No "greys" for astronaut Gordon Cooper!, page 2

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reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 11:14 AM by JimOberg

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by NIGHTRID3R

Well, it is entirely possible that the post that you just put up for other ATS'ers to see is an entire fabrication of your opinion. How do we know you aren't lying about the opinion that you've posted? I mean, how we do we determine the credibility of another human being? Does being an astronaut lend that credibility(years of military experience, aviation education, piloting and extensive research into observation and analysis?) How about being a police officer, doctor, physicist, or a railway conductor? Define for me the parameters that gives one credibility?

Since I know that you will not be able to come up with an applicable definition, I will have to believe a guy who has been into space, highly educated, and decorated before I believe some random guy who critiques him just to have a voice.

Credibility is a matter both of skill at dispassionate witnessing, and of track record. Comparing Cooper's stories to that of more primary witnesses creates a dilemma between two theories: Cooper's version was garbled, or every one of all the other witnesses -- engineers, scientists, other pilots -- were all in agreement and wrong. Since Cooper's stories can be shown to be garbled even when full NASA records and tapes are available, my choice is towards the former theory.

As for skill at dispassionate witnessing, it may surprise folks to learn that even J. Allen Hynek (as well as the NTSB that investigates air accidents) consider pilots to be poor witnesses to sudden unusual aerial events -- mainly because they want to 'explain' what happened in familiar terms and subconsciously edit memories to fit their explanations.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 11:18 AM by paradigm619

Edit to remove: Posted in wrong thread.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by paradigm619]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 11:25 AM by whateverponcho

reply to post by SaturnFX

i wouldnt believe disclosure, and i know we're not alone in the universe

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 11:44 AM by JimOberg

There are some link problems on my home page, being fixed.

Meanwhile,

My extensive 1984 study - The Hunt For Gordon Cooper's UFOs is here:
www.zipworld.com.au...

Cooper claims to have taken spy photos from space on which you can read license plates – with a hand-held camera out the window. Read the whole incredible story here:
www.space.com...

This passage from his book describes how Cooper saved the shuttle program from disaster due to a design flaw, by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens. I asked around the shuttle engineering directorate, and nobody remembered any such flaw or any such design modifications. Cooper’s book does not provide the alleged drawing. And if the aliens were sending design flaw warnings, why didn’t they mention the O-rings?
www.jamesoberg.com...

See other specific examples where cooper’s stories were in conflict with everyone else’s memories and with all records:
Cooper’s Gemini Stories Versus NASA History Archives
Cooper’s Imaginary Gemini-5 Meteor Attack
Cooper Garbles McDivitt’s UFO Story

The lamentable tale of how people who automatically trusted Cooper’s judgment and word, and as a result lost millions of dollars invested in projects he fronted for, is here:
www.zipworld.com.au...

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 11:52 AM by GideonHM

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

If you try thinking of this in terms of various species, whatever the type of species that gave rise to a bi-pedal form and eventual sentience, will be reflected by its origins.

A mammal species will create similar beings to us. A reptilian species will give rise to more reptilian traits, or a dinosaurian species will give rise to more draconian traits. The list goes on and on. However, I bet that each species has a specific genetic branch off that is basically the best mix of 'higher' traits that eventually evolve thinking, bi-pedal, technologically capable species.

Not every cat can produce a feline species. Yet, in terms of odds it is likely at least one species somewhere produced the right genetic mix that began to evolve along a different path, leading to sentience.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 11:59 AM by jeffsmathers

reply to post by JimOberg

Jim, as far as the O-Rings in the solid booster, there was no flaw in the design, there were decisions made to operate the booster outside the 'known' design limits. Please refrain from saying they were flawed...

Thanks, jeffsmathers

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:08 PM by JimOberg

Originally posted by jeffsmathers
reply to post by JimOberg

Jim, as far as the O-Rings in the solid booster, there was no flaw in the design, there were decisions made to operate the booster outside the 'known' design limits. Please refrain from saying they were flawed...

Thanks, jeffsmathers

Jeff, this is a topic for deeper discussion elsewhere. You're right that the seals probably would have held at higher temperatures, but the design really was not performing adequately ('blow-by') even in those ranges.

But at least I'm not relying on telepathic messages from space. When it comes to shuttle operations, I was there, on console and in crew training and in procedures development -- and have the coffee mugs to prove it.
;-)

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:16 PM by Sabreblade

Wanna hear something really weird?
I liked this so much that I decided to add it to Mixx, and when I got done, the little "captcha" came up to allow me to post it and the words were ...
"CIA despots"

If I were the paranoid type.....

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:29 PM by Zeta Reticuli

I dont understand why ppl like to bash cooper and fellow astronauts like him. i can totally understand why ppl would bash NASA and laugh at any claims or explanations that come from them.

There is no reason to believe that cooper is lying about his "crazy" claims. If anyone is credible to provide the truth, or any sort of truth, it would be anyone in the world who hasnt been caught lying about it.

Once a liar always a liar. its crazy to think that some of you will say "no, cooper has to be wrong bc NASA is saying this n that."
why do you still fall for nasas claims? they have been caught red handed more the enuff times to disprove EVERYTHING they say. and IMO i think once is enuff to lose complete trust.

Also, if your reasoning for not believing is due to the stories sounding "crazy" or "far-fetched", then you are not approaching it with an open mind. there are so many things out there we cant even imagine, so why not accept change when theres in your face? or accept change when your hearing it for urself? as long as ppl still have a tuff time accepting these outlandish claims, we will never grow, individually, and as a whole human race.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:47 PM by spacevisitor

This thread is about Gordon Cooper, so it's always better to hear what the man himself said about his UFO experiences is it not.

