African desert rift confirmed as new ocean in the making!

Originally posted by gazerstar
Wow! This is fascinating! Thanks for the heads up.

If it doesn't fill up with ocean, Africa may have their very own Grand Canyon some day.

This is probably a stupid question, but is it possible that if water does enter into the 'canyon' that it could come up from underground like from an underground caving system, or is that even possible due to its location?

I don't know about from underground, but the Nile and lake Victoria are in that area, so I suppose it's possible that they could fill the rift.

Actually I think I remember seeing a documentary about an African lake being fed from underground, hm let me check, you may be right!

I would imagine that the sea level quest would depend entirely on where the mass of the continents that is being pushed apart is going. If it is being converted into mountain ranges then the rift would have a result in lowering the ocean levels but if it was pushing the land mass further out into the ocean it should be raising the water level until the rift begins taking on water from the sea.

Originally posted by Muundoggie
I find this VERY facinating. Have you looked at the expanding earth theory?
Why could this not be true?
www.youtube.com...

I already accept this as fact.
I threw plate tectonics out of my window a long time ago.

I can see it now - the world poised with disaster as sea levels rise, everyone thinking it's global warming. Then this rift will swallow the sea and impoverished Africa will finally be saved as well as the world.

Originally posted by Muundoggie
I find this VERY facinating. Have you looked at the expanding earth theory?
Why could this not be true?
www.youtube.com...

I'd never seen that video before, definitely food for thought!


Thanks!

reply to post by kiwifoot


Oh GOD
Since i've been reading ATS I've always read some crazy things about geology, and being a geologist is almost heartbreaking.

1. Stop with the expending earth... with enough time i'll demonstrate you why it's impossible, and proof of the earth being a whole solid body but well, it's already late here (i'm in france), so maybe next time.

2. about the rifting :
first, you have to have a source of heat juste beneath the crust. This source of heat is generally a magma plume, comming up because of archimed's law and will induce a diminution in the crust thickness. Just like if you were melting a layer of plastic from beneath.

then Volcanism appears, is our case, this is the nexte step commine ahead.

After volcanism, extenstion makes it's move, this is when the rifting really occur.
Then, you began to have a separation, this is the full rifting process, each border of the rift are separating, creating normal faults and the crust keep getting thinner.

As the borders or lips, of the rift are separating, a sedimentary basin is being created, and sediments beguns to accumulate.
this accumulation will add a weigh on rocks, creating Subsidence (search it!), basically, the basin will sink because of the weight and because of the heat (this is how you create petroleum, by getting rich organic matter rocks deeper, and you know that deeper you are, hotter it is, so organic matter can be cracked into hydrocarbures).


Then, as the bottom of the rift is getting deeper, it will pass under the Mean Sea Level, so, water will flood it creating a sea.

Next step, if the extension goes on, you will have an ocean. End of the story.

the way the crust is getting thinner will be the main setting to know if the rift will pursue is opening or not.
We calcul a shortening factor (beta) with the lenght of the crust, if this factor is less than a certain number, rifting will not continue.


3. So yeah, having a rifting will modify the sea level, we call it "tectono-eustatisme" here in France, don't know how to say it in english, sorry guys.

Being simple, as you modify the basin configuration, you will have an effect on the mean sea level.
By the way you can also modify the volume of the ocean...
How ? simply by activating the oceanics rifts, you will then create more oceanic crust thus you change the volume of ocean, more volume for the same amout of water = decreasing sea levels.

For the one wondering why rifting is usually observed in deep sea, juste remeber that rifting always begins into the continent, then lead to the formation of a sea, and then at last to the formation of an ocean.
Search for Wilson Cycle, you will understand how it works globaly.

Finally, for those still giving the old propaganda of the hollow earth and the earth in expansion, please, read some more about plate tectonics, subduction, collision and wilson cycle. I just can stand those people, they are creationist for me. No offence, it's juste that all the creastionist I've encountered were narrow minded about scientific fact.

I hope my explaination was clear, sorry I do what I can in english and I'm in a kind of hurry to go sleeping at last.

Don't hestitate if you have questions, I may not be the best geologist, but I can surely help understand.

bye ATS I love reading you before sleeping !

Originally posted by Solenki
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

Oh GOD
Since i've been reading ATS I've always read some crazy things about geology, and being a geologist is almost heartbreaking.

1. Stop with the expending earth... with enough time i'll demonstrate you why it's impossible, and proof of the earth being a whole solid body but well, it's already late here (i'm in france), so maybe next time.

2. about the rifting :
first, you have to have a source of heat juste beneath the crust. This source of heat is generally a magma plume, comming up because of archimed's law and will induce a diminution in the crust thickness. Just like if you were melting a layer of plastic from beneath.

then Volcanism appears, is our case, this is the nexte step commine ahead.

