Originally posted by jdub297

Whatever happened to running on principle?

Liberals, progressives and RINOs wouldn't know it if it hit them in the face.

I think it just did.

deny ignorance.

jw

I do have to ask what principle is that???

You name a REPUBLICAN president in the last half century and I will post up some fine principle.

Such a statement makes you sound hyper partisan - extreme- self righteous which is contrary to the original post...


JR

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Janky Red]

What makes you believe that the tea party is going to produce leaders of principle?

I think if you stepped back you might see that Obama's election was directly attributed to
Bush's performance, I would also say (given the signs I saw at one event over the summer) that the tea party is a reaction to Obama in the same fashion. The voting base has not changed their perspective which was evident when I saw zero anger expressed
at the big business's who systematically robbed us blind. Traditionally speaking wouldn't the conservative treatment towards business welcome less regulation of financial markets? Now if the tea party people riffed on big business and big government my ears would perk up...

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Janky Red]

Originally posted by jdub297
If you believed what you post here, then why immediately resort to the "FOX" and "Republican" tagging as if such connections

Because the tea parties have been hijacked by fox news and the republicans. The fact that Palin is backing this third party candidate aswell, considering she is verymuch pro-neocon, tells you this movement is a stealth republican campaign, and they are the only ones benefitting it.

It doesnt matter what you "think I believe", fox and the republicans are riding the show and I'll be happy to give you list if you want me to.

Come 2010, this movement will be steadfast behind the republicans. People are not anti-two party, your not "anti two party", your "anti-dem" and the fact is come 2010, there will be support for the republican party accordingly.

bandwagon:

Im not the one jumping on any bandwagon, and Im telling you to get off the RINO one. This "independent" candidate is backed by Palin and the neocons of the republican party, the tea parties were sponsored by Fox news and had republican speakers at most of the events. Dont tell me this is a third party movement please.

If you'd just keep with the opinion and speculation,

Speculation? At the last few tea party events Fox news was there to sponsor and promote in full force, after the neocon crap they pulled off for 8 years, and yet the teaparty protesters commended fox, despite their obvious two part affiliation. There were plenty of republican speakers participating there, and yet the teaparty protesters continued to walk hand in hand. And now we have the "God told Bush to invade Iraq" Palin backing a supposedly independent candidate that you and the tea party protesters are promoting yourselves.

I dont need to speculate, actions speak louder than words.

Of course, no self-respecting liberal would ever "tolerate" any outsiders' points of view, would they?

Considering your going out of your way to tell everybody this is an anti-two party event, and yet continue to make excuses for the participation of the two party mouth pieced media and speakers, whos tolerating what??

Your tolerating a republican run stealth campaign while telling everybody else this had nothing to do with either party. How does that work?

I make no secret for being liberal. I also dont parade myself around as being anti-two party but then promote one of those parties events.

There are alot of folks participating in republican events, and yet claiming to be against both parties. It just doesnt make sense.

SG

TPTB are angry at the serfs for their peasant uprising.

How dare they spread truth over the internet and then assemble and protest legally en masse against such stalwarts of lordship as Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Patrick Leahy, Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, and of course, the KING OF KINGS, THE ONE TRUE MESSIAH..................

Barack Barry Hussein Soteoro Obama!!!!!! aka THE ONE! HOW DARE THEY!


Hence the lords have legislation to shut down the 'net when the time comes. Ah...the peasantry. Tea bags are for Brits. Act like a real patriot American and get acquainted with real beacons of freedom:

Remington
Winchester
Springfield
Colt
Ruger
Smith and Wesson

Those names are the ultimate truth tellers and truth bearers. Let it be known.....it is time to spread their truth to the despots! Let freedom ring!

One bit of advice, let go of your party affiliation......Republican or Democrat doesn't matter. They are together behind closed doors laughing at the American People. They are in this corruption together, against the American People.
As long as they have "WE THE PEOPLE" arguing and fighting amongst ourselves, they have won. I say lets start a new party for Change, WE THE PEOPLE Party. A new party for Real Change, Hope and Faith. It worked for Obama, only he lied to the people. The only Real Change I see are the words and tactics in getting the agenda they really want, the NAU/NWO.
United we Stand, Divided we Fall.....get it?

All you have to look at is the Tea Party sponsors and promoters to know which team they are rooting for.

I hardly think that endorsing a 3rd party candidate declares that they are non-partisan, especially when the ones doing the endorsing are Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin that's partisan.

And isn't that what endorsing is all about? Endorsing someone who you have common ideals with?

And as stated earlier in this thread, Hoffman will be joining the Republican Caucus if elected to congress, im sure they took that into consideration before making an endorsement so in the end it's just another plus one for the republicans, which is obviously all that matters to them.

After the 2010 mid-terms the Tea Party will be tossed to the side by the GOP like a used hanky. But you can keep denying that you are being used, or maybe you already know you are, you just want to paint it as a bi-partisan movement. Sorry, we see through it.

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by jdub297

What makes you believe that the tea party is going to produce leaders of principle?

