Two weeks to go before lines for pay-as-you-go mobile phones will be automatically deactivated , page 1

reply to post by stumch

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Quit being so paranoid. They are just trying to legally obtain your info so that they can archive it for safety reasons. Call me a conservative or republican or whatever, but if the Government really wanted information on your pay-as-you-go cell phone for spying and security reasons that would make any ATSer freak out, they would obtain it without you knowing it. With the technology we have, they can do what they want. Just be grateful that they are asking this time. And take it easy. Why are people so paranoid with the Government having their phone number? I know you can't do it with cell phone numbers, but on the internet you can reverse-look up essentially anyones phone number these days and find anything out about them. It doesn't scare me, it's just what happens when technology and archival abilities expand.

reply to post by For(Home)Country

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Easy tiger. Perhaps my tongue-in-cheek tone didn't come over too well. I was simply alerting the fact, but to say stop being paranoid is a step too far - there are a whole series of intrusions too numerous to list here that are above and beyond reasons of security. The question is when do you say enough?

TPTB do it so subtly, over such a long time that you dont notice your rights being stripped away, then one day you realise it's too late. You only need to look out your window to see this.

I remember thinking when PAYG came out that TPTB wouldn't allow the anonymity afforded by such phones, and I think people should be allowed anonymity if the want it. But to lump everything under the banner of fighting terrorism is just nuts, and the liberties being stripped away go too far.

reply to post by stumch

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Maybe this is a topic too complex; requiring a thread of its own, but I would like to ask why do we think we are entitled to privacy? What in-born trait, gene, or ideology (or other compulsion) do we posses that thinks we, as individuals, are entitled to privacy? Don't you think privay grants individuals a place and time to conspire to violate other peoples rights in other areas?
For example, (as it is the common one used as propaganda and hot debate), 'terrorists' granted the right to 'privacy' can conspire without being interrupted to generate and execute harmful acts that violate others rights such as the right to live, the right to peace, or even the right to not be prank phone called?

[edit on 013030p://111 by For(Home)Country]

Originally posted by For(Home)Country
reply to post by stumch

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Maybe this is a topic too complex; requiring a thread of its own, but I would like to ask why do we think we are entitled to privacy? What in-born trait, gene, or ideology (or other compulsion) do we posses that thinks we, as individuals, are entitled to privacy? Don't you think privay grants individuals a place and time to conspire to violate other peoples rights in other areas?
For example, (as it is the common one used as propaganda and hot debate), 'terrorists' granted the right to 'privacy' can conspire without being interrupted to generate and execute harmful acts that violate others rights such as the right to live, the right to peace, or even the right to not be prank phone called?

[edit on 013030p://111 by For(Home)Country]

As a Canadian and what appears to be a person with a socialist ideology, you apparently havent read the U.S. Constitution or our Bill of Rights! Lets start with this one.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

reply to post by For(Home)Country

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Privacy is a natural right, a basic human inalienable law. Not everyone has something to hide for unlawful or illicit activities, such as terrorism. It is the right of the individual to choose how to live his or her life without fear of reprisal from government or elsewhere.

By your logic you would affect the population for the activities of a tiny minority. It is the duty of the police and other forces to protect the population, you are subscribing to the ethos that they use - "If you have nothing to hide, what are you afraid of" - well ok then, why don't you come in so you can rifle through my things, even though I have done nothing wrong.

I think we can all see that world would not be a joyful one, where everyone's activities open to scrutiny by all and sundry. Just because you live a life within the law, do you really want your dirty laundry on show?

There is a law now in the UK that inspectors can enter your home to check for "heat efficiency" and other things, under the environmental flag, and fine you for the trouble. There are many other examples of this. They are now trying to fit a black box to every car in Europe that would record and transmit your every journey, along with the time, date and speed. Seriously now, would you really want that? And don't even get me started on the databases..

Even going back five years the rights we have lost are too many to mention. Look at the snooping rights councils have, again under laws that were brought in to fight terrorism. They bring in laws for one reason then abuse them for their own purposes.

Bottom line - no privacy = fascist state.

reply to post by liveandletlive

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first of all, this story is about spain, WTF has american law got to do with it?

secound of all, there is an important element you seem to have missed in amendment 5, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures".

what exactly constitutes an unreasonable search and seizure entirely depends on what TPTB can get away with. i think you'll find that these days, the meer suspicion that you might be worth searching or have something worth seizing is enough to make the search and seizure reasonable.

a constitution is only as powerful as the will of the people to enforce it, which makes the american constitution toilet paper, apparently.

Originally posted by pieman
reply to post by liveandletlive

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first of all, this story is about spain, WTF has american law got to do with it?

secound of all, there is an important element you seem to have missed in amendment 5, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures".

what exactly constitutes an unreasonable search and seizure entirely depends on what TPTB can get away with. i think you'll find that these days, the meer suspicion that you might be worth searching or have something worth seizing is enough to make the search and seizure reasonable.

a constitution is only as powerful as the will of the people to enforce it, which makes the american constitution toilet paper, apparently.

I could care less about Spain or the fact you dont have decent toilet paper. I am on my soap box! So you and your communist friends that support the idea that “governments” have any right to protect the people by stepping on “unalienable rights” of the individual can suck the end of my rifle!!!!!!!!

edit to add:

[edit on 2-11-2009 by liveandletlive]

reply to post by For(Home)Country

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Consider that all cellphones have GPS trackers, which are active even when the phone is off. So, if the phone is registered, your location/habits can be tracked.

Regarding the OP, don't tell me that just because cell phones are registered to the owner, that someone willing to blow up a train wouldn't be willing to steal someone elses cell phone.

Though the logic used to craft/pass this law can't be defended, we know from experience that politicians never waste a good crisis!

reply to post by pieman

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No, your right, all governments and political parties are pretty much the same. They do have different self serving ideas though!

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