The state-of-art in UFO disclosure worldwide, page 2

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reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 10:17 PM by Skeptical Ed

reply to post by internos

Be that as it may, I do take issue with his following, sort of naive statement:
Considering the many precedents to date, this compiler’s recommendation is that active local UFO students formally contact their air force or defense staffs to provide the following arguments:

Skeptical Ed: "What's a local UFO student? Most UFO enthusiasts are us, already 'older' people. We're not really student as I graduated a million years ago(!) and you ATS members of this forum are not local nor students. And who do we contact? Ghostbusters? C'mon, there are no air force or defense staffs for us to contact to provide any arguments. We are not listened to which is why the 'Disclosure' movement sprang up and it's composed mainly of professionals. The 'Disclosure' is a little late since Lawrence Fawcett, Barry J. Greenwood started the 'movement' in 1984 by bugging the gov't agencies with FOIA requests which resulted in the book 'CLEAR INTENT.'"

(1) UFO phenomena represent no threat to national security; therefore it is not a military concern

SE: "Do you really think that Uncle Sam doesn't think that the airspace above the U.S. is free and open to just anyone that wants to violate it? Uncle Sam hasn't been able to do anything about UFOs but I'm sure it wishes it could. As far as our military, UFOs are a military concern. They're just helpless."

(2) UFO investigation must be left exclusively to science, by methodology, approach and instrumentation

SE: "And just what are scientists going to investigate? There's nothing to bring to the lab. UFOs are not amenable to allow scientists any headroom and they're not going to sit around and wait for scientists to approach them. They're not approachable! UFOs are here one moment and gone the next. They don't stand still!"

(3) To withhold information is hardly compatible with a democratic policy

SE: "This is pure ideological thinking and plain naive. First, we are not a democracy, we are a republic (...and the republic for which it stands.) And the government sets policy much to our dismay. We don't make policy, it's out of our hands. If we're not happy with the policies the U.S. gov't enacts, tough!"

(4) Many countries in the world, both large and small, have already made public their UFO records

SE: "Except there's no way of knowing just how much they release and how much they don't release. Our gov't has released tons of documents, usually involuntarily. But they're out there in books and on the Intenet."

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Skeptical Ed]

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Skeptical Ed]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:25 PM by spacecase7717

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

I agree with you

The countries who are releasing info are just putting stuff out to appease the masses. Especially the UK I believe they know a whole lot more than what they are telling. No government is going to release any information that gives them the upper hand. I can't really say as I blame them.

I believe in UFOs. I would love to know everything, but I am not to sure I want some of these other countries (North Korea for one) to have the capability to fly around undetected with a new power source that makes the atomic bomb look like a firecracker in comparison.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:37 PM by tsloan

This doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know...and I consider myself novice at best on the u.f.o. subject. This is why ATS can never be taken to the next level. The speculations and just plain old recycled stories and news twisted around to get a few "stars & flags"... I have yet to see any "new" ground breaking solid information on u.f.o's it's all been recycled stuff for the last 5 years it seems like.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:53 PM by karl 12

Originally posted by QuantumJediCouncil
Greer

Thats a classic pic.

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

Why do you keep contradicting yourself?

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
"UFO Disclosure is wishful thinking by believers. We non-believers know that there is nothing to disclose

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
If it wasn't for the gullibles ATS wouldn't exist.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:55 PM by Skeptical Ed

Originally posted by tsloan
This doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know...and I consider myself novice at best on the u.f.o. subject. This is why ATS can never be taken to the next level. The speculations and just plain old recycled stories and news twisted around to get a few "stars & flags"... I have yet to see any "new" ground breaking solid information on u.f.o's it's all been recycled stuff for the last 5 years it seems like.

For me it's been more like 47 years! Except being new in the '60s, UFOlogy was exciting with lectures all over the place some of them very satisfying.

reply posted on 31-10-2009 @ 11:58 PM by hoghead cheese

Thats one thing I've always wondered, what about the international disclosure individuals. I have never heard of this guy, I guess when they talk about aliens and UFO's in the US, they try to use just american researchers but don't go looking for international individuals. I want everyone to watch next week premier of V on ABC. It's a remake (actually a new show all together) of the original V which came on back in the early 80's on NBC. They are coming at it in a different way from the NBC original. They are showing that people may or will worship the visitors (Project Blue Beam), and remember ABC is well connected to the religious right and family groups.

So why have this show on this channel. I think that we are seeing a ramp up to something coming out, I hope it's the December disclosure as people have talked about but it could be later. Also Richard Hoagland made a comment on Coast to Coast a few weeks ago about why it seems likely disclosure may happen soon. It's because many of the people who had this classified as secret or hidden because of religious and/or secrecy sake in order to be in control are retired or dead or gone. So the "new class" of scientists and researchers and even the public who don't think the world will explode are having to reverse engineer projects and information in order to find out what they where hiding is true or not. Imagine that your grandfather dies or goes senile and forgets about alot of stuff. Then you go to take care of his things and while doing this you find documents saying that he has 1 billion dollars in a swiss account. You are in shock and can't believe this man who had a three bedroom house and modest life lived like this and not like a billionaire. You have to research and look into it before you believe it.

And that is whats going on now. The new guys are finding information in files and hidden warehouses and such about this or that and can't believe if it's genuine. Because they can't believe why they would hide this information. What happens to a secret if the two or five people that know it are dead or have forgotten about it, it's a story that needs to be verified if found.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 12:36 AM by flyingfish

I have never seen anything that would make me believe there is anything alien going on.I have looked and even want them to be real but again I can explain it all away.There is no doubt in my mind something is going on.
Lies have short legs.I can't help believe new technology is being developed and being past off as imagination.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:02 AM by poppoppop

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:07 AM by QuantumJediCouncil

reply to post by karl 12

Yeah well its a bit disturbing too. His tounge is a little long don't ya think? Good grief. Yeah, I don't know what to make of it. Just another unexplained thingamajig.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:28 AM by Skeptical Ed

Originally posted by karl 12
snip
Thats a classic pic.

