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Clinton calls Israeli concessions "unprecedented"

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posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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Concessions that the Israeli government has made:

Two big ones in the last 20 years:

- Oslo Accords - handing autonomy over disputed territories to the Palestinian Authority (this means they are self governing)
- Complete disengagement from Gaza: read, ethnically cleansing Gaza of Jews so Palestinians could have it all to themselves

And recent concessions under current government:

- Removal of checkpoints in West Bank
- Re-opening of 100s of roads previously closed due to security constraints
- Releasing of convicted terrorists in exchange for Shalit video
- Transferring large parts of security to P.A.
- Forcefully preventing illegal settlers from building in Judea/Samaria

Three ways this can be perceived:

If you view this from the "All Palestine is for Arabs" stance, which some posters on this thread do, these items will not sway their opinion much. No point in a peace process for these guys, because their mind is already made up on the outcome of such a process.

If you view this from a "All Israel is for Jews" stance, which is the far-right Israeli perspective, then all of these items show weakness and appeasement.

If you view it from a neutral stance, i.e. "Both peoples have a claim to the land, let's decide who gets what from peaceful negotiations" then Israel has done a lot to promote peace, at great risk and at great cost to the Israeli public, and the Palestinians leadership has been utterly belligerent.

I think the Israeli PM has now called for a resumption of negotiations without preconditions with the Palestinian Authority what, 4 times?

That is to say, on four occasions, in public addresses, he has said "Let's just resume to peace talks". On each occasion the PA has rebuked him.

But Israel is the problem, hmmm?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by mattpryor]




posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
Concessions that the Israeli government has made:

Two big ones in the last 20 years:

- Oslo Accords - handing autonomy over disputed territories to the Palestinian Authority (this means they are self governing)


How much money did they get out of this?...... Yearly!!!!!!
No.. seriously!

Paying a nation to behave with civility but in the end doesn't is a great concession you say?

Hey guys, you get to be self-governing......within our prison walls!!!
Wooo Hoooo


Originally posted by mattpryor
- Complete disengagement from Gaza: read, ethnically cleansing Gaza of Jews so Palestinians could have it all to themselves

So the govt. didn't put jews in the same prison as Gazans?
Excellent!!!


Originally posted by mattpryor
But Israel is the problem, hmmm?


If we turn your home into a prison, will we be a problem?

So... how's life on the delusional side?



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Well again it depends on your perspective. If you think that all of Judea/Samaria and Gaza should be cleansed of Jews, as the Palestinian Authority does, then of course Israel hasn't done enough to facilitate this. They should kick out the Jews from East Jerusalem and from Jewish towns like Ariel, bar them from the Wailing Wall, burn down their synagogues and bulldoze their homes, schools and factories. Then Palestinians will have the "peace" they're after. Maybe. Until next year, when they tell us that Tel Aviv is a "settlement" too which should also be cleansed of Jews.

If that's your view, then that's fine. You're entitled to it. It's not mine.



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
Concessions that the Israeli government has made:

If you view it from a neutral stance, i.e. "Both peoples have a claim to the land, let's decide who gets what from peaceful negotiations" then Israel has done a lot to promote peace, at great risk and at great cost to the Israeli public, and the Palestinians leadership has been utterly belligerent.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by mattpryor]


May I refer you to "Operation Cast Lead", the world saw real time footage of bullet riddled babies and small children without limbs, along with a doctor who had his wife and children blown up by a tank while he operated to save the lives of children mangled by the IDF.

The world saw what the Israeli military is. They say there is no such thing as bad press, Gaza put your propaganda machine back to square one.

Don't come back with stories about useless bottle rockets and the like, when you have the military means to target the launch sites.

quote
B'Tselem wrote that its figures were "the result of months of meticulous investigation and cross-checks with numerous sources."

According to the report, 774 of the Palestinians who were killed did not take part in hostilities, including 320 minors and 111 women over the age of 16.