YouTube Link

When a man with his marvelous state of record claims that he have seen some really strange flying objects which flying quite high, how high they could not tell because even they could not come to that altitude.
And then, when they wrote a rapport about what they saw then and get some mounts later as answer that he probably saw high flying seed pods,

you really must be very naive to buy that right.

Just my two eurocents.

For me, Gordon Cooper was really a man of the right stuff.

my 'sea pods' must be 'seed pods'

so I did make a correction, thanks Jim.

[edit on 2/11/09 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 2/11/09 by spacevisitor]

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:49 PM by triplesod

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

I dunno if I'm missing something but there is no suggestion in that quote that the aliens are not "grey's" or looking like them.

He said they are humanoid, with two arms and leg and readily identifiyable features. That could really be anything from a bear to a human to a Sasquatch to a frog to a grey or to anything else you can imagine as long as you give them sensory organs in a similar position to our own, which the grey's do have.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 12:57 PM by JimOberg

Originally posted by spacevisitor
When a man with his marvelous state of record claims that he have seen some really strange flying objects which flying quite high, how high they could not tell because even they could not come to that altitude.
If they then write a rapport about it and get some mounts later as answer that he probably saw high flying sea pods, you really must be very naive to buy that right.

Glad you brought up the 'seed pods'.

It shows how stories can evolve and incorporate external elements.

As folks will note in my 1984 study on Cooper's stories, linked above, I describe 'seed pods' as one 'official explanation' offered for what Cooper remembers seeing in the skies of Germany in 1951 (something, by the way, that the dozen other pilots from his unit, whom I interviewed, have no memory of at all).

The 'seed pod' datum came from a conversation with somebody who knew Cooper in the 1970s and recalled an earlier version of the story. Except -- he didn't say 'seed pod', he said 'migrating spiders' (which really do cause a few UFO reports). When I sent to manuscript to Cooper for his comments, I inserted a few factual 'tracers' to see if he would correct the,. 'Seed pods' was the term that I fabricated to elicit a response from him, 'no, they claimed it was spiders', that would validate his own and his associate's memories.

But he never complained. He read my report, never commented. and years later, he quotes a datum -- 'seed pods' -- directly FROM my draft, a datum that I had fabricated as a tracer pseudo-fact. He suddenly 'remembered' it as true.

How much else he remembered in a similar un-real way remains a question.

I also have a log entry of a conversation I had with Stu Nixon, then head of NICAP, in 1976. He recalled a then-recent conversation with Cooper in which Cooper mentioned chasing something over Germany, and then, Nixon added, "he finally decided it must have been weather balloons."

So the story HAS changed over the years!!

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 01:19 PM by tsloan

Originally posted by triplesod
reply to post by Skeptical Ed

I dunno if I'm missing something but there is no suggestion in that quote that the aliens are not "grey's" or looking like them.

He said they are humanoid, with two arms and leg and readily identifiyable features. That could really be anything from a bear to a human to a Sasquatch to a frog to a grey or to anything else you can imagine as long as you give them sensory organs in a similar position to our own, which the grey's do have.

I back your thoughts as well on this.
I was also thinking in terms of, if a government discovered another race of beings that were very similar to us in nature and they needed to cover up the discovery for "national security", I mean making up stories of little green or grey people would be one way to do it...I guess a sense of throwing the blood hounds at different target to chase. I would imagine that if a government agency buried it's self in a lie to hide the truth why not hide it as far away from the truth as possible. If people have been chasing little green/grey people and not a race of beings that are similar to us in every way except for skin tone or eye shade or hair color etc. then the whole story of grees/greys/dracons and such makes sense in a way. I mean really the most clear place to hide is in plain site....?

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 02:38 PM by TeslaandLyne

All hearsay as it always is and forever will be.
And humanoid like us, so true cause it would be us.
Can we get in contact with these people so they can turn
their backs to the EBE and the PTB which are some how a
conjoined horror of acronyms.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 03:11 PM by 0bserver1

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

Great find

Well he did say he saucer landing in the desert,so you can assume he knows more.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 03:19 PM by JimOberg

Originally posted by 0bserver1
Great find

Well he did say he saucer landing in the desert,so you can assume he knows more.

Where were all you eager believers in the early 1990s when Cooper was raising private capital for those bogus aviation engineering projects? If you'd lost all your life savings, as so many of his other target audience did when they trusted him with their money, you might be a little less slobberingly in love with the hero image.

Say.. it's not too late. Why don't you track down some of those victims and buy some of their worthless certificates off of them. After all, Cooper told them to trust him and give over the money... and they did. You still can too.

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 03:39 PM by sphinx551

The question is not whether aliens exist or not (they do).
The question now is when aliens will show themselves completely to Earth humans?

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 03:53 PM by one4all

Gideonhm,you are spot on with your assesment of how life behaves in the universe.

At a certain level of dna developement any species that has met the basic dna requirements can be geneticly modified,and I believe become sentient,or hold life like ours with our abilities.And yes learn to manipulate their physical environments and eventually gain tech.

This was where our primate ancestors were getting to when we were "upgraded"by a couple million years.

But the programming that is one that is able to adapt and continue on a path towards bi-pedal developement thereby making manipulation of the physical environment possible,as they say"in the image of".

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 03:58 PM by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
The bombshell had been dropped. Cooper went on to say that from the various reports of UFO contacts and abductions he had been privy to, he was convinced that the occupants of this crashed UFO were 'probably not that different from what we are,' - that they are almost totally humanoid (i.e., have two arms, two legs, a torso and readily identifiable facial features) in appearance.

As others have pointed out, nothing in this precludes his description from fitting a gray alien. The appearance of the grays are often criticized by skeptics for being too human. Though I suppose that is subjective, dependent on the viewer...

reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 04:01 PM by sphinx551