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Did cops go too far busting up improper yard sale?

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posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 04:53 PM

Did cops go too far busting up improper yard sale?

The facts are these: After 60 years in Holly Hill, Pauline Liles is moving to Tennessee to live with her daughter's family. Her husband, Jack, is already there, having suffered a stroke that has immobilized him. Pauline, an old hand at yard sales, was hoping to sell most of their stuff before joining him next week.

She advertised the three-day sale in the newspaper, but when she went to the city first thing Wednesday to purchase the $5 permit, it was denied. The city currently allows just two such sales in a year, and city officials said Liles had already met her limit.

Ironically, city
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 04:53 PM
That is so messed up. People are not allowed to hold yard sales anymore?

Around here you have to get permits too. Having permission to hold a yard sale?

I am surprised the government does not require you to get a permit to breathe. The government wants to control every aspect of everyone's lives.

Woman just wanted to sell her stuff off and move to be with her family. That should not be a crime. Nor should she have to get permission to do so.
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 04:59 PM
What can we say, its getting this absurd and more elsewhere too.

Government busy bodies telling people how to live there lifes, when they are just hypocrites.

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 05:09 PM
sounds to me like she needs to hit up ebay and sell her stuff or craigslist, then move away after writing an angry letter to her mayor's office.

That or I would leave the rest of the stuff I don't want on city hall's front steps, but they might get her for littering then

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 07:38 PM
Wow that is ridiculous, not being allowed to have a moving sale on your own property. And how about the cops intimidating the lady, come on.

Liles and her friends describe the encounter with police differently. "He started screaming and yelling. He took his handcuffs out," Sue Baderman said. "Two of them showed up and said, 'We're going to arrest you,' " Roger Ables said. "He boomed, 'Everybody put your stuff down and leave the premises. If you accept one more cent from another person, you'll be fined $250,' " Gail Halfhill said.

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 11:47 PM
Yard sales are the only bastion of basic trade that exists today. Also, I believe that if you get your kids involved it helps in the actual true world development of negotiating skills.

If your local Government asks for a permit to hold a "sale" on your own property you all better come together and fight them. The problem is when no one cares in your neighborhood and they "push" it to need a permit.

There are many people out there who think that "Yard Sale" brings out the Mexicans....straight racist. Depending on where you live.

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 11:55 PM
LOL. All one has to do in this situation is remain calm. Tell the officer that, I will be following my lawful rights, if you insist on arresting me or issuing a fine, I will go to a full jury trial.

People need to tell these idiots we will not take it anymore. Any DA would know this would be a no win case. Do not put up with it people, if you let them do crap like this, when will it end.

Just as someone else said, do we need permits to breathe? The only reason cops are the way they are, is to intimidate people into complying. If you do not comply, they have no power.

Try and find any jury in the US that would actually say guilty. LOL.

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 12:02 AM
I think we should take a look at the "trickle-down" theory here.

What was the catalyst for enacting this law in the first place?

Was there a neighbor holding weekly yard sales?

Were there an inordinate number of yard sales every weekend causing traffic to back up or block the streets?

Were too many lookers parking in the other neighbors yards?

Perhaps the problems caused in the neighborhood could be rectified by having a public space available for yard sales at some vacant corner lot.

Was the law enacted because the neighborhood had a lot of complaints? If so, then it was her own neighbors who initiated the actions that were put in place.

There are always two sides to every story.

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 12:08 AM
reply to post by Alethea

This is very true. Local codes and ordinances are just that. Local codes and ordinances.

One of the easiest ways to participate in government is at the local level.

Most city council and commission meetings where such codes and ordinances are passed are open to the public. The public is encourage to voice their support or opposition to things being proposed for the city councils and commissions to vote on.

Since they vote right there in front of the people who attend these sessions it's a pretty open and transparent process.

Gathered before them very often are the people who are supporting and propossing these things be made codes or ordinances as well as the people who oppose them.

The majority tends to rule when there are no big money interests at stake.

There are no big money interests in stake who fear your yard sale will be putting the Wal-Mart or Home Depot out of business anytime soon.

I go to some of my towns council meetings. Believe me they wish I didn't but I do.

If you don't take an active role in your local government don't cry when your local government does something you don't like.

Democracy only works when everyone takes part. Hint ATS is not the City Council!