Of those killed, 325 took part in the hostilities and 245 were Palestinian officers, most of whom were killed in IAF aerial bombings of police stations on the first day of the war. The report could not account for the identity of 38 others.
end quote

If your neighbor shoots at your dog but misses do you go and bomb the local school? You do if your the IDF.



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by prof-rabbit
 


Presumably you won't mind if I come and lob some Qassam rockets at your kids' school then? Since you expect Israel to just sit and take it I guess you'd expect the same response from your own government?



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by prof-rabbit
 


Presumably you won't mind if I come and lob some Qassam rockets at your kids' school then? Since you expect Israel to just sit and take it I guess you'd expect the same response from your own government?


That is the response I expected, Qassam rockets are a useless protest, you on the other hand deliver bombs with laser guided precision, along with phosphorous shells and depleted uranium. UN compound? well you don't want witnesses do you..... Too bad you could not control the satellite feeds as the world watched the shells spew phosphorous across the city.



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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And lets not forget the propaganda machine...

quote
The Foreign Ministry itself is now pushing the idea, urging supporters of Israel everywhere to become cyberspace soldiers "in the new battleground for Israel's image."

The Megaphone, which was first reported on in The Jerusalem Post when it made its debut in July during the Lebanon war, alerts activists about polls and articles about Israel on the Internet and enables them to express their support or opposition by e-mail.

After just four months, it has been downloaded by more than 25,000 people from the Web site called GIYUS (Mobilization) which stands for Give Israel Your Support.

Amir Gissin, who heads the Public Affairs Department at the Foreign Ministry, has been working behind the scenes to promote the idea.

"During the war an initiative began, and we had the opportunity to do some very nice things with the Megaphone community," Gissin recently told the David Bar-Illan media conference in Ariel.
end quote



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by prof-rabbit
 


I suggest that you go to Sderot and tell the residents there about how useless Qassam rockets are.

Tell them to stop whining about their homes and factories getting destroyed. Tell them to stop complaining about the post traumatic stress, the school closures, the unemployment, the deaths, the injuries.

It is after all their fault for having the nerve to live there, is it not? I mean how dare they want a normal life and be able to go to work / school without getting shelled and bombed, for eight years? I mean talk about having your cake and eating it!

[edit on 2-11-2009 by mattpryor]



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
Well again it depends on your perspective.

Not perspective... Fact!
For you to list the treaty when both parties were paid to sign it shows that you will use anything as ammo.


Originally posted by mattpryor
If you think that all of Judea/Samaria

You mean the West Bank
Check this out


The Likud party is no good!
They made the names Judea and Samaria more extensively used

So, you meant the West Bank
It was called West Bank BEFORE it was called Judea or Samaria.

I know what you will say in response to this, but focus on the timeline, which I know you won't.

For you to say Judea And Samaria makes me wonder if you agree with the settlers there that they have biblical rights to live there as if god told them to.

Do you??



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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I, for one, could care less about this piece of Real Estate, except that I am tired of hearing about it!

The Jews are "God's Chosen People" and the Muslims are fighting a "Holy War," so my solution is to just let them all fight it out!! The rest of the world should promise to be "off duty" for 6-12 months while things sort themselves out over there!!

I could care less who wins the war, but at least all the posturing and threats would end!! Somebody's God must be wrong! Somebody will surely lose the war, if we are lucky, they will both lose, and some of the more logical thinkers of the world can move in to the recently evacuated Real Estate! Israel has some nice beaches, and Iran has Oil!!

So, Officer Friendly (U.N., U.S., USSR, etc) can make it known that he is taking a 6 month lunch break and his radio will be turned off. Whatever happens, happens, so be it!



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by yellowcard
To all of these people saying that Israel should just give it all back, I give you this question... Should The United States give Texas back to Mexico? After all both were claimed during war, if you say it's different then you're being a hypocrite,


The difference is that Israel didn't win "The Holy Land" by war. They were given it by the victors of WW2.....i.e. the US.

