greed, hate, what is wrong with us???

reply to post by operation mindcrime


The sad fact is that humans are greedy, hateful and warmongering.

That is why we do not deserve to live on this beautiful planet, which we are wrecking.

A lot of people are lovely, but unfortunately the powerful people are not.

And I do not know why we think we are above animals - most animals are nicer than humans.

reply to post by Trexter Ziam

Greed is inherent and unending, even when a goal or conquest is satiated. Greed can never be satisfied.

Short term rush of success will only satify shortly then it is on to a new goal. So that is why it can never be satified....

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by Trexter Ziam

 

fine.....but to posses, isn't that a concept which is foreign to every other living thing beside humans???

To experience joy in obtaining something which you have pictured in advange, isn't that an emotion exclusivly reserved for humans??

Peace

Back to the cats. The older "bully" does "possess" and he knows it! He has his own toys and one stuffed toy in particular he hugs it, licks it goodnight, and then tucks it under his head as a pillow.

Further, when unloading shopping bags, both cats are eager to see if they got anything! So "joy" perhaps?

Territorialism is a less specific example of "possession". (see wolves for example)

To experience joy in obtaining a particular goal or item isn't greed. Greed goes far beyond that.

Love is the only reality which exists on every level existence.Hence fear is the belief that HuMAns created to oppose the Oneness of the reality and separation was the ultimate outcome and thus is the world we think we live in

Originally posted by VitalOverdose
I think people are greedy because none of us live forever.

I don't know about that. I'm 52 and I feel like I've been here forever, and now there is little that I really want after years of discovering STUFF ain't all that important.

Here's something to add into this while contemplating this greed thang. Hundreds of years ago people weren't lusting for large screen LCD home entertainment center. Nobody demanded Dolby on their superheterodyne radios. Nobody needed a cell phone. Nobody needed credit cards. Some didn't even need money. So, what the heck has happened since then and up to now to have changed all that? Find the answer to that, kill it, and you'll have solved the greed issue among these hideous Earth creatures, ha.

Greed and whatever is simply the effect of a mind that has let the body become the ruler. When one becomes in tune with their Mind then surely the body will absolutely follow!

reply to post by Divinorumus


Thanks for the reply Divinorumus,

You are correct that greed seems to be on the increase with human beings but the desire to obtain or have something with the only intend of having more than the other......this is not a new concept. It's as old as mankind but is it exclusive to mankind??

Peace

reply to post by Divinorumus


Yes, Div,

There is just too much manufactured stuff around now, and ads create the desire for the latest whatever - this has weakened us. Also, I just watched a documentary about cell phones giving you brain cancer - so what hope for our current teens?

Let's get back to the simple things in life - some hope!

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
To experience joy in obtaining a particular goal or item isn't greed. Greed goes far beyond that.

Agreed!! But that wasn't my entire definition of greed...

Psychologically speaking, the function of greed is that by connecting with our inner greed, we desire something outside ourselfs, if and when that desire is fulfilled, including the road to it, it gives us a feeling of satisfaction and pleasure.

Greed is also applied ego with the intend to favor yourself and/or profiling against another. The ego wants while the other is being used as a reference point. Greed is the engine, through the creation of insatiable desire, to satisfy yourself later.

So to experience joy in obtaining a particular goal whist reflecting against another seems like a more appropiate definition..

Peace

Remember, Greed, hate, war, vengeance, fear are in fact causes and NOT AFFECTS! When one realises this then the appropriate mind altering causes can simply take effect and change the behavior

Greed is most likely a character attribute, trait, flaw, whatever. I'm remind when I was a kid and there was two out of the five of us siblings that would just cry cry cry and whine if they noticed that my chocolate chip cookie had even so much as one more chip than theirs appeared to have. "WHAAA, that's not fair, Mikey got a bigger piece of pie than me." Cry babies.

As adults, this cry baby character flaw is probably what drives people to greed. They see their neighbor gets an iToy, so they absolutely need one of those too or they will feel inadequate and unfulfilled. These are the same people that get upset at work when they discover their co-workers were making more than them. Doesn't matter that they were content just moments ago before they discovered this fact, ha. Greed and jealousy are probably intertwined in all this too.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Divinorumus]

Originally posted by Epsillion70
Remember, Greed, hate, war, vengeance, fear are in fact causes and NOT AFFECTS! When one realises this then the appropriate mind altering causes can simply take effect and change the behavior

War is not an effect??....elaborate.

Fear can also be usefull but how it can be a cause?...still chewing on that one..

Vengeance and hate are very closely linked.......i do believe you just gave me an other emotion which is exclusive to humans. Thanks!!!!

Greed and hate.....well were on that topic right now.

Peace

reply to post by Divinorumus


funny how that works. I have three kids running around the house and believe me these kind of problems are all to familiar.

But what i noticed is that even the 1,5 year old seems to reflect his "possesions" to that of his two older brothers. So it makes me think that it is not something we do intentionally but rather a human trade which we all have.

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
To experience joy in obtaining a particular goal or item isn't greed. Greed goes far beyond that.

Agreed!! But that wasn't my entire definition of greed...

Psychologically speaking, the function of greed is that by connecting with our inner greed, we desire something outside ourselfs, if and when that desire is fulfilled, including the road to it, it gives us a feeling of satisfaction and pleasure.

