by Bored To Tears

Originally posted by chissler


1. Would you comfortably use the "N" word in a public place surrounded by strangers?

2. Would you comfortably use homophobic slurs in a public place surrounded by strangers?

The answer to both questions is, yes I would and have.

I can't help if people are to ignorant to realize the only reason those words are hateful is because they let them be.

The question is your intent behind those words. Are you using them out of hate, bigotry or ignorance? Were you raised to hate people who are different and is that why you use those words to bully people? Is your personal self-esteem so low you use those words because you think bullying people some how makes you more acceptable to yourself?

The question was would I say them, not my intent was behind saying them.

As far as the questions you ask behind me saying them, I believe I already answered them, but let me re post it just so YOU aren't the one being ignorant by questioning the way I was raised, why I use them, how I use them or my self esteem.

I can't help if people are to ignorant to realize the only reason those words are hateful is because they let them be.

In other words, it is you and other fools who give these words more power then they deserve. I see them as regular words.

If you want to give them power then shun them from your house, but don't try and tell me what words are allowed to be used.

Those words will always be around, nothing you or I can do about it. The only way to solve the problem is for everyone to grow up and realize that they are words.


[edit on 3-11-2009 by Bored To Tears]