greed, hate, what is wrong with us???

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
Is fatty trying to reduce other squirrels changes at getting food?......don't know!!

Bully Tom Cat is certainly trying to reduce the other cat's chances of getting food.

As for Fatty the Squirrel, I do not know if the scenario applies or not. I do know Fatty insisted on cutting in line and getting his 1st (he'd scratch your legs if you fed another squirrel while he was in front of you). The normal squirrels seemed to line up, keeping a distance between each other and would approach when it was their turn. Fatty had no respect for lines.

I do not know if Fatty was trying to reduce the other's chances of getting food; but, my instinct and observation seems to indicate this was not the case for Fatty.

reply to post by Trexter Ziam


Do you think it is possible that a creature without a natural form of social structure such as a cat can develope such a concept when he is forced to share his world with a congener and thus create the concept of greed??

It would explain a lot about the behaviour of cats and the concept of greed....for me anyway!!!

Peace

I hate to sound like some old fuddy duddy, but, I believe that TV and Music and games have desensitized the population. Have you ever watched a show and wanted something you saw on it? Listened to a song because it set a certain mood? Played a game to 'releive stress'?

Music says a lot of the time that which we want to say but don't say, but lately people, act out that which they hear in music, and games, and movies.

reply to post by space cadet


I absolutly agree with you Space Cadet.

But i am trying to get to the bottom of this behaviour. I also noticed that what we want seems to be on the increase for some time now. Has society lost touch with what it needs or is it simply a logical reaction to living in a complex social structure??

If everybody has the basic needs society will look for new things to "have" in order to reflect on ones status.

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by Trexter Ziam

 

Do you think it is possible that a creature without a natural form of social structure such as a cat can develope such a concept when he is forced to share his world with a congener and thus create the concept of greed??

A woman who owns a "cattery" taught me a few things. Cats ARE social! Cats are socialized in their first TWELVE weeks. If a kitten is deprived of it's fellow kin (kitten siblings mostly) before 12 weeks of age, it does not 'socialize' properly and later it life will attack owner's legs and such other bad habits.

Bully cat was socialized in a pigpen, literally! He preferred the company of pigs and even snorts like a pig when he doesn't get his way. He was also socialized with the humans who owned that mini-farm ... from whom we got the cat.

The other cat was a feral cat, rescued by a feral cat rescuer (my sister). He was socialized to 12 weeks with other older cats and his sister kitten.

So, your assumption about cats not being social creatures is in error. They do have social structure as well. A cat "shares" food with those in his natural or adopted "pride". That is why a cat brings a mouse to its owner ... to share. They also expect owners to share. It's part of their social structure.

pride=family

You may be getting closer now though. I'll have to go "pander" a tree and work it out myself.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Trexter Ziam]

We are damaged beings, assisted to becoming this way because we are easier to maintain in this state(as perceived by governing structures) and wish and hope for the best in a world that works constantly to beat us down. It is a shame we must be bigger than ourselves to overcome such an obstacle and strange we ever allowed it to function the way it does. The explanation could be that we never had true, fully developed freedom and functionality. Or the knowledge and knowhow to attain a semblance of the promised good that can come of it. I think we have that now and it will only take us(we, not you or I, but us as a people, it can't be done before then) to see it and, poof, it will be so. Things that we do not want to be WILL NOT BE when this is true of our relationship with eachother as a whole. I have hopes even through the bleakness that we will see this. Even "just before it's too late" is better late than never and, oddly, probably how it would have naturally happened. A kind of forced inner-evolution. We'll probably wonder how we ever thought it'd come through anything but unmistakable neccessity when it's all said and done.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Crane4]

I just have to post a major observation that I have made during my 43 years of life!

I have lived in many countries around the world, and even one year in USA (highschool Ice hockey) during the early 80's - but I have never seen the level of greed that I expericenced in the U.S this last decade.

Things has gone haywire over there since the early 1990's

Don't get me wrong here since all the world is affected now, and I can see greed everywhere, but you seem to be especially affected by this because of the "Corporated Hyper Capitalism" that has gone totally out of control!

I don't blame any Americans ordinary folks especially, since most of them are among the nicest people on earth, but something has really gone sour these days and last decade!

So I blame the American Corporations for destroying this world, just look at the board of directors of many corporations.

Heck! you even find the neocon clowns like Rumsfeld and Cheney at those boards - and they are seriously not well in their heads, and are real egomaniacs and psychopaths/sociopaths of the worst kind I think!

Salute!


[edit on 2-11-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Trexter Ziam


Maybe i should have said "complex social structure"??

So would you say it is greed that fatty is displaying??

I'm gonna hit the library to do some research on the subject.

Hey, do you know of any good phychologists, with a degree on this subject, that may have published something about this??

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by Trexter Ziam

 

Maybe i should have said "complex social structure"??

So would you say it is greed that fatty is displaying??

Complex? No, I'd call it a simplified social structure.

At first I thought it was greed; but now that we get into the feline social structure I am re-considering and think what he is displaying is directly related to their simple social structure which basically revolves around food acquisition and sharing.