Greed is also applied ego with the intend to favor yourself and/or profiling against another. The ego wants while the other is being used as a reference point. Greed is the engine, through the creation of insatiable desire, to satisfy yourself later.

So to experience joy in obtaining a particular goal whist reflecting against another seems like a more appropiate definition..

Peace

I disagree. I feel your definition embodies more than 'greed' alone. I do agree with this dictionary definition of greed. www.thefreedictionary.com...
"Noun 1. greed - excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves "

I feel the one-upmanship you comingle with your greed definition is in error. www.thefreedictionary.com...
"Informal the art or practice of achieving or maintaining an advantage over others, often by slightly unscrupulous means"

We don't seem to have an appropriate word for the "Show-up the Joneses".
I feel a person can be greedy without having an "other" to better.
I also feel a person can be "one-uppity" without being greedy.

Having a showey and one-uppity nest, dance or plummage is inherent in the bird kingdom. He who has the better nest, gets the girl birdie.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Trexter Ziam]

Another perspective:

We all desire al the good the Universe has for us. We however were taught that to have the good is evil and that to have can only be aquired by hard work and stealing from others.

The reality is I can have all the good the Universe wants for me without me taking it from any other being. And that having is not evil.

There are those who do however believe that we live in scarcity and that they may not be worhty of the same good as another.

Yet we are all worthy of all the good and the universe is unlimited. As all things come from the same substance as that which created the universe, we are all of the same substance and the substance is available to all.

We need only claim our good for it to be so. Yet we claim what we do not want, complain about what we do have and denigrate those who have and are prosperous and happy, that which we claim we do want.

So it is not greed so much as it is fear. We cling to our things because we fear we will never get it again or anything at all.

When we move out of fear to unconditional love, the concept of sharing takes on a whole new meaning. As I give, I recieve all the more.

All is energy and becomes stagnate when we cling to it. When we share we not only free up the material things in our world, but the mental and Spiritual as well.

Things are just the symbology of the real. We do more for all humanity when we see it through the eyes of truth, and truth is not affected or contained in appearances.

The Truth will set us free and all we have to done is claim it and let it, (the energy of truth) have its way.

So we are all prospered and provided for and there is not greed and nothing to fear. Truth stated has power whereas illusion or lies are nothing and produce nothing.

So to claim people are greedy is to see only the illusion and to state a lie. It is also the case that we see others as we really see ourselves.

thus if you study the words of JEsus, ( not the doctrine or dogmas of churches claiming to be christian, but the true words of Him alone) you will see he is making staements of truth and is understanding the deeper psychology of the human race.

He came to demonstrate the truth of our being and the power that lies within. He did not say that having was bad, in fact he said we would have even more on earth.

As we are made in the Image(ination) of a greater-then-we-are-being, and this being gave us a lavish and unlimited universe and world, we are insulting it by denying ourselves all the good that is for us.

See the fields white for the harvest, don't be decieved by appearances. The appearance of greed is only desire for the good, given a false name.

reply to post by spiritwomyn



"We need only claim our good for it to be so. Yet we claim what we do not want, complain about what we do have and denigrate those who have and are prosperous and happy, that which we claim we do want."

You summed it up perfectly in those words. People complain about what they have and denigrate those who have in abundance. True happiness isn't bought or found in a material item. It's found within yourself.

reply to post by Trexter Ziam

"Noun 1. greed - excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves "

Okay, that is a valid definition of greed but what is used as reference to conclude one has "more"!! More than what?? More than the other....

So by reflecting our possesion to what others have we are able to feel the sensation of greed. Can animals reflect in this way? Can animals even conclude that one is more than two??

So the definition of greed is fine but i'm trying to see if it is unique to humans. That's why i created my own, more complete, definition of this concept.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Okay, i was reading over what i just typed and to answer my own question "more than what??", according to the dictinary definition more than one needs but still......

greed - excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves

Back to the fat squirrel, did he take more than he needed because he desired to acquire or posses more than he needed or deserved. Did he actually desire, in advance, to get more nuts than he needed. Or was he simply reacting to the availibilty of food??

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
Back to the fat squirrel, did he take more than he needed because he desired to acquire or posses more than he needed or deserved. Did he actually desire, in advance, to get more nuts than he needed. Or was he simply reacting to the availibilty of food??

Peace

The availability of food (natural as opposed to the peanut-feeding family who lived there) was substantial. Pines and oaks both provided plenty of forage to sustain the several communities of squirrels.

"Fatty" took more than he could ever consume in his lifetime. There was no lack of food, nor had there been ever in his lifetime. "Fatty" clearly took more than he deserved or needed.

The most remarkable thing about "Fatty" as I said before, he was anti-social and the rest of the squirrels were social (community-minded).

reply to post by Trexter Ziam


Which is strange because i'm getting the feeling "greed" has a strong social basis. The term "greed" might very well be only applyable to socialised structures....(still working on that one!!)

Greed can only manifest when the population increases and the resources are limited. There is only so much resources to go around. Thus, for one person to amass a lot of wealth, he has to reduce what somebody else can get.

Again, is Fatty hording all this food because resources are limited? According to you, no. Is fatty trying to reduce other squirrels changes at getting food?......don't know!!

Peace