After volcanism, extenstion makes it's move, this is when the rifting really occur.
Then, you began to have a separation, this is the full rifting process, each border of the rift are separating, creating normal faults and the crust keep getting thinner.

As the borders or lips, of the rift are separating, a sedimentary basin is being created, and sediments beguns to accumulate.
this accumulation will add a weigh on rocks, creating Subsidence (search it!), basically, the basin will sink because of the weight and because of the heat (this is how you create petroleum, by getting rich organic matter rocks deeper, and you know that deeper you are, hotter it is, so organic matter can be cracked into hydrocarbures).


Then, as the bottom of the rift is getting deeper, it will pass under the Mean Sea Level, so, water will flood it creating a sea.

Next step, if the extension goes on, you will have an ocean. End of the story.

the way the crust is getting thinner will be the main setting to know if the rift will pursue is opening or not.
We calcul a shortening factor (beta) with the lenght of the crust, if this factor is less than a certain number, rifting will not continue.


3. So yeah, having a rifting will modify the sea level, we call it "tectono-eustatisme" here in France, don't know how to say it in english, sorry guys.

Being simple, as you modify the basin configuration, you will have an effect on the mean sea level.
By the way you can also modify the volume of the ocean...
How ? simply by activating the oceanics rifts, you will then create more oceanic crust thus you change the volume of ocean, more volume for the same amout of water = decreasing sea levels.

For the one wondering why rifting is usually observed in deep sea, juste remeber that rifting always begins into the continent, then lead to the formation of a sea, and then at last to the formation of an ocean.
Search for Wilson Cycle, you will understand how it works globaly.

Finally, for those still giving the old propaganda of the hollow earth and the earth in expansion, please, read some more about plate tectonics, subduction, collision and wilson cycle. I just can stand those people, they are creationist for me. No offence, it's juste that all the creastionist I've encountered were narrow minded about scientific fact.

I hope my explaination was clear, sorry I do what I can in english and I'm in a kind of hurry to go sleeping at last.

Don't hestitate if you have questions, I may not be the best geologist, but I can surely help understand.

bye ATS I love reading you before sleeping !

THANKYOU!

That was what we needed, someone with a knowledge of this!

Oh, edit to ask, have you got an approximate time-scale for this?

Is it worth buying beach side property now?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by kiwifoot]

Good thread:

If I may add some things to help clarify the original post.

The Ethiopian Desert Rift which appeared in 2005 is merely another in a series of rifts that have occured along the East African continent that together are known as the East African Rift (Great Rift Valley). The rift(s) are caused by the divergent Nubian and Somalian sub-plates. Some of the deepest lakes in the world are located along the rift zone (Lake Tanganyika - 1,470 metres deep)

"The East African Rift, which traverses it beginning with the southern end of the Red Sea, going through Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania and Mozambique."

- news.softpedia.com...

This geological event has been in progress for millions of years and will likely take another million or so before the Red Sea eventually floods the rift valley(s) becoming a new sea.

earth.imagico.de...

reply to post by Solenki


Thanks for the input. Glad to hear we've got someone EDUCATED on board!

To stop me from my outlandish and ignorant idea's. Seriously tho, thanks for clarifying this subject. I'm very interested in seeing if this sea will ever form.

However, I really do believe the Earth is expanding/growing just like everything else. No proof, no evidence, just a belief.

Omni

[edit on 2-11-2009 by InfiniteOmnipresence]

reply to post by kiwifoot


I know how you feel. I often find myself deciding against starting a scientific thread for those reasons. I'm big into following the latest science news. I can't wait each week for my New Scientist to drop through the letter box, it's exactly how I used to feel waiting for The Beano (a comic) as a kid.

This new ocean stuff is fascinating, I saw a docu on the BBC less than 2 months back that was discussing this exact situation. Of course as has already been said this isn't likely to happen for millions of years without human help. This could bring forth all sorts of fossil, mineral, and archaeological finds. It might even reveal floating tectonic plates of the sort theorised by those that believe that US Navy Subs can travel under the continental US.

In regard to changes in ocean levels there are scenarios where either outcome is possible, what with aquifers, water displacement, salinity, and temperature. However I would hazard a guess that it's much more likely to have little or no effect because you are just moving land masses around and not creating entirely new water storage capacity.

I mentioned earlier about this taking millions of years without human help. This brings up another subject that fascinates me:

Geoengineering.

One of the first conspiracies I really took notice of was about the 'Earthquake Machine' that was supposedly tested in the Aussie outback by that Japanese cult that gassed the subways. We have the technology for some pretty significant geoengineering now, the question is due you believe governments and corporations are capable of using these technologies for nefarious purposes.

Originally posted by Anamnesis
Good thread:

If I may add some things to help clarify the original post.