Your analogy would be correct if you included Canada comming down and making the US give back Texas to the Mexicans through force. Nice try though anyway.

BTW. How would you feel as an American if Canada did this? Hate Mexicans and hate Canadians for steeling your land? Well, think about that the next time you think about the Palestinian people.



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Lazyninja
 

Yes, according to you, I'm an old guy, and you seem to me to be an unknowing kid.

I live on land here in the US that flew under five different flags at one time or another.

The land you live on was owned by various groups, that were at some time in the past, determined by force.

Choke on it.

It seems to work for everyone else, so why is it that Israel is so different? A little biased, maybe?

Here's a news item. Israel is here to stay. Never going away, never again going to be defeated, or scattered.

That's a promise.


Your news is old news Doper,
Real Americans dealt with the five flag syndrome of which you speak.
And on our OWN don't ya Know.
And then we took some foreign country's flag under our wing .
A spoiled brat country that cannot exist without the protection of the USA.
Our military is dying constantly to protect these arrogant nuke hoarders.
Most of the world has turned against America since 1948.
Don't you get it?
Question.
Would you send your American children, wife, mother, father to die for the Zionists?
Don't wimp on this one doper.
Oh! Make that a promise!



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 




Would you send your American children, wife, mother, father to die for the Zionists?


that is such a cheap cop out

nobody SENDS their family to the military. It's a voluntary army...or didn't you know that?



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Donny 4 million
 




Would you send your American children, wife, mother, father to die for the Zionists?


that is such a cheap cop out

nobody SENDS their family to the military. It's a voluntary army...or didn't you know that?



American military volunteers (bless there very being) or their families do not send each other to die . Their ORDERS to go and die come from their Government. Mostly from the appointed not elected officials.
Are you saying military service in Israel is voluntary? Seems you know less than the one you answer for here, You are so smart about these matters . Can you tell me how many Israeli soldiers have died in the protection of America? Don't whimp like the guy I addressed first.
Seems to me you and Hilary are just on the bench or cheerleaders for Israel, not America.



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 

nobody is "cowering out" of your challenge.

Your challenge is a strawman argument. There is no correct answer

it'd be like saying

"If you HAD TO CHOOSE, would you rather molest a boy or a girl"

Umm, neither.

"BUT YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE"

...no i don't.

Come up with a better constructed question, a better argument, and perhaps a few facts here and there, remove the vitriol and sensationalism...and try again.


[edit on 2-11-2009 by Snarf]



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


Damn one of the most important jobs, do you have a link for it? I will appreciate it.



posted on Nov, 2 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by Snarf
 


Actually the question is very simple:

Can you tell me how many Israeli soldiers have died in the protection of America?


I would like to know how you came to this conclusion:


"If you HAD TO CHOOSE, would you rather molest a boy or a girl"



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


So...what say you about all of the Christians, Muslims, Atheists, and Agnostics that may have been involved in politics?

Sensationalism and Over generalizing.

Tell-tale signs of a complete lack of argument.


I finally agree with you on this!
Sensationalism.
Hilary is doing just that.

But freakin Over Generalizing is a term right out of 'The I Don't Know Crap Manual "
How can she possibly do that?



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Common Sense says...
OK......here is my prediction on the Middle East (drum role and fanfare)....

This will never, ever be worked out where both sides are happy....there has not been "peace" in the Middle East...EVER....History is full of problems from this part of the world and it will not stop....EVER...you can write off this part of the world getting along, it ain't gonna happen now because it never has....even a blind person can see this will not end...EVER

Just call be Nostradamus.


You are wrong! It will end when Jesus/Yeshua comes back.We have been
living in the end times for a long time.Prophecy is being fulfilled right before our very eyes.Israel is back where God wants her and a lot of
people want to destroy her for it.
You are right about the fact that man can't fix the middle east problem,
only God can fix that one!



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by bigyin
 


Yes, Israel will take back every piece and stop wasting time on false
peace.




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