I think if you stepped back you might see that Obama's election was directly attributed to
Bush's performance, I would also say (given the signs I saw at one event over the summer) that the tea party is a reaction to Obama in the same fashion. The voting base has not changed their perspective which was evident when I saw zero anger expressed
at the big business's who systematically robbed us blind. Traditionally speaking wouldn't the conservative treatment towards business welcome less regulation of financial markets? Now if the tea party people riffed on big business and big government my ears would perk up...

I'm not sure if some people don't know how to post, or just choose to lie.

Whatever you've attributed to me as a quote, is NOTHING I'VE EVER SAID OR POSTED.

That is an outright fabrication, and I expect you to withdraw it, or leave.

deny ignorance.

jw

[edit on 1-11-2009 by jdub297]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Wow... that is a tremendously scary picture you paint there.
Seriously... name another time in history during which politics "turned into a stampede rightward"?

Yes, and ask yourself what extremes of "leadership" caused it.

Are you advocating the status quo? Or a regression to Weimar-style governance?

From your same source:

Had it not been for the economic collapse that began with the Wall Street stock market crash of October 1929, Hitler probably would not have come to power.
...
Unemployment went from 8.5 percent in 1929 to 14 percent in 1930, to 21.9 percent in 1931, and, at its peak, to 29.9 percent in 1932. Compounding the effects of the Depression were the drastic economic measures taken by Center Party politician Heinrich Bruening, who served as chancellor from March 1930 until the end of May 1932. ... In the meantime, the Depression deepened, and social discontent intensified to the point that Germany seemed on the verge of civil war.

In times of desperation, voters are ready for extreme solutions, and the NSDAP exploited the situation.

So, are these "times of desperation?" Or what is your point, to accept the status quo?

Here's the really scary question:

What if "HE" already HAS 'come to power,' riding in on the economic turmoil, promising change, vowing a "reformation of America?"

Maybe the next "hitler" is ALREADY HERE!

Excellent point, hh, and it's about time you guys admitted what many of us have been saying for over a year now.

I don't think it's too late to point out the dire consequences of so blindly following "the chosen one", but his power grows by the minute.

Thanks again for the superb reminder that those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

jw

[edit on 1-11-2009 by jdub297]

Until the foreign policy apparatus, the treasury mandarins, and the Fed are abolished you really have nothing but the same TLC and CFR stooges. The federal elections must be Diebold controlled as I don't think anyone in their right mind with all the scandals could have voted for the Bush or Clinton crime families and their neo-Con minions. With the control at the FEDERAL level there appears to be no way to vote our way out of the mess as the Diebolds are a part of the corporate military industrial complex. Just look at the fact that NO credible 9/11 investigation has been done in an environment where you and I are BOMBARDED with crime shows that basically say everything WE do can be tracked (duct tape batches, the bomb fragments, the lands and grooves in our weapons, and last but not least a scintilla of our DNA, a drop converted to ounces via PCR reactions, etc.) and yet somehow we can't get the government to acknowledge an ounce of the nano-thermite, find one credible jet engine part at the Pentagon, or a single video or black box from that eventful day in an environment where the whole day was a massive war game on a Tuesday election day when FEMA just happened to be stationed in NYC at WTC 7, the building with the most obvious implosion demolition and housing all the SEC fraud investigations on the day after Rumsfeld announced the missing 1 trillion that Dov Zakheim controlled. The MSM still has not mentioned Phillip Zach regarding the failed anthrax investigation in an environment where millions was paid to the falsely accused and another government lab worker was suicided after being conveniently charged with the crime. Not only are all the 9/11 victim compensation judges Zionists but these Zionists won't even let a single trial see the light of day, the message being just take the hush money rather than hunt down the various national government controlled intelligence agency perpetrators of the crime of the century. Hold your breath too as neither federal democrat nor federal republican has rolled back any of the patriot act power grabs; the patriot act was written years before 9/11 and curiously all of the "holdouts" on the voting for it were recipients of "anthrax letters." While Buchanan, Paul, Kucinich, and Nader all say the right things and seem to have way more integrity than what we're stuck with, you have to wonder about their gatekeeper status as all of them are still alive, have paid for mainstream jobs rather than being pariahs like McKinney, Trafficant, Tarpley, and others who've taken Zionism to task. They're apparently satisfied with the 9/11 none investigation and NONE of them will go on the record calling for a real investigation of that fateful day.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

The fact that Palin is backing this third party candidate aswell, considering she is verymuch pro-neocon, tells you this movement is a stealth republican campaign

No it doesn't. Anyone who comes to that conclusion is myopic.

[republicans] are the only ones benefitting it.

Actually, many people who are not republican benefit from reining in runaway government and the federal reserve. I tend to believe that all Americans would prefer a fiscally responsible government to what we have today.

Come 2010, this movement will be steadfast behind the republicans.

You've already been proven wrong in NY.

In N.C. and GA., where NON-PARTISAN elections have been OPPOSED by the Obama DoJ, people are asking for the right to select names on a ballott without party labels. Liberals are threatened, and fearful of an electorate actually voting for a candidate instead of a party.
YOU are on the wrong side here.