So he does have a tongue! I thought it would have been his foot.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:34 AM by Skeptical Ed

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by Skeptical Ed

Why do you keep contradicting yourself?

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
"UFO Disclosure is wishful thinking by believers. We non-believers know that there is nothing to disclose

Originally posted by Skeptical Ed
If it wasn't for the gullibles ATS wouldn't exist.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

I don't understand your intent. What is contradicting about what I said? I don't see the connection between the 2 quotes. One has to do with the gullibles/believers wanting something that does not exist (gov't UFO secret documents containing more than sensitive information not connected with aliens or reverse engineering or a UFO crash at Roswell or anywhere with the retrieval of alien bodies, etc.) and the fact that ATS is populated by a majority of believers/gullibles.

Care to explain your POV?

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:57 AM by Advancedboy

I know that we all are excited about the disclosure, and that we believe that Ufo technology has been retrieved and that US military are hiding some exclusive techology and exotic planes in their hangars. Well, as to exotic airplanes, I used to believe that, when the procurement of R&D was directly going into buidling exotic machinery. But let`s not forget that salaries and expenses have trippled but the direct apportiioned investment hasn`t. There were only a couple of those exotic machines during the golden era of military aviation- 80ies and beginning of 90ies. So what makes you believe that they have Aurora among other aircraft? Doesn`t it seem strange to you that Lockheed Martin couldn`t build X-33 Venture Star because of an exploded Nytrogen tank, but somehow secretly they could tackle an Aurora type Jumbo jet sized Mach-zillion revolutionary aircraft?
Remember mother nature is a bitch. And nature always sides with the hidden flaw. The simplest way to explain the huge money drain into military with `secretiveness code `being attached to it might have a simple explanation to it. You can not track it. Although being open minded and truly believing that something has been retrieved and /or built I still leave the door open to the third option- the biggest money laundering in world history. Unfortunately this seems to be the simplest answer. And you know what tendency the simplest answers usually have......

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 05:14 AM by stanlee

reply to post by RiotComing

actually, raiden, and riot, the real reason people like that say anything at all about greer, is because UNLIKE THE SELF BACK PATTER... he actually does the research and foot work. he doesnt lie and fabricate his history, or his accomplishments the way SOME eds do. I think he is a bit strange, and dont really care for him but greer DOES do a tonne of foot work and compiling.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 05:19 AM by stanlee

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 05:25 AM by stanlee

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:33 AM by Komodo

I just thought I'd toss this out here in the light of this excellent piece of work to enlighten our understanding of why it's taking a LONG time to get any where with 'disclosure', in the true sence of the word as describe in the OP.

I was trying to make a comparision of what I could compare UFO's against to see how the data stacked up... here's what I found..

this is just a couple of searches.. however, it's really gives a pretty good look at what's gong on behind the scenes.. wounder what would happen if UFO's got as much attention as Entertainment, War or Science??

Google Trends on UFO's_2003/04

Google Trends on UFO's vs Entertainment_2003/04

Good Trends, UFO, Science, Religion, War

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 09:00 AM by jkrog08

reply to post by tsloan

Well many people don't NOT know of these things you "already know". And that is the very reason why "nothing has happened over many years". The point of the OP's, such as others that have made recently (and attempted throughout the WOLRD) is simply to educate the masses, the ones who don't know. Because only then will be able to get ufology taken MUCH more serious and maybe get to to the bottom of it. I really finding your choosing of words distasteful to the OP, especially this one, who has spent MANY HOURS trying to make ufology what it should be, even taking long times to debunk many formally "solid cases". Besides this OP, you should be careful not to come of so apparently rude or snide. If you have nothing more productive to say, then it might be best not to say it at all (just don't S/F, nor reply if you disagree to that level of non proper communication or discussion

), as it easily derails great threads like this one (not only on ATS, but in the real world too.)

[edit on 11/1/2009 by jkrog08]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 09:08 AM by jkrog08

reply to post by internos

Great job my friend, thanks for putting a REAL aspect on all this "disclosure talk". It is also important for members (and all) to learn of such GREAT ufology researchers(as presented on your in your OP), as well what kind of real "disclosure" is actually going on. This was a MUCH needed thread and I for one applaud you on this.

S/F...

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 10:48 AM by internos

Originally posted by tsloan
This doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know...and I consider myself novice at best on the u.f.o. subject. This is why ATS can never be taken to the next level. The speculations and just plain old recycled stories and news twisted around to get a few "stars & flags"... I have yet to see any "new" ground breaking solid information on u.f.o's it's all been recycled stuff for the last 5 years it seems like.

Hi, tsloan

Well, you forgot to mention those who spread some BS whatsoever in order to get some attention, or/and a few stars: they would be some actual issue, because they often try to derail the threads because obviously they have nothing better to do but open their mouth, no matter the reason, but fortunately, here on ATS, they are some minority group.
Now i'll pose to you a STRAIGHT question so please post some STRAIGHT link as answer:
WHERE has this discussed before? Just ONE link.
If you are unable to post even just a link about what is being discussed in the OP, then consider yourself automatically belonging to the aforementioned category, having provided the proof by yourself.
Thank you in advance for the link that you WON'T provide.
Have a nice day

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 10:51 AM by VitalOverdose