The Ethiopian Desert Rift which appeared in 2005 is merely another in a series of rifts that have occured along the East African continent that together are known as the East African Rift (Great Rift Valley). The rift(s) are caused by the divergent Nubian and Somalian sub-plates. Some of the deepest lakes in the world are located along the rift zone (Lake Tanganyika - 1,470 metres deep)

"The East African Rift, which traverses it beginning with the southern end of the Red Sea, going through Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania and Mozambique."

- news.softpedia.com...

This geological event has been in progress for millions of years and will likely take another million or so before the Red Sea eventually floods the rift valley(s) becoming a new sea.

earth.imagico.de...

Thanks for your post, clears it up, I learned more reading the ;last two posts than I did reading the source for the OP!

All the best!

reply to post by sharps


hey mate have can you recall the Documentary's name?

That 'earthquake machine' sounds crazy.. but I've heard of stranger things on ATS that have a grounding in reality!

I didnt know Africa was so geologically active. Thats a great bit of info thanks for that. I wonder if we could purchase some cheap beach side property BEFORE the water fills in lol.

reply to post by kiwifoot



Makes me t hink of the expanding earth theory...maybe it's getting ready to expand again.

Wow. This planet never ceases to amaze me. I thank God I'm alive to see it all work. When dealing with such huge timescales it is difficult to predict when such an event could occur. The rift, according to the article, has a potential to sever suddenly. We may be able to witness this event within our lifetimes, or our your kids' life time, and while I don't suffer lightly the loss of life that would result, I would consider myself blessed to be a witness to the Earth remaking herself.



[edit on 2-11-2009 by projectvxn]

I've seen the video related to the Expanding Earth theories and there are some interesting points made. However, there are some things about it which leaves me scratching my head. One is the claim that there are no subduction zones to be found on the planet. Yet there are plenty of examples of subduction zones to be found all over the globe.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm fairly open minded about these new theories. Expanding Earth would be possible if Torison field and Spherical waveform physics theories are factored in as well. But, one has to remember that a theory is based in speculation (hypothesis) and you should be able to make predictions based on any theory. One prediction you could make about an expanding planet theory is that planetary expansion should be observable on other planets in the Solar System but no such observation has been made.

Though I haven't ruled out any possibilties just yet...

Cool thread.
I have been interested in Tectonics for some time.
Rainbow Basin near Barstow California is a tonic heads Mecca.
It is a reverse Plate Tectonics wonderland. Out on this rift, that is part of the Saint Andreas Fault you see the ocean bottom sliding up and over the continental plate. The scenery is breathtaking. I think it may be the only place on earth for this. (not sure). Just east of there are the dry lake beds. I think the lakes got sucked down into the fault.
On the eastern part of America just west of the Blue Ridge Mountains, was at one time a 400 million years old sea. An inland sea they call it. Trilobites, nautiloids, corals and I even have a fossil from the shore line. The first land plant.
(The Cotillion Sea I think) A Devonian sea mostly. It could be a twin of the future sea in the OP IMO.
The inland Cotillion Sea has marine fossils reaching from the St. Laurence River, continuously to Birmingham Alabama. I believe all the way to the Gulf of Mexico. (I think they are just deeper there.)
With the perpetual sea rise since the reversal of the last Ice Age we may see the water fill the Great Rift sooner than later.
What is up will come down. What is down will come up.

This video series goes into the ocean forming in Africa, that it may be much sooner than depicted, and that is related to the geomagnetic pole reversal.


The Horizon Project documentary part 1 of 8 (Brent Miller)

reply to post by kiwifoot


This is a little off topic. I am relating this story to my question simply because of recent extreme Earth changes and items like this subject here that you have presented. Subjects that are not discussed much.

Has anyone done a study on plate movement and earthquakes in relation to ground saturation. If rain constantly weighs down over time on a particular plate and in the same area, does that water saturation have an effect on the movement or slide of the plate.

In the same sense, couldn't the Earth also shift water or create a land rift in an arid area that needs balance and more saturation?

A bigger picture is forming that the World that we live on "is" actually alive and its own entity.

Any real answers would be awesome. This is something I have been curious about for some time now.

It's probably going to take a LONG time to make it out to sea, and definitely a long time before it's big enough to lower sea level any significant amount.

It would be nice if the Earth compensated for sea level rise by opening up huge trenches in unpopulated/ungreen areas, but the reality of it is that the ice-caps are melting much faster than the earth could possibly react through natural formation.

Once the fresh water makes it into the mid Atlantic, this place is going to change a whole lot, and fast.

On the other hand, if the Earth's crust shifts as scientists are now confirming is totally possible, then all of the water wrapped around the entire Earth will swash-about like a sink full of water on a crashing aeroplane, anyway (not to be pessimistic of course lol).

I'm hoping for smooth sailing spiritual enlightenment but really, whoever knows the truth at this stage doesn't want everyone else to know; so that's us buggered.