My current take is this is his way to show the opposite of sharing (non-acceptance into the "pride") to the newer cat. It's been 5 years now though and the newer is still not accepted.

So, I am no longer strong in my belief that what he is showing is greed.

Sorry, I don't know any books to recommend on the psychology of greed.

It is still thought as greed if all your life your poor as crap , your bills go unpaid and all that you want is to own your own home and to raise your own kids that you gave birth to , again is the wanting those things when you v never had them thought as greed or just trying to get even with the board ?

Originally posted by alysha.angel
It is still thought as greed if all your life your poor as crap , your bills go unpaid and all that you want is to own your own home and to raise your own kids that you gave birth to , again is the wanting those things when you v never had them thought as greed or just trying to get even with the board ?

Alysha, friend,

I nor anybody else can judge wether or not something you want is greed or not. Only you know this.....

It has everything to do with taking more then you need or deserve. Are you? I believe you are not......

I am truely sorry but life is that complicated and easy at the same time.

regards,

Operation Mindcrime.

reply to post by operation mindcrime


again thank you

time for me to get distracted somehow . aha more research for me . yay .

reply to post by Trexter Ziam


Hey Trexter,

I have been going over and over this thread and i cannot seem to comprehend the term "greed". Is it an emotion? Or is it like you stated earlier:

How about this. Presume it's NOT an emotion. A hormone or two perhaps.

I know jack about biology and what function a hormone has or in what way it can influence our thoughts. Please elaborate on this (if you are still around)

As for the description you gave regarding the definition of greed...

"Noun 1. greed - excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves "

in combination with your conclusion : "I feel a person can be greedy without having an other to better."

Let us just suppose that we only have one man living in this world. He then has no "other" to better. Let us also assume he has an excessive desire to acquire more than he needs or deserves.
I guess we can scrap the "deserve" part for this man because if he were to lay on his back all day long and not do anything and claim at the end of the day he deserves a good meal, he is correct for he has done more then anybody else. (right??)
For the "need" part. Is there a necessity for him to take more than he needs without others around? Why would he pluck the entire tree if he cannot eat it all at once.

Only until we introduce a second man into this world would the picture change. He could not claim anymore that he deserves something without reflecting on what the other man has done. And he sure as *** would pluck the entire tree before anybody else came along and deprived him off his change to eat from it.

So that is why i feel my definition

Greed is also applied ego with the intend to favor yourself and/or profiling against another. The ego wants while the other is being used as a reference point.

was correct.

Peace

PS: Happy new year.

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Wow! You got back to me two months later; now it's another seven months before I noticed.

Okay, how about this:

Greed for knowledge as in facts. Some of us are so HUNGRY for facts, it could be counted as a type of greed.

Now, if I was the only person left in the world, I would STILL be hungry to learn more 'stuff'.

Greed still does not require an 'other' to better in my books. It does in your books. Is it our personal perspective or is the difference our hormonal differences in thought or something else entirely?

Edit: Dah-DING! Light bulbs! I'm equating greed to "hunger"! Greed, as an appetite.



[edit on 16/8/2010 by Trexter Ziam]

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

Wow! You got back to me two months later; now it's another seven months before I noticed.

Well, ain't nobody going to accuse us of not thinking things through..

Thanks for the reply....

Greed for knowledge as in facts. Some of us are so HUNGRY for facts, it could be counted as a type of greed.

Intuitively I feel that the subject of desire has to be limited in supply in order to create a sense of urgency in obtaining it. "The hunger for.." can indeed be interpreted as greed but only with "limited" things, such as the hunger for power.

Facts are limitless in supply. I suspect the hunger for facts can indeed be a direct result of reflection with one's surrounding. "You want to be smarter then anybody else" but I think the drive behind this hunger has more to do with pride then greed.

(Now I am left questioning whether or not "pride" and "greed" are related)

Now, if I was the only person left in the world, I would STILL be hungry to learn more 'stuff'.

Even if we disconnect the "hunger for facts" from reflection on the outside world then it still does not count as greed. According to my definition (which mean...??) there has to be a "favoring" of ourself over an other. Since one fact is obtainable for more then one person there really is no sense of "favoring ourself over an other".....

Greed still does not require an 'other' to better in my books. It does in your books. Is it our personal perspective or is the difference our hormonal differences in thought or something else entirely?

That is what is making this discussion so interesting (at least from my side )

Edit: Dah-DING! Light bulbs! I'm equating greed to "hunger"! Greed, as an appetite.

I can go with this definition but the question remains whether or not the subject of appetite is limited in supply.

Hunger for power = greed
Hunger for facts = curiosity? self preservation? .....?

Peace

No, I don't believe pride and greed are related.

Desire - yes - desire to know, KNOW, know more.

Sense of urgency - YES! If it's not learned now (before death), there might not be an opportunity to learn more in the afterlife.

Pride? No. Since nobody, not even my spouse has any idea of the facts I hoard.

How about this one?
Greed - the desire to OBTAIN more than needs dictate.