People are not anti-two party

Then why the uproar over non-partisan elections? Why can't the people of Kinston or Atlanta vote without seeing a party-affiliation on a balllot? Do you fear people making up their own minds? Can you?

Im not the one jumping on any bandwagon, and Im telling you to get off the RINO one. This "independent" candidate is backed by Palin and the neocons of the republican party

You interchange (intentionally misleading) "backed by" with "belong to."

Pure "projection."

So what if a candidate receives support from ANYONE? In your way of thinking, support equals beholden-to. I can see that from a liberal perspective where allegiance is bought and sold so readily, but just because YOU do it doesn't mean you can ascribe similar behavior to others.

the tea parties were sponsored by Fox news and had republican speakers at most of the events. Dont tell me this is a third party movement please.

You know that TPM began with Ron Paul's fundraising initiatives, and spread from there. No "FOX". No "RNC".

Anyone curious for the truth can search for it and see the truth.

Most Tea Party events DID NOT have republican officeholder speakers or fox sponsorship. The fact is that most CONSERVATIVES have voted Republican more often than not. NOW, we have alternatives. And liberals are frightened of it.

At the last few tea party events Fox news was there to sponsor and promote in full force

OK, so now we go from "most" to "the last few." And again, you seem to think that "being there" equates to "hijacking."

CNN was present at many. I saw, and was on camera from, ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates as well. (I happened to be in the company of a friend who was making a non-political documentary at the same time, using the crowds for effect)

Were they all in this together? Have ALL the media outlets co-opted the TPM, or just the ones you disagree with?

Considering your going out of your way to tell everybody this is an anti-two party event, and yet continue to make excuses for the participation of the two party mouth pieced media and speakers, whos tolerating what??

I've never said anything about "anti-two party." Non-partisan is not the same thing.

I make no secret for being liberal.

But you seem to think that non-liberal equals "republican" or "neocon" or whatever pejorative you think sounds smart and you can get away with.

Why doesn't it just equal "conservative" without a party label?

Why isn't this a two-way street?

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
This news made me sit straight up from sleep today. I was glad to hear the news. The GOP has made their party look like a clown, and I still see all the same old faces making appearances acting as if nothing is wrong with their platform. Unfortunately, the GOP and Democrats are only for big business and profit, they have abandoned the individual. This is why the Tea Party movement is gathering such momentum, time to give the people back their government, and return to a country that cares about it's citizens.

8 million more people voted for the democrats last year than republicans, the "change" has already taken place, it's just not "your change"...for me i've already gotten the government back and i'm happy with the way it's going. i don't want your radical ideas, and it seems there are few who do. so don't speak for me...and by the way I DON'T NEED TO WAKE UP...i've been around for along time, and i see how it works. the tea party ideas are unworkable in this day and age...maybe back 200 years ago, you might have had a go at it, but you cannot solve complex problems with simple slogans. you have to have people in government that not only look at solving an immediate problem, but also be able to look at the consequences that the action would create on the rest of the nation.
simple ideas expose simple minds.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Because the tea parties have been hijacked by fox news and the republicans. The fact that Palin is backing this third party candidate aswell, considering she is verymuch pro-neocon, tells you this movement is a stealth republican campaign, and they are the only ones benefitting it.

So did you read the article? Or did you see the words "tea party" and just automatically start doing your same song and dance? I suspect the latter. Had you read the article you would have seen that it lists quite a few people who were not supporting this guy until they realized that the Republican they were backing likely won't win. Only then did they change their tune and decide to back this guy.

What that tells you, if you aren't dead-set on minimizing and ridiculing everything you disagree with, is that the movement hasn't been hi-jacked but what is happening is that Palin, Gingrich, and the rest of the people mentioned in the article are trying to align themselves with the movement so that they can still feel relevant. They want to be on the winning side, that's all there is to it. Many of them have a mistaken belief that if they pretend to back the tea party movement they won't be ousted and they couldn't be more wrong if they tried.

Im not the one jumping on any bandwagon, and Im telling you to get off the RINO one. This "independent" candidate is backed by Palin and the neocons of the republican party, the tea parties were sponsored by Fox news and had republican speakers at most of the events. Dont tell me this is a third party movement please.

Come now, SG. You jumped on MSNBC and CNN's "bash-the-tea-party" bandwagon as soon as they started trying to minimize and ridicule it. It's blatantly obvious. Being covered by Fox isn't the same thing as being sponsored and you know it. Fox made a business decision to capitalize on covering the tea parties as soon as they realized that no one else was going to do it. It was a smart move and improved their ratings, but doesn't mean that they sponsored or started the tea party movement.

I dont need to speculate

Then why do you do so much of it?

Eh, every Teaparty participant I've ever met in person (including my former employer) have all shared the common characteristics of having crippling debt, and hiring illegal aliens, as well as paying employees under the table.

Mind you, they were all business owners. I was waylaid into accompanying my former employer on this sojourn for the "big" 2009 Teaparty in my state.

Personally, it seems like the 5-7 business owners I met kept a crazy set of double-standards, and if that's how the Teaparty folks want to be represented...by criminals and hypocrites who would destroy their own countrymen to support another country, meanwhile bemoaning issues here in the U.S.

Conflict much?