No "greys" for astronaut Gordon Cooper!, page 4
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reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 09:12 PM by NIGHTRID3R
reply to post by SaturnFX


Love your arguments brother' specially love when you ask what my agenda is?

Let me tell you one thing brother I believe more then you do. I probably have these dreams more then you do. But contrary to many I'm a sceptical believer. I want to believe I am not alone ... this says it pretty much ... I could go on and explain all my background ... all my experiences but I wont bore you with that today either will I bore you with training on the streets I had or on service I had and where I had ...

All I can tell you because this would turn out in my life story that I believe and believe it hard as steal they exist. I got close accounts of personal friends that are scare to even talk about it. I want it to be true. I want it to be undeniable not any tall out of any ones mouth who ever he is president, astronaut, my mother (hope I'm not insulting anyone I'm just being myself).

My agenda is the truth. Tell me you have evidence worthy and I will take a plane asap to see it myself just for me, just so I know i'm not going mad the rest really would be beatifull and benifiial but for me (I'm selfish some times) I want to know i'm not going crazy brother. From this results my sceptism.

See me as your enemy and you loose a brother that would hold to the end for his belief ....

Fear No One, Trust No One ...

[edit on 2-11-2009 by NIGHTRID3R]


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 09:21 PM by DrainMaster
Originally posted by NIGHTRID3R
Great Post S&F


Trust No One, Fear No One ...


[edit on 2-11-2009 by NIGHTRID3R]


You are correct, astronauts should not be regarded as gods or prophets. We should not tie science with religion in any form or application, including calling people heroes. There are no heroes in our society. Courageous people, people who save other people by their acts of medical surgery or daring feats of rescue as a member of the Coastal Guard or whatever, but no heroes. Hero is a mytholical term invented by the Greeks.

There are no heroes.

However, Gordon Cooper is not just someone who went into outerspace. You have to take into consideration that not just anyone can be an astronaut. You have to be strictly disciplined and you have to had prior experience with flight, which also requires strict discipline.

To discredit an astronaut or a military pilot just because he saw something in outer space (whether it be an alien or whatever) is more discouraging to say than to say the same came from a scientist or a psychologist. People who fly our aircraft are more disciplined in distinguishing reality from fantasy as such they are required to be given such responsibility to fly an airplane that is worth millions of U.S. tax dollars of expensive technology that is difficult to replace, especially if they are entrusted with flying experimental aircraft that can be argued to be irreplaceable such as much of the rocket type of craft we used to get ourselves into outerspace.

This the highest level of discipline you can get from a bureaucracy. There is no one who is more disciplined, who can distinguish reality from fantasy better than an astronaut. No one. If you don't believe me, then name me a profession.

Even as a nuclear scientist working in a top secret laboratory during the Manhattan Project you have room to be less professionalized than an astronaut, because you are not a member of the military. Because in order to be a scientist, you have to have room to experiment and proceedure without interference of a bureaucratic ritual. You are not entrusted with your technology. Your supervisor who is a military officer (most certain) is entrusted with the technology you would be operating with and even he is less disciplined than those who get the fortunate opportunity to drive a rocket into outerspace.


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 09:26 PM by NIGHTRID3R
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Easy on me e borther, I'm from the streets which makes me street wise and I can I say this is to some regards the voice of the people ... (the streets, the ghetto what ever you want to call this misrable place we live in here, where im at, this doesnt make me any different just closer to what they call lower class citizens)

Now with training brother lol I have military training I have to say better then you because you replied with:
'' I mean, how we do we determine the credibility of another human being? Does being an astronaut lend that credibility(years of military experience, aviation education, piloting and extensive research into observation and analysis?) How about being a police officer, doctor, physicist, or a railway conductor? Define for me the parameters that gives one credibility? ''

What made you believe I was none of them. I want to tell you I was military. I learned by the best not to trust instructions to survive and achieve objective at all costs. What did you learned brother? Some will understand this phrase. Now I must admit I'm no doctor,I do, have a background in law because I studied some of it to be bored and turn to technology wich is less paid but it for some reason attracted me.

