Don't want ``free health-care``? You go to jail

Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."

The note was a follow-up to Ensign's questioning at the markup.

The note:
www.politico.com...

Let's explain this...

Let's say i'm a libertarian. And I'm voting for Ron Paul. And I don't want this total control of US government over my life. And then this bill passes, and I have to pay the gov 1900$ because they imposed this legislation on me. I chose not to pay it, because, paying a fine to NOT have a service is against the most basic logic plus all the ideology involved.

Then, I would be charged with a misdeamenor, now correct me if i'm wrong, but that would make me lose my gun-owning right if found guilty. Plus, they would charge me 25.000$ and/or send me to jail for 1 year... and of course, there's all the middle ground of taking your car, your rights, your house, your children and your credit score, basically your whole life away, if you don't pay the government.

Their message is basically, BOW DOWN TO US, SLAVES.

So basically, refuse the government ``free health-care`` and YOU BECOME A CRIMINAL.

Obama, congress and the pharma lobby SURE ARE PRO-FREEDOM AREN'T THEY?

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS and me thinks they try to arrest people over this, innocent people will die, feds and citizens.

So what will the Obama supporters will pull out of their butts to explain this one and how great it is?

EDIT: I tell you right now, I will not pay the 1900$ fine, nor the 25.000$ fine, nor go to jail. So you better come and arrest me right after this bill passes.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by Vitchilo


Should have gone universal healthcare then...

Two hundred years from now we will look likes primates and feudal tifts -
And sure as crap who will look like the apes? I am a Leftist Libertarian
and if the gov. was just the payee as in the universal model there would
no reason for government control in this manner. Anyhow, easy to remember
the government but its much easier to forget the problem. I think my righty
libertarian friends should reform their minds, its all our problem same as a war.

Anyhow don't worry, this fine business will not float - just wait until 2020
when healthcare is $25,000 per family- Via Sub Mexico!

let me just say, they will have to take my life before they take my freedom.. and i wont be the only dead body on that day.

Originally posted by PApro
let me just say, they will have to take my life before they take my freedom.. and i wont be the only dead body on that day.

What freedom

list it - sounds like a blanket statement of a sheep, let us hear it?

reply to post by Vitchilo


"I chose not to pay it, because, paying a fine to NOT have a service is against the most basic logic plus all the ideology involved".

THAT...Was the strongest arguement I have heard so far when it comes to healthcare. B-R-A-V-O.

-side note.... I think universal healthcare for everyone would be a good thing, but not now. We simply arent that advanced in medical technology where we can simply give it away to everyone for free yet. In my opinion, until the medical industry advances its practices, cancers are cured at the cost of nothing, and medical equipment and drugs is at the point where it can almost cure anything;we will be foolish to put this healthcare for everyone into effect. WHO is anyone to say what you, or the next guy, or the person next to them, should be doing to help someone else out? If people want to help other people out, thats fine, but forcing people to do things they do not want to do was against the law the last time I checked, and not only that, but it is also just plain out WRONG.

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

"I chose not to pay it, because, paying a fine to NOT have a service is against the most basic logic plus all the ideology involved".

THAT...Was the strongest arguement I have heard so far when it comes to healthcare. B-R-A-V-O.

-side note.... I think universal healthcare for everyone would be a good thing, but not now. We simply arent that advanced in medical technology where we can simply give it away to everyone for free yet. In my opinion, until the medical industry advances its practices, cancers are cured at the cost of nothing, and medical equipment and drugs is at the point where it can almost cure anything;we will be foolish to put this healthcare for everyone into effect. WHO is anyone to say what you, or the next guy, or the person next to them, should be doing to help someone else out? If people want to help other people out, thats fine, but forcing people to do things they do not want to do was against the law the last time I checked, and not only that, but it is also just plain out WRONG.

I keep saying it

What about ten years and the current inflation or private premiums

Can you afford double what you pay now?

I cannot - I work the industry and it is a middleman scam frankly

So will you be able to?

reply to post by Janky Red


10 years? Who knows what this world is going to be like in 10 years.
The way this govt is just running off and doing as they please should make you think that there might not even be an America in 10 years.

You can say...Ok...I think its time for EVERYONE to have cars. EVERYONE.
Well ok...that sounds good and all..but whos going to buy my car? You are. Are you ok with that?

Ah, It's starting to make sense. . .
After the next staged economic collapse, the poor and middle class will no longer be able to afford private health care. So they "have" to get government run health care. I'm VERY curious whats going to be imposed in this bill. After all what "promises" has Obama kept? So why is he pushing so hard for this? This will certainly be interesting to be watched played out. . .