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 12:51 AM
I heard about this permit for a yard sale years ago, like around 1991 or so, iw as 16 then, here in my city. I dont know if it was ever enforced. The word was, its becuase it hrust big buisness and the system aka IRS, city isnt making 1 dime on anything you sell, so this was the answer they conjured up..they cannot totaly tellyou you cannot have a tag slae, but with a few strokes of a pen, they can make a law, limitiing it. The system and our tax money hard at work...
too bad its all being used agaiasnt us all.

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 12:35 PM
I did some work for the City of Plano years ago where they put together a web application for getting this permit. I asked at the time about it because it seemed so ludicrous. They said the reason the law came about (there at least) was that there was a few businesses going around renting people's yards to hold these huge sales every weekend. They were pretending to be garage sales, but in fact, they were retailers who were avoiding paying sales and use tax. The city felt that getting a permit was a way to crack down on these types of tax evasions. For what it's worth. *shrug*

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 12:47 PM
reply to post by Jessicamsa

an interesting snippet from the city's official website

Thank you for visiting the Holly Hill Web Site. Holly Hill is a GREAT PLACE FOR FAMILIES and a GREAT PLACE FOR BUSINESS.


Just not a great place for FAMILY BUSINESSES!

All i can say is that this city must be full of a bunch of yuppies if they've allowed city officials to indoctrinate such ridiculous laws.

Glad i don't live there.

And if i did live there, i'd be moving as soon as humanly possible.

I sent an email to the Holy Hill City Council via this link

requesting that they use their website to promote truth in advertising and remove the "A Great Place for Business"

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Snarf]

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 12:49 PM
reply to post by endisnighe

People need to tell these idiots we will not take it anymore. Any DA would know this would be a no win case. Do not put up with it people, if you let them do crap like this, when will it end.

except that she'd lose, because she's violating a clearly printed city ordinance.

It'd be pretty silly to take that approach.

It'd be like telling the Highway Patrol that if they issue you a ticket for doing 75 in a 55, that you'll take it to a jury.

Go ahead.

You'll lose.

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 12:52 PM
We have the same ordinance here: Only two garage sales per home are allowed a year.

There is some logic behind it: This prevents people from making garage sales a business. As in, going to county auctions, storage unit auctions where you can buy someone's entire lot who didn't keep up with their storage bill, and other lots from businesses that were shut down. Then having a garage sale every weekend on their property to sell the wares, tax-free, and driving neighbors crazy who thought they lived in a residential area instead of a resell mall.

Not saying I agree or disagree: Just passing on what I know.

With all that said, I do feel for the woman. It's not like she was trying to cheat the government out of tax revenue or use her home for a business (possibly zoning violation). She just wanted to get rid of her stuff before a move. I don't think the world would end had she been allowed a 3rd garage sale.

Very frustrating but that is government for you. Permits, permits, and more permits.

[edit on 10/31/2009 by AshleyD]

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 12:53 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

wow its gettin cold....

I just totally agreed with you!!!

posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 01:31 PM
It's funny; when people we don't like flout the law with impunity we get all up in arms and cry that laws should be enforced. And I agree, even for little crimes, the law is the law and if you break it, you risk the consequences. Cities that overlook the small laws tend to be cesspools, and when they start enforcing them, all crime goes down.

Unfortunately, as some have pointed out, laws like this are on the books because of people who took advantage and went and ruined it for everyone else. However, no one ever gets mad at those people; they get mad at the people who try to rein in that behavior. (The city doesn't make much from $5 permits, especially when they send out a code enforcement officer to enforce them!)

I'm sure nowhere in that law does it say it doesn't apply to senior citizens who are moving to take care of a husband with a stroke. It applies to her, too, even though I'm sure she's a lovely person.

The reason she flouted the law is compelling, but to me it's no different from illegal aliens who excuse their breaking our laws because they want a better life for their family. Uh, who doesn't? Everybody has a reason for doing what they do, and if we let everybody have their way because they had a reason, we wouldn't have any laws left to enforce.

I suppose when her permit was turned down, she could've petitioned for some kind of waiver or asked a neighbor if they would take out a permit and have a combined yard sale.

As for the differing accounts, that's par for the course. It sounds like they thought they could just get the $250 fine and still have the yard sale; it doesn't work like that. You get the fine AND they shut you down.

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