I don't need any one to follow me. Actually I dont want any at all followers.( I learn the more you are the slower you get some will understand this as well)

Now you don't know me but yet you decided to judge my beliefs when i STATE THE TRUTH must always be proved with out any reasonable doubt. I have no agenda beside my own personal one wich is to find the the truth ... I know is out there right before us.

On an other note : never under estimate a player you do not know .... This will also be familiar to some ... depending on your training ...

But reality is that you need both that street wise that will make you go hmmm this is weird doesnt sound good.... and the logical one that wants the proof its true or not. I again state the proof must be undeniable. Read my post again.

No matter who you are ... God you can be if you can't prove it you are as the other ...

Sorry for my phrasing my native language is not english ...
No grudge Bother ...

Fear No One, Trust No One ...

[edit on 2-11-2009 by NIGHTRID3R]



reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 09:44 PM by NIGHTRID3R
reply to post by DrainMaster


Bother I don'texclude pilots or military as I have military training myself and I was thought not to bring borther to death with out being 200% sure what I have as intel is true and my borther will want to see proof that they will not die in vain for a mens atttempt to heroism. This is one thing I was thought I know different countries even different platoons teach different things but this marked me and so did the truth. I want to believe buit not at any price. Like in the bible show me his marks when I can put my fingers in the holes will I believe it is him ...

I trust No One, I Fear No One ...

(With all the disinfo what else do you want us to do for centuries it as been this way you are told what you need to know to continu the prosperity of others)

As I said I will be your best ally if I can see proof I hope I express my self properly and that you understand I am no enemy but a solder of fortune wich this cause attracts very deeply)


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 09:59 PM by Skeptical Ed
reply to post by NIGHTRID3R


Change the name from Gordon Cooper to Edgar Mitchell and your words fit perfectly!


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 10:11 PM by Skeptical Ed
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


You said: "Define for me the parameters that gives one credibility?"

When one doesn't deviate from the truth. When one doesn't make claims without irrefutable evidence. When one doesn't say "I believe" and that is all that is offered; I'd rather hear "I don't know."


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 10:19 PM by Skeptical Ed
reply to post by JimOberg



www.ufoevidence.org...
Letter by astronaut Gordon Cooper regarding UFOs to the ambassador of Grenada to the United Nations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 9, 1978

Ambassador Griffith
Mission of Grenada to the United Nations
866 Second Avenue
Suite 502
New York, New York 10017

Dear Ambassador Griffith:

I wanted to convey to you my views on our extra-terrestrial visitors popularly referred to as "UFO's", and suggest what might be done to properly deal with them.

I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion. We my first have to show them that we have learned to resolve our problems by peaceful means, rather than warfare, before we are accepted as fully qualified universal team members. This acceptance would have tremendous possibilities of advancing our world in all areas. Certainly then it would seem that the UN has a vested interest in handling this subject properly and expeditiously.

I should point out that I am not an experienced UFO professional researcher. I have not yet had the privilege of flying a UFO, nor of meeting the crew of one. I do feel that I am somewhat qualified to discuss them since I have been into the fringes of the vast areas in which they travel. Also, I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes, flying in fighter formation, generally from east to west over Europe. They were at a higher altitude than we could reach with our jet fighters of that time.

I would also like to point out that most astronauts are very reluctant to even discuss UFO's due to the great numbers of people who have indiscriminately sold fake stories and forged documents abusing their names and reputations without hesitation. Those few astronauts who have continued to have a participation in the UFO field have had to do so very cautiously. There are several of us who do believe in UFO's and who have had occasion to see a UFO on the ground, or from an airplane. There was only one occasion from space which may have been a UFO.

If the UN agrees to pursue this project, and to lend their credibility to it, perhaps many more well qualified people will agree to step forth and provide help and information.

I am looking forward to seeing you soon.

Sincerely,

L. Gordon Cooper
Col. USAF (ket)
Astronaut


[edit on 2-11-2009 by Skeptical Ed]



reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 10:43 PM by JimOberg
Originally posted by DrainMaster
This the highest level of discipline you can get from a bureaucracy. There is no one who is more disciplined, who can distinguish reality from fantasy better than an astronaut. No one. If you don't believe me, then name me a profession.