This is really strange.. for a while, I was under the impression that health care in the states was going to be like it is here in Canada... and it really isn't all that bad. But it is a common misconception to say that it is free. It is not "free". We get a bill, every three months I believe, which we are supposed to pay, and that covers the basics.. If you don't pay your bill that comes every three months, they can take a percentage of your income tax money. If you can prove to them that you are a low income person, I believe you don't have to pay as much.
If you don't pay your bill or do your taxes, and they don't get any money from you, they can refuse to service you if you go to the hospital or need health attention. The fact that they can do this means that it is by no means "free".
But I would definitely not complain about the way health care is here. I just hate it being called free. "Universal" is a better term.
But if the system is going to be the same, or similar, there (I didn't really look into it yet), I don't think it should really be worried about too much.
If it's not going to be the same as it is here, it appears that they have succeeded in passing a bill that the people would not generally approve of, by citing Canada's health care, and by using the same misconception of it being "free", even though it won't be the same. That's interesting.

This is even worse than that.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”

So there, it's 250.000$ and 5 years if you willfully DO NOT WANT THEIR TAKEOVER.

Once this is passed, COME AND ARREST ME GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE I WILL NOT PAY YOU A DAMN CENT.

did you try typing section 7203 into google?
you didn't, did you?

this thread is a crock. section 7203 refers to tax, the "note" reads like a responce to "tom, i forgot to keep the receipts, what's gonna happen to me!!!". why is it being rolled out in relation to healthcare?

§ 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax

Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under authority thereof to make a return.......

source

now this law was passed by congress in january 2008, so it really can't be blamed on the current administration. those obama supporters out there can keep whatever is in their butts for private reflection, thanks.

reply to post by pieman


I just flabbergasted you looked this up yourself. You don't get all your news from chain emails?

The only reason I popped into this thread was to refute the idea of 'free", but it seems pointless now.

reply to post by Seiko


actuially, i find that my most reliable source for news and views is the graffiti on the back of toilet doors, it just so happened that i was in cornell university law library earlier today and needed to take a dump............

The estimated cost for the cheapest single family, non-group health care plan under the current Reform Bill is $15,000 per year. Either cough it up, or go to jail! Nevermind that some 53 million US citizens are currently out of work, with many more to come. Yea, it will be easy for them to come up with an additional $15,000 per year, no problem.

Well, I guess the government will get some use out of those FEMA camps after all. They should be renamed Club Pelosi.

Originally posted by Angiras


Well, I guess the government will get some use out of those FEMA camps after all. They should be renamed Club Pelosi.

That is quite funny.

If Congress doesn't get the healthcare for themselves why would anyone be stupid enough to support it?

I don't know if anyone has tried to read through the 1900 page bill. I took a look at it, and it reads like a high tech manual, stereo instructions and a foriegn language all wrapped into one thing. Now from what I could tell on the penalty part, for failing to have health insurance, it is to be considered a tax on the person, but not a tax. (Yes it really does say that). But if it does pass, I will suggest we all contact lawyers who handles constitutional cases and argue this up to the Supreme court, on these basis: If you don't have health insurance, the government is going to fine you and give you a felony. With a felony conviction and record, then you lose the right to vote and own a fire arm, as well as a few other rights.

Originally posted by pieman
now this law was passed by congress in january 2008, so it really can't be blamed on the current administration.

All that section 7203 states is that it's illegal to not pay your taxes. That's hardly a sinister plot. The current administration is the one trying to push through the rule that states that you have to pay extra taxes if you don't comply with their new health care regulations.

SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of...


thomas.loc.gov p H.R.3962

[edit on 6-11-2009 by dbates]

I am a veteran on a combination of service connected and veteran disability pension. and i have free health care through the VA.

At the $985 i get from the VA a month after paying rent, utilities,
car insurance i have very little money left over.

And there is no way i am going to buy health insurance.

And they can not take it from my taxes because i do not pay any as the VA disability is not counted as taxable income.

Throw me in jail that would be a joke as it would then cost the jail system even more for my medical care then the VA pays.
and they could not even get me to work while i was in jail as i am disabled.

I do not think to much of this health care bill as it looks like it is written to just increase the profits of the insurance industry.

Most of the information from both sides in this debate has been bogus.

And the insurance industry has been feeding much of this information into the debate just to get what they want and eliminate what they don't want from the bill.

How many of you that have been following this bill have checked the sources on claims that have been made for and against this bill.

Many of the claims i have checked have ether bogus sources or sources that disappear within days after the claims are made.

This leads me to believe that the insurance industry is behind a lot of the disinformation.
and are shaping this bill with disinformation to get just the wording they want to increase there profits and cut there cost.

one story i keep hearing is if people that were injured in auto accidents that had to file for bankruptcy because of there medical cost because of the accident.
what happen to they auto insurance paying for this medical.
or was these stories of people that were driving without auto insurance and that is why they had to file banlruptcy.

and what and who will pay medical cost for auto accidents after these health care bill passes.
WILL the insurance companies DOUBLE DIP on us by requiring us to pay for health care insurance plus pay for medical cost under our auto insurance policies.

paying medical costs is one of the higher cost for the auto insurance industry.
and many of these companies sell both health insurance and auto insurance.

There is a more in depth thread on this topic here.

Please contribute any further questions and/or comments to the above linked thread.

Thank you.

Thread Closed.