A characterisitc if a superior observer is that they note their raw perceptions accurately and do NOT interpret them as to the cause or stimulus, because reaching such conclusions will unavoidably edit the raw perceptions to fit the conclusion -- elevating some perceptions and lowering others, subconsciously. Hynek noted this in his research, concluding that pilots were among the poorest observers of celestial objects, with a higher misperception rate than practically any other group. The National Transportation Safety Board's experts agree -- the best witnesses to an aviation incident are those not familiar with the technology, who can report perceptions in pure form; among the worst are pilots, whose minds try to reach an explanation, than edit their raw perceptions to support that model.

You want pilots who react to visual stimuli in the most dangerous possible interpretation -- to go for the 'worst case' as often as possible -- in order to quickly react with remedial actions. This will create a large number of 'false positives' to perceived hazards, but false positives are relatively cost-free, while a single false-negative can kill you.

This makes them NOT good as dispassionate scientific observers, but it makes them -- and their passengers -- much more likely to survive.


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 10:44 PM by NIGHTRID3R
reply to post by Skeptical Ed


Ed Borther,
Edger or cooper, they have no proof but only a lead we've all been following for a while. If you tell me you saw it. You're in a million dollar rocket and you have no high def cam for your time that can frame your saying then I'm not sure.

What if I Tell you my best friend had a 4th kind encounter while he was in bed and his own mom thinks he's tottaly crazy or was on drugs. I have questioned him for the last 17 years randomly and he avoids the subject because he feals fear because he his scared of public opininion even if he sees me type here for some reason. he is unconfrtable with his experienced like if he was vilolated in some way. now the strange part for me. This guy is a real gang banger type and as no fear for anything you bring on trust me on this one. (this is one the types of training the streests brings you) But why keep lying to your best friend and mom? Why for more then 17 years? I havent debunked him yet and god knows I tried. His mom tried and a the few times he dared to speak about it, his face was priceless and the subject brings up FEAR in his eyes face, movemet, gesture. FEAR from a man that normally is not scared of death. This is one of the personal cases that bothers me alot.

(I saw one time a green falling green type flame asteroid/UFO in the middle of a big city anly me and a friend a ask to look up and he saw it for 3 seconds seem to have seen it. This is just an example, it brightens the sky in green but no one in a city of 2 million saw it??? I checked the news called ...what ever no one had any clue. I was on no drugs or anything but still this sounds like a fairy tale with out evidence. This is what I mean proof without any deniable doubt it happned it exists,people will believe with evidence. This is what I want to see brother ) Specially when I showed him a grey figure that resembled his description it freaked him out for a while.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by NIGHTRID3R]


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 10:48 PM by Skeptical Ed
reply to post by JimOberg


You said: "As for skill at dispassionate witnessing, it may surprise folks to learn that even J. Allen Hynek (as well as the NTSB that investigates air accidents) consider pilots to be poor witnesses to sudden unusual aerial events -- mainly because they want to 'explain' what happened in familiar terms and subconsciously edit memories to fit their explanations."

Which is why I roll my eyes when the believers try to present certain "authorities" as infallible. The list of authorities usually includes the following and others: police officers, pilots, astronauts, airport controllers, astronomers. Where to me, position is immaterial.

When it's a sudden event, especially the sighting of a UFO, training may go out the window for no amount of training prepares your senses for such an extraordinary event. Some will remain cooler than others but it's still something that may make your heart beat faster and you'll have to think outside the envelope thereby possibly coloring your thoughts.


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 11:04 PM by Skeptical Ed
Originally posted by triplesod
reply to post by Skeptical Ed


I dunno if I'm missing something but there is no suggestion in that quote that the aliens are not "grey's" or looking like them.

He said they are humanoid, with two arms and leg and readily identifiyable features. That could really be anything from a bear to a human to a Sasquatch to a frog to a grey or to anything else you can imagine as long as you give them sensory organs in a similar position to our own, which the grey's do have.


Humanoid. Illustrations of "greys" do not give the stick figures any sort of resemblance to humans. You should refrain from using do as a definite for what is just a fantasy.


[edit on 2-11-2009 by Skeptical Ed]


reply posted on 3-11-2009 @ 12:28 AM by GideonHM
reply to post by one4all


Yeah, evolution is all about logistics. I use that term in the perspective in that nature follows the path of least resistance, as does evolution.

The path of least resistance in terms of sentience, would first follow either sentient 'creator', or genetic assistance. Then, after those two are set aside, the least resistant path are simply the mutations that allow sentience to develop naturally.

A species that is in the process of losing certain hallmarks of advanced development in exchange for a new adaptability (ex: smaller brains to facilitate a more functional method of flight) would typically not be able to develop sentience as evolution has taken another path.

There is a chance that we as a collective whole are completely in the dark as to our past. Others are saying this is a prison planet to dump our ancestors here. I doubt that.

Rather, it has steadily become more and more prison like as those in power hoard their worthless gold and resources (worthless in the hands of a few) and leave everyone else to rot. If you build a rocket ship and find the truth for yourself, no one is going to stop you if you don't ask first.

Personally I think the term humanoid is very Earth centric and just illustrates how limited our perspectives are. Regardless of the fact that humanoid is succinct, it still compares others to us, when we don't know crap.

Really.


reply posted on 3-11-2009 @ 02:57 AM by Ray Amuro
Originally posted by JimOberg
Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by NIGHTRID3R



As for skill at dispassionate witnessing, it may surprise folks to learn that even J. Allen Hynek (as well as the NTSB that investigates air accidents) consider pilots to be poor witnesses to sudden unusual aerial events -- mainly because they want to 'explain' what happened in familiar terms and subconsciously edit memories to fit their explanations.



OK Jim you convinced me I Stop the plane for my trip. I ll take the boat .


reply posted on 3-11-2009 @ 06:17 AM by spacebot
The name of Gordon Cooper is cited in this thread not because he is an astronaut but because he has claims about aliens and then a logical connection is attempted in regard to his former expertise as astronaut, that somehow this would made him an expert about aliens.
If we believe the wild and unsubstantiated claims that military has/had alien sentient beings in captivity and somehow himself being a military man might have been "in the know" sometime then we would accept his claims as true.
It has nothing to do with the part of someone being an astronaut really.

People are so eager to believe.

Dress up those two guys in each video with weird space suits. Have them land somewhere publicly with some exotic craft and let them to what they usually do. Their tricks.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

There, is your disclosure.

It has to do as much with aliens as any Gordon Cooper, or me or anybody else does, but chances are people will be actually believing those two guys of being of alien origin. You people know why? because not just because we know nothing real about aliens, but we don't even try to learn.
Believing anyones wild claims regardless of their former expertise is not the way to learn things.

I could just find two people like that send them to space, then let them come back and tell us their contact with aliens "changed" them and are here now to relay an important message for humanity. Chances are most people in the west would believe that. Chances are most people in the East wouldn't.
So, what good is a disclosure the way many "believers" primarily in the West are expecting it to happen?
Chi projection? ESP? So what? People have been documented being able to do these things through the ages. It is just that in the West we have been "disconnected" from that kind of understanding about ourselves and reality.
The thing is that THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ORIGINAL in every single case of every different individual that claimed he/she had been in contact with aliens. Everything can very well be products of someone's wild imagination about things he has seen or heard from somewhere else. There is nothing original there.
There is no need for anyone to prepare anyone for any kind of disclosures. If something really original manifests itself, believe me, everyone will know in an instant! It is what we humans usually do best. We can distinguish another persons traits in an instant, what and who belongs to our own team, community, close social circle, company etc etc. being of same or different cultural heritage, eventually being of our own particular race and species. Well, some conspiracy theories say that we actually can't, but without proof whatsoever.
We all do this everyday SUBCONSCIOUSLY yet we are not aware of it in our conscious everyday reality and science has just started to discover this.

I am afraid that a "preparation" for a disclosure is nothing more than an effective brainwash to accept things otherwise we logically wouldn't.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by spacebot]
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